Gnus installation

Gnus installation

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

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Hi,

When installing Gnus, specifying no options, a lot of Lisp files
will be scattered underneath the site-lisp directory.  I considered
over ten years that it's not a good idea.  In addition to this,
there's another problem that ``./configure; make install'' will
never install .el files.  WDYT?

I made a patch for both of them.  I think a similar change should
also be applied to the v5-10 branch.


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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/x-patch, Size: 1908 bytes --]

--- aclocal.m4~	2004-05-20 08:02:34 +0000
+++ aclocal.m4	2005-09-30 01:14:57 +0000
@@ -87,7 +87,7 @@
         datadir="\$(prefix)/lib"
         lispdir="\$(datadir)/${EMACS_FLAVOR}/site-packages/lisp/gnus"
     else
-    lispdir="\$(datadir)/${EMACS_FLAVOR}/site-lisp"
+    lispdir="\$(datadir)/${EMACS_FLAVOR}/site-lisp/gnus"
     fi
     for thedir in share lib; do
 	potential=
@@ -95,7 +95,7 @@
            if test "$EMACS_FLAVOR" = "xemacs"; then
 	       lispdir="\$(prefix)/${thedir}/${EMACS_FLAVOR}/site-packages/lisp/gnus"
            else
-               lispdir="\$(datadir)/${EMACS_FLAVOR}/site-lisp"
+               lispdir="\$(datadir)/${EMACS_FLAVOR}/site-lisp/gnus"
            fi
 	   break
 	fi
@@ -113,7 +113,7 @@
     if test "$EMACS_FLAVOR" = "xemacs"; then
       etcdir="\$(lispdir)/../../etc"
     else
-    etcdir="\$(lispdir)/../etc"
+    etcdir="\$(lispdir)/../../etc"
     fi
   fi
   AC_MSG_RESULT($etcdir)
--- lisp/Makefile.in~	2004-05-20 09:43:25 +0000
+++ lisp/Makefile.in	2005-09-30 01:14:57 +0000
@@ -29,7 +29,7 @@
 clever some l: gnus-load.el
 	$(EMACS_COMP) -f dgnushack-compile
 
-install: install-el install-elc 
+install: install-el-elc 
 
 install-el: gnus-load.el
 	$(SHELL) $(top_srcdir)/mkinstalldirs $(lispdir)
@@ -51,6 +51,21 @@
 	  $(INSTALL_DATA) $$p $(lispdir)/$$p; \
 	done
 
+install-el-elc: clever
+	rm -f dgnushack.elc
+	$(SHELL) $(top_srcdir)/mkinstalldirs $(lispdir)
+	echo " $(INSTALL_DATA) gnus-load.el $(lispdir)/gnus-load.el"
+	$(INSTALL_DATA) gnus-load.el $(lispdir)/gnus-load.el
+	for p in *.elc; do \
+	  q=`basename $$p c`; \
+	  if [ -f "$(srcdir)/$$q" ]; then \
+	    echo " $(INSTALL_DATA) $$q $(lispdir)/$$q"; \
+	    $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/$$q $(lispdir)/$$q; \
+	  fi; \
+	  echo " $(INSTALL_DATA) $$p $(lispdir)/$$p"; \
+	  $(INSTALL_DATA) $$p $(lispdir)/$$p; \
+	done
+
 uninstall:
 	for p in *.elc; do \
 	  rm -f "$(lispdir)/$$p"; \

Re: Gnus installation

[Simon Josefsson]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
> When installing Gnus, specifying no options, a lot of Lisp files
> will be scattered underneath the site-lisp directory.  I considered
> over ten years that it's not a good idea.  In addition to this,
> there's another problem that ``./configure; make install'' will
> never install .el files.  WDYT?

FWIW, I like this.  Emacs do search for files beneath site-lisp by
default, right?

Re: Gnus installation

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> In <ilu4q82iy2o.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> Simon Josefsson wrote:

> Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

>> When installing Gnus, specifying no options, a lot of Lisp files
>> will be scattered underneath the site-lisp directory.  I considered
>> over ten years that it's not a good idea.

> FWIW, I like this.  Emacs do search for files beneath site-lisp by
> default, right?

Yes, indeed.  Especially in the Emacs 18 era, people might not
have preferred to use subdirectories since they had to be added
to load-path manually, though we have now subdirs.el which adds
subdirectories to load-path automatically.  The reason I don't
like it is because I have many files underneath the site-lisp
directory.  So, I always use `--with-lispdir=site-lisp/gnus'.
There's also another usefulness in this; I only do `rm -fr gnus'
when I need to remove old Gnus files, for example.  Furthermore,
the Emacs version of Gnus is installed in the gnus subdirectory.

>> In addition to this,
>> there's another problem that ``./configure; make install'' will
>> never install .el files.  WDYT?

It won't be a matter, if people always use ``make; make install''.
However, those who fully trust Gnus might do that, and they will
not be able to get meaningful backtrace when they are betrayed.

Anyway, I'm not troubled with them at all, though.

