Making w3 reasonable

Making w3 reasonable

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Stricly speaking, this message is off-topic on this list, but it is
still connected to Gnus usage.  Problem description follows.

Like others here, I like it very much that Gnus can render HTML
inline, and pretend that it is just another form of text.  What I
don't like are the gimmicks that w3 tries to do with the text.
Specifically, it tries to enlarge fonts, use foreground and background
colors, render images, draw tables with fancy glyphs (which, for some
reason, doesn't work out), and several other things.  In my setting,
all of these things turn out very very *very* ugly, and slow things
down.

So, I'd like to configure w3 to (not) do the following things:

* No fonts.  I want w3 to use my default font, and not try to enlarge
  <h[number]> and <font size=...> things.  Also, I want *everything*
  in fix-width.  It is acceptable to render <b> and <i> as `bold' and
  `italic' faces, though.

* No colors.  All colors specified in the document should be
  completely ignored.  This includes all foreground and background
  color settings.  It is acceptable to color HTML links with w3's
  default colors, though.

* No background images.  Background images are per-buffer rather than
  per-extent, and I'd rather not see them.  I haven't yet made my mind
  on whether I don't want to see *any* images in the document, though.

* No fancy table gimmicks.  Apparently w3 is trying to draw the tables
  with "drawing" characters using a face with an associated
  display-table, but for some reason that fails to work and I see
  extremely ugly "q" characters drawing the tables' borders.
  Rendering tables /per se/ is fine, though.

* Not making me end each paragraph with "though."

Thanks a bunch to whoever provides me the answers.

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Thomas Lofgren]

>>>>> "HN" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

    HN> So, I'd like to configure w3 to (not) do the following things:

    HN> * No fonts.  I want w3 to use my default font, and not try to
    HN> enlarge <h[number]> and <font size=...> things.  Also, I want
    HN> *everything* in fix-width.  It is acceptable to render <b> and
    HN> <i> as `bold' and `italic' faces, though.

I believe you can do all of this with
 (setq w3-user-fonts-take-precedence t)
I don't think you'll get bold and italic faces if you do that, though.

    HN> * No colors.  All colors specified in the document should be
    HN> completely ignored.  This includes all foreground and
    HN> background color settings.  It is acceptable to color HTML
    HN> links with w3's default colors, though.

This should do it:
 (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t)
This doesn't guarantee that you have reasonable defaults, though.

    HN> [ XEmacs specific questions snipped ]

    HN> * Not making me end each paragraph with "though."

Hmm, I'm not sure this is possible.  I don't think that's actually a
bug in w3, though.

Hth,
Tom
-- 
T. Lofgren <lofgren@sics.se> - Wherever I lay my .emacs, that's my ${HOME}
Software, not beer

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Robin S. Socha]

* Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

> So, I'd like to configure w3 to (not) do the following things:
>*[1] No fonts.
>* No colors.
>* No background images.
>* No fancy table gimmicks.

The following might do what you want:

;:* $Id: w3-rss.el,v 1.2 1999/10/07 17:15:23 robin Exp $
;:*=======================
;:* This is for W3 to deal with fucked up HTML mails/postings
;;  Mostly stolen from Per Abrahamsen
(setq 
 ;:* Whether to let a document define certain fonts.
 w3-user-fonts-take-precedence t
 ;:* Whether to let a document define certain colors about itself.  
 ;; Like foreground and background colors and pixmaps, color of links
 ;; and visited links, etc.
 w3-user-colors-take-precedence t
 ;:* Whether to let a document specify a CSS stylesheet.
 w3-honor-stylesheets nil
 ;:* Use terminal graphics characters for drawing tables and rules if available.
 w3-use-terminal-characters nil
 ;:* Use terminal graphics characters for tables and rules even on a tty. 
 w3-use-terminal-characters-on-tty nil
 ;:* The character to use to create a horizontal rule.
 ;; Must be the character's code, not a string.  This character is
 ;; replicated across the screen to create a division.  If nil W3 will
 ;; use a terminal graphic character if possible.
 w3-horizontal-rule-char 45
 ;:* Fetch frames - can be:
 ;; nil		no frame display whatsoever
 ;; 'as-links	display frame hyperlinks, but do not fetch them
 ;; 'ask	display frame hyperlinks and ask whether to fetch them
 ;; t	        display frame hyperlinks and fetch them.
 w3-display-frames nil
)

>* Not making me end each paragraph with "though."

(if (string-match "hniksic" user-login-name) 
    (setq w3-suppress-though-at-end-of-line t)
)

Footnotes: 
[1]  Supercite didn't quote the "*". Feature?
-- 
Robin S. Socha
Big. Black. Beautified. <http://socha.net/XEmacs/>

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Jan Vroonhof]

"Robin S. Socha" <robin@socha.net> writes:

> > So, I'd like to configure w3 to (not) do the following things:
> >*[1] No fonts.
> >* No colors.
> >* No background images.
> >* No fancy table gimmicks.
> 
> The following might do what you want:

Does anybody have a canned solution to do this _only_ for mml parts?

