That new date header...

That new date header...

[Steinar Bang]

I've seen the thread(s) on it, but haven't paid much attention, until I
suddenly discovered when wading through the backlog of messages in a
filtered out mailing list yesterday.

In such cases it is really really useful to immediatly see how old the
message I'm looking at...:-)

Re: That new date header...

[Richard Riley]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

> I've seen the thread(s) on it, but haven't paid much attention, until I
> suddenly discovered when wading through the backlog of messages in a
> filtered out mailing list yesterday.
>
> In such cases it is really really useful to immediatly see how old the
> message I'm looking at...:-)

Almost everyone agrees with that I think. The issue for most is the animation
not being on. There are also methods documented/wikied on how to do that using
the summary format functions. e.g I adopted the one which says "today"
"yesterday" etc in the left of the summary line.

  (setq  gnus-user-date-format-alist
         ;; Format the date so we can see today/tomorrow quickly.
         ;; See http://emacs.wordpress.com/category/gnus/ for the original.
         '(
           ((gnus-seconds-today) . "Today, %H:%M")
           ((+ 86400 (gnus-seconds-today)) . "Yesterday, %H:%M")
           (604800 . "%A %H:%M") ;;that's one week
           ((gnus-seconds-month) . "%A %d")
           ((gnus-seconds-year) . "%B %d")
           (t . "%B %d '%y"))) ;;this one is used when no other does match
  

Cheers

r.

Re: That new date header...

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com>:

> Almost everyone agrees with that I think. The issue for most is the
> animation not being on.

Er... "animation"...?

Re: That new date header...

[Richard Riley]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

>>>>>> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com>:
>
>> Almost everyone agrees with that I think. The issue for most is the
>> animation not being on.
>
> Er... "animation"...?
>

"works for me" .. ;)

Re: That new date header...

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Richard Riley wrote:

>
> Almost everyone agrees with that I think. The issue for most is the animation
> not being on. There are also methods documented/wikied on how to do that using
> the summary format functions. e.g I adopted the one which says "today"
> "yesterday" etc in the left of the summary line.
>
>   (setq  gnus-user-date-format-alist
>          ;; Format the date so we can see today/tomorrow quickly.
>          ;; See http://emacs.wordpress.com/category/gnus/ for the original.
>          '(
>            ((gnus-seconds-today) . "Today, %H:%M")
>            ((+ 86400 (gnus-seconds-today)) . "Yesterday, %H:%M")
>            (604800 . "%A %H:%M") ;;that's one week
>            ((gnus-seconds-month) . "%A %d")
>            ((gnus-seconds-year) . "%B %d")
>            (t . "%B %d '%y"))) ;;this one is used when no other does match

I think it would made better default.

Lars, would you mind if I change the default value to this?

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: That new date header...

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Lars, would you mind if I change the default value to this?

In the summary buffer?  Yes.  The summary buffer is already too cramped
to actually read what the Subject says.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: That new date header...

[Richard Riley]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:
>
>> Lars, would you mind if I change the default value to this?
>
> In the summary buffer?  Yes.  The summary buffer is already too cramped
> to actually read what the Subject says.

In support of Julien's suggestion  a well formatted and sensible "sent/received"
column is second in importance only to the subject and author IMO.

Re: That new date header...

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> In support of Julien's suggestion a well formatted and sensible
> "sent/received" column is second in importance only to the subject and
> author IMO.

What would a 'sensible "sent/received"' column show?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: That new date header...

[Steinar Bang]

Huh...?  Is that what the date discussion is about?  Adding stuff to the
summary buffer?

I want absolutely no extra clutter in my summary buffer, beyond what is
there today!

When starting the thread, I was referring to the formatting on the Date
header in the message buffer.

Re: That new date header...

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Steinar Bang wrote:

> Huh...?  Is that what the date discussion is about?  Adding stuff to the
> summary buffer?

No. It derived. 

That happens. ;-)

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: That new date header...

[Richard Riley]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> In support of Julien's suggestion a well formatted and sensible
>> "sent/received" column is second in importance only to the subject and
>> author IMO.
>
> What would a 'sensible "sent/received"' column show?

What we were talking about in this thread 1 post back.

Re: That new date header...

[Richard Riley]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

> Huh...?  Is that what the date discussion is about?  Adding stuff to the
> summary buffer?

(oversnipping is a curse .. yes, as is no snipping ;)

> I want absolutely no extra clutter in my summary buffer, beyond what is
> there today!

Possibly others dont. Hence Julien's suggestion about a more user
friendly default.

>
> When starting the thread, I was referring to the formatting on the Date
> header in the message buffer.
>

Yes, and it moved on a little as I pointed out the existing well tested
"sent"/"received" formats used in the summary buffer.

Re: That new date header...

