From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/33130 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Per Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: ognus Date: 02 Nov 2000 20:18:16 +0100 Organization: The Church of Emacs Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: <2nwvetu80i.fsf@tiger.jia.vnet> <200010291739.RAA06135@djlvig.dl.ac.uk> <200010302322.XAA08221@djlvig.dl.ac.uk> <200011021735.RAA12726@djlvig.dl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035169294 23509 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 03:01:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 03:01:34 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: Original-Received: from spinoza.math.uh.edu (spinoza.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.18]) by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 369F4D049A for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:04:14 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (lists@Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by spinoza.math.uh.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAB01402; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:03:35 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:02:58 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from mailhost.sclp.com (postfix@66-209.196.61.interliant.com [209.196.61.66] (may be forged)) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11448 for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:02:46 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from sheridan.dina.kvl.dk (sheridan.dina.kvl.dk [130.225.40.227]) by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F5AD049A for ; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 14:03:11 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from ssv2.dina.kvl.dk (ssv2.dina.kvl.dk [130.225.40.226]) by sheridan.dina.kvl.dk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA17566; Thu, 2 Nov 2000 20:03:09 +0100 Original-Received: from abraham by ssv2.dina.kvl.dk with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 13rPsO-0006sk-00; Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:18:16 +0100 Original-To: ding@gnus.org X-Face: +kRV2]2q}lixHkE{U)mY#+6]{AH=yN~S9@IFiOa@X6?GM|8MBp/ Original-Lines: 46 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:33130 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:33130 Dave Love writes: > >>>>> "PA" == Per Abrahamsen writes: > > PA> Well, he used to avoid e.g. Kyle Jones code (which is both > PA> relevant and very high quality, but unassigned). > > Please stop giving a false impression of this issue. Dave, you are being insulting. Generally in your latest messages, and specifically here. I'm *not* trying to make any "impressions", false or true. And I don't care about whatever game you think we are playing, where "impressions" matter. > Here's an indication of serious management problems > [ list of non-FSF copyrights in Gnus] It is *not* in itself a sign of management problems. It is only a sign of management problems, if the project goal includes being bundled with Emacs. It *used to*[1] to be a project goal, a factoid that is relevant when trying to establish what the presents goals are. That the manager is absent so we can't ask him *is* an obvious management problem. I care about Gnus, and I want Gnus to be part of Emacs (more than half of all Gnus messages are posted from the version bundled with Emacs, to bundling probably does more to get Gnus used than any work on beginner friendliness). Now, there is a big difference between "Lars have abandoned the goal of bundling Gnus with Emacs", and "the goal is unchanged, but the current commiteres haven't been teached properly". In the first case, there is nothing you can do (except forking Gnus). In the second case, trying to create a consensus on the list that non-assigned code can be included is a viable goal. Whining doesn't help, carefully phrased non-insulting arguments does. > CVS is not a substitute for management. -- the manual CVS with multiple writers probably require more format management than the previous "send patch to Lars, wait for next snapshot" situation. I did ask Lars to write some commit guidelines and he did, but they should have been more detailed. Footnotes: [1] Past tense!