* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
[not found] ` <76d4p5g22s.fsf@dev-d01.ppllc.com>
@ 2008-04-04 15:19 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding
On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
>>>>>> "SB" == Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:
> SB> Have you tried sniffing the group opening with eg. wireshark to
> SB> see if the delay is simply network related?
>
> When I enter a traditional nntp-based newsgroup (e.g., comp.emacs.help)
> I see some quick 'nntp read' messages and then I'm in. Depending on the
> number of messages that have been posted since the last time I entered
> the newsgroup, I will see more or less 'nntp read' messages.
>
> But when I entered gmane.discuss just now, with only two messages posted
> since I last checked it yesterday, I still saw a huge amount of 'nntp
> read' traffic. It's almost as if Gnus is downloading the entire group
> and doesn't know how much I've already seen.
Set nntp-record-commands to t and check if the commands in the
*nntp-log* buffer are significantly different e.g. for gnu.emacs.help
and gmane.emacs.help.
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-04 15:19 ` Slow Access from Gnus Reiner Steib
@ 2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman
2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Jake Colman @ 2008-04-04 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gmane-discuss; +Cc: ding
>>>>> "RS" == Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
RS> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
>>>>>>> "SB" == Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:
SB> Have you tried sniffing the group opening with eg. wireshark to
SB> see if the delay is simply network related?
>>
>> When I enter a traditional nntp-based newsgroup (e.g., comp.emacs.help)
>> I see some quick 'nntp read' messages and then I'm in. Depending on the
>> number of messages that have been posted since the last time I entered
>> the newsgroup, I will see more or less 'nntp read' messages.
>>
>> But when I entered gmane.discuss just now, with only two messages posted
>> since I last checked it yesterday, I still saw a huge amount of 'nntp
>> read' traffic. It's almost as if Gnus is downloading the entire group
>> and doesn't know how much I've already seen.
RS> Set nntp-record-commands to t and check if the commands in the
RS> *nntp-log* buffer are significantly different e.g. for
RS> gnu.emacs.help and gmane.emacs.help.
Very, very odd. The commands are identical.
For example:
20080404T131502.278 news.gmane.org GROUP gmane.emacs.gnus.general
20080404T131502.400 news.gmane.org XOVER 1-66679
20080404T131611.177 free.teranews.com GROUP comp.emacs
20080404T131611.296 free.teranews.com XOVER 1-69787
Yes, it appears that for every gmane group it actually rereads the
entire "active file" (do I know what I'm talkig about?) or something.
Even if I do a catch-up in my gmane group it rereads everything. If I
enter comp.emacs twice in a row, the second is almost instantaneous.
Entering the same gmane group twice will take the same amount of time
each time as it does all those kilobytes of nntp reads.
--
Jake Colman
Director of Software Development
Principia Partners LLC
101 West Elm Street
Suite 620
Conshohocken, PA 19428
+1 (610) 755-9786
www.principiapartners.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman
@ 2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 17:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding
On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
> 20080404T131502.278 news.gmane.org GROUP gmane.emacs.gnus.general
> 20080404T131502.400 news.gmane.org XOVER 1-66679
> 20080404T131611.177 free.teranews.com GROUP comp.emacs
> 20080404T131611.296 free.teranews.com XOVER 1-69787
>
> Yes, it appears that for every gmane group it actually rereads the
> entire "active file" (do I know what I'm talkig about?) or something.
Gnus fetches the whole NOV (overview) data if `gnus-fetch-old-headers'
is t. Try setting it to some number, say 100. Does it help?
Then you should see something like this in the *nntp-log* buffer:
[DATE...] news.gmane.org XOVER 66578-66679
(See the function `nntp-retrieve-headers-with-xover')
In contrast to "normal" news servers, Gmane doesn't expire articles so
the overview might become really large.
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman
2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Jake Colman @ 2008-04-04 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gmane-discuss; +Cc: ding
>>>>> "RS" == Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
RS> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
>> 20080404T131502.278 news.gmane.org GROUP gmane.emacs.gnus.general
>> 20080404T131502.400 news.gmane.org XOVER 1-66679
>> 20080404T131611.177 free.teranews.com GROUP comp.emacs
>> 20080404T131611.296 free.teranews.com XOVER 1-69787
>>
>> Yes, it appears that for every gmane group it actually rereads the
>> entire "active file" (do I know what I'm talkig about?) or something.
RS> Gnus fetches the whole NOV (overview) data if
RS> `gnus-fetch-old-headers' is t. Try setting it to some number,
RS> say 100. Does it help?
RS> Then you should see something like this in the *nntp-log* buffer:
RS> [DATE...] news.gmane.org XOVER 66578-66679
RS> (See the function `nntp-retrieve-headers-with-xover')
RS> In contrast to "normal" news servers, Gmane doesn't expire
RS> articles so the overview might become really large.
WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for 'gnus-fetch-old-headers'
was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the group virtually
instantaneously. Is there any practical downside to specifying a number
instead of 't'? What setting do _you_ use?
--
Jake Colman
Director of Software Development
Principia Partners LLC
101 West Elm Street
Suite 620
Conshohocken, PA 19428
+1 (610) 755-9786
www.principiapartners.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman
@ 2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim
2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman
0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-04 19:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding
On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
> WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for
> 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the
> group virtually instantaneously. Is there any practical downside to
> specifying a number instead of 't'?
You might not see old posting in the threads...
