Hmm.. pop in gnus?

Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Ben Gertzfield]

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*wave* Well, I've been lurking for a while, and I came up with this
question about everyone's favorite news 'n mail reader..

How does one go about using pop as a select method for a group?
Currently, I'm just using a shell-command to run popclient to fetch my
mail, but certainly there's a Better Way to Do It? *grin*

The docs are kind of unclear on this subject; they mention that other
select methods besides nnml and nntp exist, but don't describe how to
go about using them.

Thanks,

Ben
- -- 
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Ben Gertzfield <http://www.imsa.edu/~wilwonka/> Finger me for my public
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Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Kai Grossjohann]

>>>>> Ben Gertzfield writes:

  Ben> How does one go about using pop as a select method for a group?

One doesn't.(*)  One uses POP as a spool file specification.  Here's
how:

(1) Compile movemail with POP support (Emacs configuration option
    --with-pop or something).

(2) Set the environment variable MAILHOST to where the POP server is.

(3) Use the following as nnmail-spool-file: "po:foo" where "foo" is
    your POP account.

I use this, and it works.  There's also pop3.el (comes with Gnus), but
I don't know how to use it.

(*) Sorry for nitpicking, just couldn't resist...

kai
-- 
~/.signature

Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Rich Pieri]

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>>>>> "BG" == Ben Gertzfield <che@zarf-mouse.student.imsa.edu> writes:

BG> How does one go about using pop as a select method for a group?

One does not, nor will one ever.  POP is geared towards one purpose:
transferring mail from a remote server to one's local machine.  It does
this quite well.  But it is a lousy way remotely store and access mail; it
was never intended to be used for this purpose.  POP simply is not IMAP.
Attempting to make POP work like IMAP is doomed to failure; the protocol
was never intended to be used in that fashion.

BG> Currently, I'm just using a shell-command to run popclient to fetch my
BG> mail, but certainly there's a Better Way to Do It? *grin*

One could point the nnmail-movemail-program at the pop3-movemail function
and do the transfer with Lisp functions rather than an external program.
But no, pop3.el will never be transmogrified into nnpop (not by me, anyway
:).  Just dealing with the frequent (every 30 seconds of idle) server
timeouts is enough to discourage any sane programmer.

nnimap is, I hear, coming along.  It might even be ready by the end of the
Q-Gnus development cycle.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | core, which, if exposed due to
A Stone & Webster Company                 | rupture, should not be touched,
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | inhaled, or looked at.

Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Ben Gertzfield]

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Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@PrescientTech.com> writes:

> One does not, nor will one ever.  POP is geared towards one purpose:
> transferring mail from a remote server to one's local machine.  It does
> this quite well.  But it is a lousy way remotely store and access mail; it
> was never intended to be used for this purpose.  POP simply is not IMAP.
> Attempting to make POP work like IMAP is doomed to failure; the protocol
> was never intended to be used in that fashion.

*pout* Hmph. All I wanted was a way to transfer mail from a remote
server to my local machine, but in Lisp :)

> One could point the nnmail-movemail-program at the pop3-movemail function
> and do the transfer with Lisp functions rather than an external program.
> But no, pop3.el will never be transmogrified into nnpop (not by me, anyway
> :).  Just dealing with the frequent (every 30 seconds of idle) server
> timeouts is enough to discourage any sane programmer.

So I take it I should just keep my happy lambda shell-command in
there? :)

Oh, and I guess I should abandon all hope of Lisp-ifying my happy Perl
script that randomizes my signature.. let's see, was I supposed to
car or cdr there? Hmr..

- -- 
Brought to you by the letters M and K and the number 19.
"Wakarimasu ka?" "Ee!" "Wakarimasen ka." "Ee." -- Tenchi Muyo-! 
Ben Gertzfield <http://www.imsa.edu/~wilwonka/> Finger me for my public
PGP key. I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet and YiffNet IRC as Che_Fox.

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Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Rich Pieri]

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>>>>> "BG" == Ben Gertzfield <che@zarf-mouse.student.imsa.edu> writes:

BG> So I take it I should just keep my happy lambda shell-command in
BG> there? :)

Ummm... what part of

>> One could point the nnmail-movemail-program at the pop3-movemail function
>> and do the transfer with Lisp functions rather than an external program.

