Re: Hashcash on by default?

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Reiner Steib]

On Sat, Apr 22 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> BTW,
>>   (eval-when-compile
>>     [...]
>>     (require 'hashcash))
>> looks odd.  Why is it inside `eval-when-compile'?
>
> Probably so that hashcash won't be loaded unless you really want to
> use it?

Why is hashcash treated differently than say canlock or ecomplete?

,----
| ELISP> (featurep 'message)
| nil
| ELISP> (require 'message)
| message
| ELISP> (featurep 'canlock)
| t
| ELISP> (featurep 'hashcash)
| nil
| ELISP> (featurep 'ecomplete)
| t
`----

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> Why is hashcash treated differently than say canlock or ecomplete?

Yes, that doesn't make much sense.  I've moved it from the
eval-when-compile. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Hashcash on by default?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

I just switched on async hashcash generation:

(setq message-generate-hashcash t)

I think it's kinda neat how those payment lines appear in the buffer
asynchronously.  :-)  But perhaps we should just switch this on by
default?  I mean, if you don't have hashcash installed, it won't do
anything, and if you do have hashcash installed, you probably want to
use it.  And since the impact now is so low (what with it being
asynchronous and all), I think it makes sense.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Miles Bader]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> I just switched on async hashcash generation:
>
> (setq message-generate-hashcash t)

Does _anyone_ actually use hashcash?

-Miles
-- 
"An atheist doesn't have to be someone who thinks he has a proof that there
can't be a god.  He only has to be someone who believes that the evidence
on the God question is at a similar level to the evidence on the werewolf
question."  [John McCarthy]

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:42:15 +0900, Miles wrote:

> Does _anyone_ actually use hashcash?

SpamAssassin 3.0+ has hashcash-support, so a lot of people (probably
unknowingly) do.

 <http://spamassassin.apache.org/full/3.0.x/dist/doc/Mail_SpamAssassin_Plugin_Hashcash.html>
 <http://www.hashcash.org/mail/spam/spamassassin/>


  Best regards,

-- 
 "You know, if the sun was an oboe, what would you do?"       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Manoj Srivastava]

On 15 Apr 2006, Miles Bader outgrape:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>> I just switched on async hashcash generation:
>>
>> (setq message-generate-hashcash t)
>
> Does _anyone_ actually use hashcash?

        I do. All the time. Spamassassin seems to give mails with
 hashcash a boost, so, I figured, why not do it?

        manoj
-- 
"A University without students is like an ointment without a fly." Ed
Nather, professor of astronomy at UT Austin
Manoj Srivastava   <srivasta@acm.org>  <http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Simon Josefsson]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> I just switched on async hashcash generation:
>
> (setq message-generate-hashcash t)
>
> I think it's kinda neat how those payment lines appear in the buffer
> asynchronously.  :-)  But perhaps we should just switch this on by
> default?  I mean, if you don't have hashcash installed, it won't do
> anything, and if you do have hashcash installed, you probably want to
> use it.  And since the impact now is so low (what with it being
> asynchronous and all), I think it makes sense.

I like that.  I've changed the default.

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[gdt]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>
>> I just switched on async hashcash generation:
>>
>> (setq message-generate-hashcash t)
>>
>> I think it's kinda neat how those payment lines appear in the buffer
>> asynchronously.  :-)  But perhaps we should just switch this on by
>> default?  I mean, if you don't have hashcash installed, it won't do
>> anything, and if you do have hashcash installed, you probably want to
>> use it.  And since the impact now is so low (what with it being
>> asynchronous and all), I think it makes sense.
>
> I like that.  I've changed the default.

I just updated and tested this.  When following up to an article in
nnimap, I got two hashcash lines inserted (correctly) after a few
seconds.

When sending mail by typing 'm' in *Group*, and then entering a name,
I found that hashcash was generated non-async when I hit ^C^C.  Is
this the intended behavior?

It would be neat to begin generating hashcash once the user has
stopped editing the To:/CC: fields for a few seconds, and regenerate
any missing entries after the next edit/pause cycle, and then do a
final insert/generate on sending.  This would always be correct, and
minimize delays - but sounds like a lot of work, especially for
something that could be done in the background as part of sending.

-- 
	Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com>

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Simon Josefsson]

gdt@work.lexort.com writes:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>
>> Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
>>
>>> I just switched on async hashcash generation:
>>>
>>> (setq message-generate-hashcash t)
>>>
>>> I think it's kinda neat how those payment lines appear in the buffer
>>> asynchronously.  :-)  But perhaps we should just switch this on by
>>> default?  I mean, if you don't have hashcash installed, it won't do
>>> anything, and if you do have hashcash installed, you probably want to
>>> use it.  And since the impact now is so low (what with it being
>>> asynchronous and all), I think it makes sense.
>>
>> I like that.  I've changed the default.
>
> I just updated and tested this.  When following up to an article in
> nnimap, I got two hashcash lines inserted (correctly) after a few
> seconds.
>
> When sending mail by typing 'm' in *Group*, and then entering a name,
> I found that hashcash was generated non-async when I hit ^C^C.  Is
> this the intended behavior?

I think so.

> It would be neat to begin generating hashcash once the user has
> stopped editing the To:/CC: fields for a few seconds, and regenerate
> any missing entries after the next edit/pause cycle, and then do a
> final insert/generate on sending.  This would always be correct, and
> minimize delays - but sounds like a lot of work, especially for
> something that could be done in the background as part of sending.

Yup.  I don't think it can be done in background though, ^C^C must be
able to report errors to the user, and if the sending process is
asynchronous, this will be more difficult.