[Richard Riley]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Steinar Bang wrote:
>
>> Huh...?  Is that what the date discussion is about?  Adding stuff to the
>> summary buffer?
>
> No. It derived. 
>
> That happens. ;-)

FWIW, I like the format you suggested as a default. Gnus gods can soon
resurrect the complicated way themselves ;)

User date in summary buffer (was: Re: That new date header...)

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Richard Riley wrote:

> Possibly others dont. Hence Julien's suggestion about a more user
> friendly default.

I've just changed the default format for user-date. I did not made any
use of it nor any change to `gnus-summary-line-format'.

So it's only visible to people using it.

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: User date in summary buffer

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> So it's only visible to people using it.

Oh, right.  Cool.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: User date in summary buffer

[Richard Riley]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Richard Riley wrote:
>
>> Possibly others dont. Hence Julien's suggestion about a more user
>> friendly default.
>
> I've just changed the default format for user-date. I did not made any
> use of it nor any change to `gnus-summary-line-format'.
>
> So it's only visible to people using it.

Thats a good compromise. Although I do feel, from experience with being
a Gnus noob once and now getting emails about it from newer noobs, that
that would be a more sensible "out of the box" default in the summary
too. I always feel that the more experienced users who are resistant to
change can always set it back to their old formats with ease but its a
lot harder for a new adopter to set something like this - its often a
vicious circle .. you dont know what you need to change until you've
done it ...

Re: User date in summary buffer

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Richard Riley wrote:

> Thats a good compromise. Although I do feel, from experience with being
> a Gnus noob once and now getting emails about it from newer noobs, that
> that would be a more sensible "out of the box" default in the summary
> too. I always feel that the more experienced users who are resistant to
> change can always set it back to their old formats with ease but its a
> lot harder for a new adopter to set something like this - its often a
> vicious circle .. you dont know what you need to change until you've
> done it ...

I agree with you, but that's a judgement that I let Lars calls.

(But I volunteer to do the grunt work if a move is to made. :)

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Using &user-date; format spec errors (was: User date in summary buffer)

[Tassilo Horn]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Richard Riley wrote:
>
>> Possibly others dont. Hence Julien's suggestion about a more user
>> friendly default.
>
> I've just changed the default format for user-date. I did not made any
> use of it nor any change to `gnus-summary-line-format'.
>
> So it's only visible to people using it.

Now I wanted to give it a try, but when I use the %&user-date; spec in
my summary buffer line format, I get this error when trying to enter
summary:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function gnus-user-date)
  (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3))
  (insert "<" (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3)) ">")
  (progn (insert "<" (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3)) ">") (point))
  (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "<" (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3)) ">") (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face shadow)))
  (let (gnus-position) (insert gnus-tmp-unread gnus-tmp-replied) (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "┃") (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face default))) (insert (format "%2s" (gnus-user-format-function-s gnus-tmp-header))) (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "┃") (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face default))) (gnus-put-text-property (point) (progn (insert (format "%-23s" (let* ((val ...) (need ...)) (if (> need 0) (concat nil val ...) val)))) (point)) gnus-mouse-face-prop gnus-mouse-face) (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "┃ ") (setq gnus-position (point)) (insert gnus-tmp-thread-tree-header-string) (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face default))) (insert " " gnus-tmp-subject-or-nil " ") (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "<" (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3)) ">") (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face shadow))) (insert "\n") (if gnus-position (gnus-put-text-property gnus-position (1+ gnus-position) (quote gnus-position) t)))
  eval((let (gnus-position) (insert gnus-tmp-unread gnus-tmp-replied) (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "┃") (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face default))) (insert (format "%2s" (gnus-user-format-function-s gnus-tmp-header))) (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "┃") (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face default))) (gnus-put-text-property (point) (progn (insert (format "%-23s" (let* ((val ...) (need ...)) (if (> need 0) (concat nil val ...) val)))) (point)) gnus-mouse-face-prop gnus-mouse-face) (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "┃ ") (setq gnus-position (point)) (insert gnus-tmp-thread-tree-header-string) (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face default))) (insert " " gnus-tmp-subject-or-nil " ") (gnus-add-text-properties (point) (progn (insert "<" (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3)) ">") (point)) (quote (gnus-face t face shadow))) (insert "\n") (if gnus-position (gnus-put-text-property gnus-position (1+ gnus-position) (quote gnus-position) t))))
  gnus-summary-prepare-threads((([332 #("[fb4] Fwd: Bekanntgabe Wahlergebnis Fachbereichsräte" 6 52 (charset iso-8859-15)) "Dekanat FB4 <dekan@uni-koblenz.de>" "Thu, 03 Feb 2011 17:17:11 +0100" "<4D4AD507.6070703@uni-koblenz.de>" nil 268092 11 nil ((To . "fb4@list.uni-koblenz.de"))])))
  gnus-summary-prepare()
  gnus-summary-read-group-1("nnimap+Uni:ml/fb4" nil t nil nil nil)
  gnus-summary-read-group("nnimap+Uni:ml/fb4" nil t nil nil nil nil)
  gnus-group-read-group(nil t)
  gnus-group-select-group(nil)
  gnus-topic-select-group(nil)
  call-interactively(gnus-topic-select-group nil nil)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I grepped the gnus sources, and there's no such function
`gnus-user-date'.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: Using &user-date; format spec errors