Did you miss?

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke,
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | get away immediately. Seek shelter
A Stone & Webster Company                 | and cover head.
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | 

Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Paul Franklin]

I'm also a happy user of movemail compiled with POP.

Movemail can perform various forms of automatic authentication (APOP
(similar to rsh/rlogin), KPOP (Kerberos)), depending on what
compile-time options are used.  If I didn't want this support, I'd
probably use pop3-movemail.

APOP is non-trivial though since the APOP code disappeared from the
FSF distribution about Emacs 19.29, and even if you resurrect the
required code, it needs to be installed setuid root.  But I made the
changes locally and I'm reasonably happy with it.

--Paul

>>>>> Kai Grossjohann writes:

 > One uses POP as a spool file specification.  Here's how:

 > (1) Compile movemail with POP support (Emacs configuration option
 >     --with-pop or something).

 > (2) Set the environment variable MAILHOST to where the POP server is.

 > (3) Use the following as nnmail-spool-file: "po:foo" where "foo" is
 >     your POP account.

 > I use this, and it works.  There's also pop3.el (comes with Gnus), but
 > I don't know how to use it.

Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> writes:

> (1) Compile movemail with POP support (Emacs configuration option
>     --with-pop or something).

You can't do it in XEmacs, and the original poster uses XEmacs.
Someone should update XEmacs movemail.c.

> I use this, and it works.  There's also pop3.el (comes with Gnus), but
> I don't know how to use it.

pop3.el should work with XEmacs, but I don't know if anyone was brave
enough to actually try it.

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
"Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct,
not tried it."                                    -- Donald Knuth

Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Christopher Davis]

PF> == Paul Franklin <paul@cs.washington.edu>

 PF> APOP is non-trivial though since the APOP code disappeared from the
 PF> FSF distribution about Emacs 19.29, and even if you resurrect the
 PF> required code, it needs to be installed setuid root.

I think you're confusing APOP (which uses a challenge-response
authentication) with RPOP (which used the rsh/rlogin approach).

Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Paul Franklin]

>>>>> Christopher Davis writes:

 > PF> == Paul Franklin <paul@cs.washington.edu>

 >  PF> APOP is non-trivial though since the APOP code disappeared from the
 >  PF> FSF distribution about Emacs 19.29, and even if you resurrect the
 >  PF> required code, it needs to be installed setuid root.

 > I think you're confusing APOP (which uses a challenge-response
 > authentication) with RPOP (which used the rsh/rlogin approach).

Oops.  You're quite right.

Sorry for any confusion and false hopes I might have given folks.

--Paul

Re: Hmm.. pop in gnus?

[Albrecht Kadlec]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes:

> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@charly.informatik.uni-dortmund.de> writes:
> 
> > (1) Compile movemail with POP support (Emacs configuration option
> >     --with-pop or something).
> 
> You can't do it in XEmacs, and the original poster uses XEmacs.
> Someone should update XEmacs movemail.c.
> 
> > I use this, and it works.  There's also pop3.el (comes with Gnus), but
> > I don't know how to use it.
> 
> pop3.el should work with XEmacs, but I don't know if anyone was brave
> enough to actually try it.
> 

thanks for the warnings. 
I tried it, before I read this, and I use it now, as it seems to work. :

Problems, I had:

The pop support is not at all well documented:

   I had to guess my setting:
      pop3-mailhost "auto.auto.tuwien.ac.at."
      nnmail-movemail-program 'nnmail-pop3-movemail
      nnmail-spool-file "po:albrecht"	; nil: don't ever read mail
;      nnmail-pop-password-required t

  Note that I have to leave nnmail-pop-password-required nil, or
  I'd otherwise be queried twice for the password since 
  pop3-password-required's value is t.

  Especially the pop3-mailhost setting was not easy to find.

  I tried 
      nnmail-movemail-program "movemail"
  but it tried to open the file /usr/spool/mail/po:albrecht :-)
  I guess that's a bug in the wrapper to the movemail program.
  (nnmail-spool-file is appended to rmail-spool-directory, before the
  check for "po:")

could someone add this (and the external-movemail description) to the
doc's ? 

albrecht