However, having it notice changes in the To/Cc fields would be good
enough, I think.  Do you want to work on it?

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[gdt]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> gdt@work.lexort.com writes:
>
>> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>>
>> It would be neat to begin generating hashcash once the user has
>> stopped editing the To:/CC: fields for a few seconds, and regenerate
>> any missing entries after the next edit/pause cycle, and then do a
>> final insert/generate on sending.  This would always be correct, and
>> minimize delays - but sounds like a lot of work, especially for
>> something that could be done in the background as part of sending.
>
> Yup.  I don't think it can be done in background though, ^C^C must be
> able to report errors to the user, and if the sending process is
> asynchronous, this will be more difficult.
>
> However, having it notice changes in the To/Cc fields would be good
> enough, I think.  Do you want to work on it?

I probably won't have spare time, and there's the assignment issue to
be worked through.  But I'll send a patch for todo describing the idea.

-- 
	Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com>

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Raymond Scholz]

· Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:

> I like that.  I've changed the default.

I kind of dislike the fact that I'm required to install some piece of
external software (not even part of my Linux distribution SuSE 10.0)
being able to send mail now...  Is this really a good idea?

Cheers, Ray
-- 
Hfr fgebat rapelcgvba!

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Raymond Scholz <ray-2006@zonix.de> writes:

> I kind of dislike the fact that I'm required to install some piece of
> external software (not even part of my Linux distribution SuSE 10.0)
> being able to send mail now...  Is this really a good idea?

That shouldn't be necessary.  If hashcash isn't installed, it
shouldn't use it.  *looks at code*

Oh, the default should probably be

(defcustom message-generate-hashcash (executable-find "hashcash")
  ...)

Now fixed.  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On 18 Apr 2006, larsi@gnus.org wrote:

> Raymond Scholz <ray-2006@zonix.de> writes:
>
>> I kind of dislike the fact that I'm required to install some piece of
>> external software (not even part of my Linux distribution SuSE 10.0)
>> being able to send mail now...  Is this really a good idea?
>
> That shouldn't be necessary.  If hashcash isn't installed, it
> shouldn't use it.  *looks at code*
>
> Oh, the default should probably be
>
> (defcustom message-generate-hashcash (executable-find "hashcash")
> ...)
>
> Now fixed.  

Cool.  I hope this popularizes Hashcash more.  It's one of the best
ham indicators available right now!

Ted

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Apr 18 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> Oh, the default should probably be
>
> (defcustom message-generate-hashcash (executable-find "hashcash")
>   ...)
>
> Now fixed.  

Shouldn't it be nil or t according to the custom type?  I've changed
it to (if (executable-find "hashcash") t).

BTW,
  (eval-when-compile
    [...]
    (require 'hashcash))
looks odd.  Why is it inside `eval-when-compile'?

And the entry functions should be autoloaded, I think.
`hashcash-wait-async' isn't.

Bye, Reiner.

P.S.: I already wrote this in
      <v9slodb89s.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> on Sunday but the
      message disappeared.  Resending (Tuesday) didn't succeed
      neither.  (Both via Gmane)
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Steve Youngs]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 741 bytes --]

* Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

  > On Tue, Apr 18 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
  >> Oh, the default should probably be
  >> 
  >> (defcustom message-generate-hashcash (executable-find "hashcash")
  >> ...)
  >> 
  >> Now fixed.  

  > Shouldn't it be nil or t according to the custom type?  I've changed
  > it to (if (executable-find "hashcash") t).

Overkill.  The lisp engine won't care if you spell "t" as
"/usr/local/bin/hashcash". :-)

-- 
|---<Steve Youngs>---------------<GnuPG KeyID: A94B3003>---|
|                 I am Dyslexic of Borg.                   | 
|    Fusistance is retile. Your arse will be laminated.    |
|------------------------------------<steve@sxemacs.org>---|

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 257 bytes --]

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Apr 19 2006, Steve Youngs wrote:

> * Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>   > Shouldn't it be nil or t according to the custom type?  I've changed
>   > it to (if (executable-find "hashcash") t).
>
> Overkill.  The lisp engine won't care if you spell "t" as
> "/usr/local/bin/hashcash". :-)

I seem to recall seeing "mismatch" message in customize because of
such defaults.  But I might be wrong.  Anyhow, an unneeded `if' won't
hurt.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Simon Josefsson]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> On Tue, Apr 18 2006, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
>
>> Oh, the default should probably be
>>
>> (defcustom message-generate-hashcash (executable-find "hashcash")
>>   ...)
>>
>> Now fixed.  
>
> Shouldn't it be nil or t according to the custom type?  I've changed
> it to (if (executable-find "hashcash") t).
>
> BTW,
>   (eval-when-compile
>     [...]
>     (require 'hashcash))
> looks odd.  Why is it inside `eval-when-compile'?

Perhaps bit rot because hashcash.el wasn't always included in Gnus.

> And the entry functions should be autoloaded, I think.
> `hashcash-wait-async' isn't.

Yup.

> Bye, Reiner.
>
> P.S.: I already wrote this in
>       <v9slodb89s.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> on Sunday but the
>       message disappeared.  Resending (Tuesday) didn't succeed
>       neither.  (Both via Gmane)
> -- 
>        ,,,
>       (o o)
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Hashcash on by default?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> BTW,
>   (eval-when-compile
>     [...]
>     (require 'hashcash))
> looks odd.  Why is it inside `eval-when-compile'?

Probably so that hashcash won't be loaded unless you really want to
use it?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen