From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/23488 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Yaitskov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: some mail annoyances Date: 23 Jun 1999 10:20:55 -0400 Organization: Just me at home Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035161210 2230 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 00:46:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 00:46:50 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: Original-Received: from farabi.math.uh.edu (farabi.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.57]) by sclp3.sclp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05439 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (lists@Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by farabi.math.uh.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAB15934; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:21:37 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:22:08 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (root@sclp3.sclp.com [204.252.123.139]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28480 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:21:56 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by sclp3.sclp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05409 for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from LUCY ([24.65.62.24]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990623142055.KZKW23155.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@LUCY> for ; Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:20:55 -0700 Original-To: Ding In-Reply-To: Per Abrahamsen's message of "23 Jun 1999 09:42:49 +0200" Original-Lines: 52 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070088 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.88) XEmacs/21.2 (Chiyoda) Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:23488 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:23488 Per Abrahamsen wrote: > Having different paradigms for mail and news groups removes much of > the benefit from having a single program. For me at least, there are a lot of benefits even if I do treat mail and news differently. E.g. I do not have to remember different sets of keystrokes for getting in and out of folders, etc. This may sound stupid, but is a big advantage for me. Another example is, I read mail and news in Russian. I had to customize just one program for this, not two. Etc. None of this has to do with models, yet are big advantages for me. I am just trying to make a point that it is not necessary to treat mail and news in exactly the same way to benefit from having a single program. But of course, there are other things that *do* have to do with paradigms, e.g. message threadig in mailing lists like this one. So you're probably right, that it is better to treat both the same. > > Hence I think making gnus as intuitive as possible for both is "a > > good thing". > > It was never a design goal to implement the traditional mail reading > paradigm in Gnus (which is what people mean by "intuitive"). While > you _can_ set it up to be used that way, it will be a fight. I > strongly recommend either using a tool that was designed for that > purpose, or even better, start using Gnus as it was designed. The > news readign paradigm _is_ very powerful, and you will not have to > switch paradigm each time you switch between mail and news groups any > more. Would be very interesting (for me at least) to learn how different people use gnus for mail, how they deal with saving, expiring, etc. > > Whereas I do not have a strong opinion about renumbering the messages, > > I honestly don't see how the impossibility of renumbering usenet > > messages is relevant to the option of renumbering mail messages in > > one's own folder. > > Again, it is about how you think about the messages, not about the > particular feature. If you think about the numbers as something you > should be concerned about, then you think the wrong way. Gnus is > designed to make the numbers irrelevant, because it is designed for > news where you can't change them. BTW. What happens when the article numbers *do* overflow? They are bound to overflow eventually, aren't they? -- Cheers, -Dima.