[Eric S Fraga]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Richard Riley wrote:
>>
>>> Possibly others dont. Hence Julien's suggestion about a more user
>>> friendly default.
>>
>> I've just changed the default format for user-date. I did not made any
>> use of it nor any change to `gnus-summary-line-format'.
>>
>> So it's only visible to people using it.
>
> Now I wanted to give it a try, but when I use the %&user-date; spec in
> my summary buffer line format, I get this error when trying to enter
> summary:
>
> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function gnus-user-date)

I had this as well a few minutes ago; did a 'git pull' and things are
good again...

-- 
: Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D) in Emacs 24.0.50.1 + No Gnus v0.11

Re: Using &user-date; format spec errors

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

>   (insert "<" (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3)) ">")

There is no mention of "gnus-user-date" in the current sources, so are
you sure you're using the latest Gnus?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Using &user-date; format spec errors

[Tassilo Horn]

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

Hi Lars,

>>   (insert "<" (gnus-user-date (aref gnus-tmp-header 3)) ">")
>
> There is no mention of "gnus-user-date" in the current sources, so are
> you sure you're using the latest Gnus?

Yes, and with the last commit

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
commit 26be1f2820f24c95bc97369e86c6f0bd9b389cea
Author: Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk>
Date:   Thu Feb 3 11:49:30 2011 -0800

    * gnus-start.el (gnus-get-unread-articles): Fix the call to methods
    that have no groups.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

my %&user-date; spec works again.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: Using &user-date; format spec errors

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Feb 03 2011, Tassilo Horn wrote:

> Yes, and with the last commit
>
> commit 26be1f2820f24c95bc97369e86c6f0bd9b389cea
> Author: Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk>
> Date:   Thu Feb 3 11:49:30 2011 -0800
>
>     * gnus-start.el (gnus-get-unread-articles): Fix the call to methods
>     that have no groups.
>
> my %&user-date; spec works again.

The problem is that that commit has nothing to do with that, and I still
got the error on my other computer on my side. I've no clue where it
does come, and even clearing all the compiled file and recompiling Gnus
does not change anything.

I'm clueless. :(

-- 
Julien Danjou
❱ http://julien.danjou.info

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Re: Using &user-date; format spec errors

[Tassilo Horn]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

Hi Julien,

>> commit 26be1f2820f24c95bc97369e86c6f0bd9b389cea
>> Author: Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk>
>> Date:   Thu Feb 3 11:49:30 2011 -0800
>>
>>     * gnus-start.el (gnus-get-unread-articles): Fix the call to methods
>>     that have no groups.
>>
>> my %&user-date; spec works again.
>
> The problem is that that commit has nothing to do with that, and I
> still got the error on my other computer on my side. I've no clue
> where it does come, and even clearing all the compiled file and
> recompiling Gnus does not change anything.

Yes, I couldn't really believe that the commit above has anything to do
with the issue.  But that's the only commit that was pushed between when
I got the `gnus-user-date' error and when it started working again...

In between, the only thing I can remember to have done was adding a new
secondary select method for Gwene.  Then I realized that Gmane also
provides the Gwene groups, and so I removed it again.  But that should
be totally unrelated as well...

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Sent from my Emacs

Re: Using &user-date; format spec errors

[Daniel Dehennin]

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Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> The problem is that that commit has nothing to do with that, and I still
> got the error on my other computer on my side. I've no clue where it
> does come, and even clearing all the compiled file and recompiling Gnus
> does not change anything.
>
> I'm clueless. :(

I'm using bd10f37e4630719920f82122d7c7ae7523567762 and got the error, to
by pass it, I set:

#v+
(setq gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z%I%(%[%4L: %-20,20n%]%) %s\n")
#v-

then restart gnus with 'R', then set:
#v+
(setq gnus-summary-line-format
      (concat
       "%U%R%z"        ;; Marks
       "|" "%-10&user-date;" ;; Date
       "|" " %-18.18a "    ;; From
       "|" "%5k"          ;; Size
       ;; Score
       "|" " %B%s";; Subject
       "\n"
       ))
#v-

then restart gnus with 'R' again. This two times, one my personal desktop
and one on my professional laptop, both with emacs-snapshot 1:20101120-1
From Julien[1].

Regards.


Footnotes: 
[1]  http://emacs.naquadah.org/

-- 
Daniel Dehennin
Récupérer ma clef GPG:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 0x6A2540D1

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