Jan

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[David S. Goldberg]

I just did the following, but haven't found any text/html parts to
test it with.  I did:

(make-variable-buffer-local 'w3-user-fonts-take-precedence)
(make-variable-buffer-local 'w3-user-colors-take-precedence)
(make-variable-buffer-local 'w3-honor-stylesheets)
(make-variable-buffer-local 'w3-use-terminal-characters)
(make-variable-buffer-local 'w3-use-terminal-characters-on-tty)
(make-variable-buffer-local 'w3-horizontal-rule-char)
(make-variable-buffer-local 'w3-display-frames)

(defun dsg-no-w3-eye-candy ()
  (setq w3-user-fonts-take-precedence t
	w3-user-colors-take-precedence t
	w3-honor-stylesheets nil
	w3-use-terminal-characters nil
	w3-use-terminal-characters-on-tty nil
	w3-horizontal-rule-char 45
	w3-display-frames nil))

(add-hook 'gnus-article-mode-hook 'dsg-no-w3-eye-candy)

I'm not entirely convinced it will work since I'm not sure the w3
processing actually happens in the *Article* buffer.  I tried looking
at the source, but wasn't able to figure it out for certain.
-- 
Dave Goldberg
Post: The Mitre Corporation\MS B325\202 Burlington Rd.\Bedford, MA 01730
Phone: 781-271-3887
Email: dsg@mitre.org

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Colin Rafferty]

Jan Vroonhof writes:
> "Robin S. Socha" <robin@socha.net> writes:

>> The following might do what you want:

> Does anybody have a canned solution to do this _only_ for mml parts?

(defadvice appropriate-mml-function (around i-hate-html activate compile)
  (let (rss-variable-list)
    ad-do-it))

-- 
Colin

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Jan Vroonhof]

Colin Rafferty <craffert@ms.com> writes:

Hi Colin,

LTNT! (is that because of what I think it is?)

> > Does anybody have a canned solution to do this _only_ for mml parts?
> 
> (defadvice appropriate-mml-function (around i-hate-html activate compile)
>   (let (rss-variable-list)
>     ad-do-it))

I did say _canned_ :-)
Maybe mml should provide an hook for this. Using defadvice always
seems dirty  to me.

Jan

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Colin Rafferty]

Jan Vroonhof writes:
> Colin Rafferty <craffert@ms.com> writes:

> LTNT! (is that because of what I think it is?)

Yes, Eva Louisa Rafferty is 3 months old now.  She was typing in
XEmacs at 2 weeks (well, banging is more accurate).  See the X-Face.

>> > Does anybody have a canned solution to do this _only_ for mml parts?

>> (defadvice appropriate-mml-function (around i-hate-html activate compile)
>> (let (rss-variable-list)
>> ad-do-it))

> I did say _canned_ :-)

Oh well.

> Maybe mml should provide an hook for this. Using defadvice always
> seems dirty  to me.

I agree in general, but temporarily setting variable values is the
kind of thing that defadvice is perfect for.

By the way, the offending function is mm-inline-text.

-- 
Colin

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Kai Großjohann]

David S. Goldberg <dsg@mitre.org> writes:

(Off-topic alert -- the world needs more lerts...)

> (defun dsg-no-w3-eye-candy ()

What's the difference between eye candy and angry fruit salad?

kai
-- 
Life is hard and then you die.

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Hrvoje Niksic]

"Robin S. Socha" <robin@socha.net> writes:

> * Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
> 
> > So, I'd like to configure w3 to (not) do the following things:
> >*[1] No fonts.
> >* No colors.
> >* No background images.
> >* No fancy table gimmicks.
> 
> The following might do what you want:
[...]

I'll try these; thanks.

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Hrvoje Niksic]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 554 bytes --]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

> "Robin S. Socha" <robin@socha.net> writes:
> 
> > * Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:
> > 
> > > So, I'd like to configure w3 to (not) do the following things:
> > >*[1] No fonts.
> > >* No colors.
> > >* No background images.
> > >* No fancy table gimmicks.
> > 
> > The following might do what you want:
> [...]
> 
> I'll try these; thanks.

I've now tried them.  The settings seem to remove most of the junk,
but not all.  For example, this message is still rendered with some
font and color changes:


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From: test
To: test
Subject: x
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:08:31 +0200

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[David S. Goldberg]

I refer to it as angry fruit salad when it looks pretty but is
otherwise harmless.  It's eye candy when it consumes to many
resources.  W3 tends to slow me down, especially for messages that I
end up not caring too much about anyway.

In summary, salad is OK for you, maybe even good.  Candy is not.  And
no, I didn't make this all up myself :-)
-- 
Dave Goldberg
Post: The Mitre Corporation\MS B325\202 Burlington Rd.\Bedford, MA 01730
Phone: 781-271-3887
Email: dsg@mitre.org

Eye Candy vs. Angry Fruit Salad (was:: Re: Making w3 reasonable)

[Per Abrahamsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> What's the difference between eye candy and angry fruit salad?

Eye candy is supposed to improve the look without providing any
functionality.  An angry fruit salad has many strong colors.

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Robert Bihlmeyer]

Hi,

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

> I've now tried them.  The settings seem to remove most of the junk,
> but not all.

It seems to fix the "though", though.

        Robbe

-- 
Robert Bihlmeyer	reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM!
<robbe@orcus.priv.at>	<http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html>

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Kai Großjohann]

David S. Goldberg <dsg@mitre.org> writes:

> I refer to it as angry fruit salad when it looks pretty but is
> otherwise harmless.  It's eye candy when it consumes to many
> resources.

Fascinating.  Angry fruit salad sounded more derogatory to me than eye
candy, so I would have expected the opposite connotation.

kai
-- 
The passive voice should never be used.

Re: Making w3 reasonable

[Glenn Shiffer]

Well, the brain does devote the majority of it's resources to visual
perception, unless we close our eyes :)

G


>>>>> "David" == David S Goldberg <dsg@mitre.org> writes:

    David> I refer to it as angry fruit salad when it looks pretty but
    David> is otherwise harmless.  It's eye candy when it consumes to
    David> many resources.

-- 
Glenn Shiffer		fubar@pobox.com
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