Re: Gnus installation

[Simon Josefsson]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

>>>>>> In <ilu4q82iy2o.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> Simon Josefsson wrote:
>
>> Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:
>
>>> When installing Gnus, specifying no options, a lot of Lisp files
>>> will be scattered underneath the site-lisp directory.  I considered
>>> over ten years that it's not a good idea.
>
>> FWIW, I like this.  Emacs do search for files beneath site-lisp by
>> default, right?
>
> Yes, indeed.  Especially in the Emacs 18 era, people might not
> have preferred to use subdirectories since they had to be added
> to load-path manually, though we have now subdirs.el which adds
> subdirectories to load-path automatically.  The reason I don't
> like it is because I have many files underneath the site-lisp
> directory.  So, I always use `--with-lispdir=site-lisp/gnus'.
> There's also another usefulness in this; I only do `rm -fr gnus'
> when I need to remove old Gnus files, for example.  Furthermore,
> the Emacs version of Gnus is installed in the gnus subdirectory.

Ok.  You have my vote.

>>> In addition to this,
>>> there's another problem that ``./configure; make install'' will
>>> never install .el files.  WDYT?
>
> It won't be a matter, if people always use ``make; make install''.
> However, those who fully trust Gnus might do that, and they will
> not be able to get meaningful backtrace when they are betrayed.

And further, *.el contain online documentation, so they really should
be installed IMHO.

Re: Gnus installation

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> In <ilu3bnlh5v4.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> Simon Josefsson wrote:

> Ok.  You have my vote.

Thanks.  But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much
responses to this.  Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to
the site-lisp/ directory, not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/
for instance?  Or, do most people always specify the
--with-lispdir configure option?  If there's no response after
this, I will stop this argument.

BTW, I noticed changing the default Lisp directory in which Gnus
is installed might cause Lisp shadows, and what is worse, Emacs
prefers site-lisp/ rather than site-lisp/gnus/.  So, I will have
to make the installer remove those shadows (or issue a warning)
when I change the default lispdir.

>>>> In addition to this,
>>>> there's another problem that ``./configure; make install'' will
>>>> never install .el files.  WDYT?
>>
>> It won't be a matter, if people always use ``make; make install''.
>> However, those who fully trust Gnus might do that, and they will
>> not be able to get meaningful backtrace when they are betrayed.

> And further, *.el contain online documentation, so they really should
> be installed IMHO.

I did it in both the trunk and the v5-10 branch.

Re: Gnus installation

[NAKAJI Hiroyuki]

No news is good news. Don't mind about small "I agree". I found much more
"agree" than "disagree".

You have my vote, too.

>>>>> In <b4mbr27wkoo.fsf@jpl.org> 
>>>>>	Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> wrote:
> >>>>> In <ilu3bnlh5v4.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> Simon Josefsson wrote:

> > Ok.  You have my vote.

> Thanks.  But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much
> responses to this.  Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to
> the site-lisp/ directory, not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/
> for instance?  Or, do most people always specify the
> --with-lispdir configure option?  If there's no response after
> this, I will stop this argument.

Yes, I always specify an annoying option (sometimes forget)
"--with-lispdir=.../site-lisp/gnus". I'm (We are?) waiting for your
commit.

Do it ASAP, please.
-- 
NAKAJI Hiroyuki

Re: Gnus installation

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

>>>>> In <87mzlrqw57.fsf@roddy.c3922.takamatsu-nct.ac.jp>
>>>>>	NAKAJI Hiroyuki wrote:

> No news is good news. Don't mind about small "I agree". I found much more
> "agree" than "disagree".

Indeed. ;-)

> You have my vote, too.

>>>>>> In <b4mbr27wkoo.fsf@jpl.org> 
>>>>>>	Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> wrote:

>> Thanks.  But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much
>> responses to this.  Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to
>> the site-lisp/ directory, not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/
>> for instance?  Or, do most people always specify the
>> --with-lispdir configure option?  If there's no response after
>> this, I will stop this argument.

> Yes, I always specify an annoying option (sometimes forget)
> "--with-lispdir=.../site-lisp/gnus". I'm (We are?) waiting for your
> commit.

> Do it ASAP, please.

Thank you for following up.  I'll prepare to do that (including
the measure to cope with Lisp shadows).

Re: Gnus installation

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:41:59 +0900, Katsumi wrote:

>>>>>> In <ilu3bnlh5v4.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> Ok.  You have my vote.

> Thanks.  But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much
> responses to this.  Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to
> the site-lisp/ directory, not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/
> for instance?  Or, do most people always specify the
> --with-lispdir configure option?  If there's no response after
> this, I will stop this argument.

For what it's worth, I've always followed the README-file in the
distribution, where it says:

,----
| Do not say "make install".  I repeat, do *NOT* say "make install".  If
| you say "make install" and then complain about things not working,
| I'll be very annoyed.  If you say "make install" and things happen to
| work, that's all fine and dandy for you, but it's quite likely that it
| won't.
`----

Which, I guess, I've taken literally.