,----[ (info "(gnus)Filling In Threads") ]
| `gnus-fetch-old-headers'
| If non-`nil', Gnus will attempt to build old threads by fetching
| more old headers--headers to articles marked as read. If you would
| like to display as few summary lines as possible, but still
| connect as many loose threads as possible, you should set this
| variable to `some' or a number. If you set it to a number, no
| more than that number of extra old headers will be fetched. In
| either case, fetching old headers only works if the back end you
| are using carries overview files--this would normally be `nntp',
| `nnspool', `nnml', and `nnmaildir'. Also remember that if the
| root of the thread has been expired by the server, there's not
| much Gnus can do about that.
|
| This variable can also be set to `invisible'. This won't have any
| visible effects, but is useful if you use the `A T' command a lot
| (*note Finding the Parent::).
`----
> What setting do _you_ use?
I've set it to t, but I fetch all newsgroups groups from my local
leafnode server, which does expire Gmane groups, so I don't experience
the slowness. Maybe we should warn about this setting when using
news.gmane.org. Do others see the slow access on Gmane with as well
with `gnus-fetch-old-headers' set to t?
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib
@ 2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim
2008-05-24 13:09 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman
1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Sven Joachim @ 2008-04-04 20:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding
On 2008-04-04 21:54 +0200, Reiner Steib wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
>
>> WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for
>> 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the
>> group virtually instantaneously. Is there any practical downside to
>> specifying a number instead of 't'?
>
> You might not see old posting in the threads...
>
> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Filling In Threads") ]
> | `gnus-fetch-old-headers'
> | If non-`nil', Gnus will attempt to build old threads by fetching
> | more old headers--headers to articles marked as read. If you would
> | like to display as few summary lines as possible, but still
> | connect as many loose threads as possible, you should set this
> | variable to `some' or a number. If you set it to a number, no
> | more than that number of extra old headers will be fetched. In
> | either case, fetching old headers only works if the back end you
> | are using carries overview files--this would normally be `nntp',
> | `nnspool', `nnml', and `nnmaildir'. Also remember that if the
> | root of the thread has been expired by the server, there's not
> | much Gnus can do about that.
> |
> | This variable can also be set to `invisible'. This won't have any
> | visible effects, but is useful if you use the `A T' command a lot
> | (*note Finding the Parent::).
> `----
>
>> What setting do _you_ use?
>
> I've set it to t, but I fetch all newsgroups groups from my local
> leafnode server, which does expire Gmane groups, so I don't experience
> the slowness. Maybe we should warn about this setting when using
> news.gmane.org.
Seems like a good idea, see below.
> Do others see the slow access on Gmane with as well
> with `gnus-fetch-old-headers' set to t?
I just tried with gmane.linux.debian.devel.bugs.general (HUGE!), where I
have two dozen ticked articles. After ~1 minute Emacs still was
displaying something like "nntp read: 92167k" (yes, ca. 90 Megabyte!),
then I got tired and typed C-g. Fortunately, memory footprint dropped
to a reasonable level afterwards.
Sven
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim
@ 2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman
2008-04-06 20:23 ` Reiner Steib
1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Jake Colman @ 2008-04-06 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gmane-discuss; +Cc: ding
>>>>> "RS" == Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
RS> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
>> WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for
>> 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter
>> the group virtually instantaneously. Is there any practical
>> downside to specifying a number instead of 't'?
RS> You might not see old posting in the threads...
Is there a way to set the gnus-fetch-old-headers variable one way for
gmane groups and another way for standard nntp groups. (those which
expire their articles)? Maybe some sort of pre- and post-hook?
--
Jake Colman
Director of Software Development
Principia Partners LLC
101 West Elm Street
Suite 620
Conshohocken, PA 19428
+1 (610) 755-9786
www.principiapartners.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman
@ 2008-04-06 20:23 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-04-06 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jake Colman; +Cc: ding
[ Stripping gmane.dicuss ]
On Sun, Apr 06 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
> Is there a way to set the gnus-fetch-old-headers variable one way for
> gmane groups and another way for standard nntp groups.
Probably like this:
(add-to-list 'gnus-parameters '("^gmane\\." (gnus-fetch-old-headers 500)))
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: Slow Access from Gnus
2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim
@ 2008-05-24 13:09 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-05-24 13:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jake Colman; +Cc: gmane-discuss, ding
On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Sven Joachim wrote:
> On 2008-04-04 21:54 +0200, Reiner Steib wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 04 2008, Jake Colman wrote:
>>> WOW! What a difference! My prior setting for
>>> 'gnus-fetch-old-headers' was t. I set it to 500 and I now enter the
>>> group virtually instantaneously.
[...]
>> Maybe we should warn about this setting when using news.gmane.org.
>
> Seems like a good idea, see below.
I added a warning in the documentation. Maybe we could also warn when
entering the group.
>> Do others see the slow access on Gmane with as well
>> with `gnus-fetch-old-headers' set to t?
>
> I just tried with gmane.linux.debian.devel.bugs.general (HUGE!), where I
> have two dozen ticked articles. After ~1 minute Emacs still was
> displaying something like "nntp read: 92167k" (yes, ca. 90 Megabyte!),
> then I got tired and typed C-g. Fortunately, memory footprint dropped
> to a reasonable level afterwards.
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
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2008-04-04 15:19 ` Slow Access from Gnus Reiner Steib
2008-04-04 17:21 ` Jake Colman
2008-04-04 17:56 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-04 19:18 ` Jake Colman
2008-04-04 19:54 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-04 20:07 ` Sven Joachim
2008-05-24 13:09 ` Reiner Steib
2008-04-06 18:03 ` Jake Colman
2008-04-06 20:23 ` Reiner Steib
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