So I do not have an opinion on this :-)


  Best regards,

-- 
 "It's kind of important to have peace on earth."             Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Gnus installation

[Simon Josefsson]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> writes:

>>>>>> In <ilu3bnlh5v4.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> Simon Josefsson wrote:
>
>> Ok.  You have my vote.
>
> Thanks.  But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much
> responses to this.  Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to
> the site-lisp/ directory, not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/
> for instance?  Or, do most people always specify the
> --with-lispdir configure option?  If there's no response after
> this, I will stop this argument.

I think most people who use the CVS version never use 'make install'.

> BTW, I noticed changing the default Lisp directory in which Gnus
> is installed might cause Lisp shadows, and what is worse, Emacs
> prefers site-lisp/ rather than site-lisp/gnus/.  So, I will have
> to make the installer remove those shadows (or issue a warning)
> when I change the default lispdir.

Ouch, that is a problem.  Maybe a 'make remove-installed-shadows' or
something to remove any installed shadows in site-lisp/?

Re: Gnus installation

[Jochen Küpper]

Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka-NvgVpDro27E@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Thanks. But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much responses
> to this. Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to the site-lisp/
> directory, not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/ for instance? Or, do
> most people always specify the --with-lispdir configure option? If
> there's no response after this, I will stop this argument.

Normally I install Gnus in a "private" installation tree underneath
$HOME, so I specify --with-lispdir anyway. (While Emacs is typically
the globally installed one.)

Nevertheless I would also prefer to get a default gnus/ subdir when
installing in site-lisp, though. Maybe it would make sense to also add
/gnus/ to specified lispdirs...

>> And further, *.el contain online documentation, so they really should
>> be installed IMHO.

I would second that as well.

Greetings,
Jochen
-- 
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit                http://www.Jochen-Kuepper.de
    Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité                GnuPG key: CC1B0B4D
        (Part 3 you find in my messages before fall 2003.)

Re: Gnus installation

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Oct 03 2005, Adam Sjøgren wrote:

> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:41:59 +0900, Katsumi wrote:
>> Thanks.  But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much
>> responses to this.  

No objection signals agreement, I think. ;-)

>> Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to the site-lisp/ directory,
>> not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/ for instance?  Or, do most
>> people always specify the --with-lispdir configure option?

I usually run this for the trunk build...

  ./configure --prefix=/usr/local \
    --with-lispdir=/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/No_Gnus
  make && make install

(with .nosearch in No_Gnus; i.e. the user has to specify that he wants
bleeding edge explicitely.)

... and this for the v5-10 branch:

  ./configure --prefix=/usr/local \
    --with-lispdir=/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/gnus-5-10
  make && make install

`make && make install' always installed the *.el files, so I didn't
quite understand the problem you're referring to.  IMO, the default
should be to install the *.el files.

> ,----
> | Do not say "make install".  I repeat, do *NOT* say "make install".  If
> | you say "make install" and then complain about things not working,
> | I'll be very annoyed.  If you say "make install" and things happen to
> | work, that's all fine and dandy for you, but it's quite likely that it
> | won't.
> `----

There are different opinions about this, see the thread around
<news:m33cjx7rbr.fsf@quimbies.gnus.org> (fetched this MID from another
thread; I hope it's correct).

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Gnus installation

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:41:59 +0900, Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> said:

Katsumi> Thanks.  But I was a bit surprised that there weren't much
Katsumi> responses to this.  Do most people install Gnus Lisp files to
Katsumi> the site-lisp/ directory, not a subdirectory, site-lisp/gnus/
Katsumi> for instance?  Or, do most people always specify the
Katsumi> --with-lispdir configure option?  If there's no response after
Katsumi> this, I will stop this argument.

Wrong crowd ;-)  Most of us are probably CVS users and simply do
"make" and point emacs to the lisp dir in the CVS checkout.  Heh.

-- 
"In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
 and much more difficult to find."  -- Terry Pratchett

Re: Gnus installation

[Wes Hardaker]

>>>>> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 08:41:59 +0900, Katsumi Yamaoka <yamaoka@jpl.org> said:

Katsumi> BTW, I noticed changing the default Lisp directory in which
Katsumi> Gnus is installed might cause Lisp shadows, and what is
Katsumi> worse, Emacs prefers site-lisp/ rather than site-lisp/gnus/.
Katsumi> So, I will have to make the installer remove those shadows
Katsumi> (or issue a warning) when I change the default lispdir.

Option 2: have configure check for site-lisp/gnus.el and don't add the
gnus subdir if the parent gnus.el exists...

-- 
"In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
 and much more difficult to find."  -- Terry Pratchett

Re: Gnus installation

[Katsumi Yamaoka]

Hi,

I've made changes in the trunk.  Thanks a lot to all for the
followups.

Now the new installer installs the Lisp files to the
.../site-lisp/gnus/ directory by default, detects the other Gnus
installations which will shadow the latest one, and issues a
warning.  You can then remove those shadows manually or remove
them using `make remove-installed-shadows'.

I'll also install those changes to the v5-10 branch after bugs
are all fixed if any.

Regards,