PGG and EasyPG (was: pgg-gpg doesn't work at all [fix included])

[Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc>]

[Sorry for the late reply.]
 
On Sat, Jul 28 2007, Daiki Ueno wrote:

>>>>>>	Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:
>> >> Reverting PGG in the Gnus trunk to the version in v5-10 is fine with
>> > 3. Including EasyPG to the Emacs CVS (not to the Gnus CVS).
>
>> Why "not to the Gnus CVS"?
>
> Because EasyPG is not a helper program of Gnus (as I said again and
> again).  Indeed EasyPG contains a functions which can be used to
> implement sign and encryption support in Gnus though, most users use
> other features such as transparent encryption.

[Quoting added:]
>> >  1. Reverting PGG in the Gnus trunk to the version in v5-10.
>> >  1a. Fixing bugs caused by 1. and testing...
>> >  2. Synch'ing Gnus in the Emacs CVS to the Gnus trunk.
>> >  3. Including EasyPG to the Emacs CVS (not to the Gnus CVS).
[...]
>> > While Miles seems to be only interested in 1 & 2, I suggest that 3
>> > should be done before 2 for a smooth transition.
[...]
>> Given that with 1 we try to get rid of one variant of PGG/Gnus code, I
>> don't quite understand your concerns (about 1a?).
>
> 1a.

Could you be more specific?

>> Getting through the copyright process may take quite a long time, so I
>> don't think we should delay items 1, 1a and 2 while waiting for (or
>> working on) 3.
>
> Sure.

Fine. [I'll come back to this later on.]

On Sun, Jul 29 2007, Daiki Ueno wrote:

>>>>>>	Daiki Ueno <ueno@unixuser.org> wrote:
>> > We want to sync Gnus trunk with Emacs trunk.  If EasyPG should become
>> > the default sign and encryption support in Gnus (obsoleting PGG) ---
>> > and as I understand this is your suggestion ---,
>
> "the default" is somewhat confusing phrase.  I'd suggest that EasyPG
> should become "the preferred" sign and encryption support in Gnus.
> i.e. Gnus will use it rather than PGG, if available.

No matter whether we say "default" or "preferred": I think it's not a
good thing to give the users (in the use cases (b) and (d), see below)
an inferior encryption support if a better one is available.

[From the other mail:]
> I don't want to import EasyPG to Gnus CVS.

I don't want to do this against your will.  However I still don't
understand you objections.  Once the sync `Emacs trunk <-> Gnus trunk'
is in place, we'd get it with quite little extra work.  We could put
it in a separate directory to make it clear that "EasyPG is not a
helper program of Gnus" but a program on it's own.

> Anyway,
>
>> > we should have the EasyPG package included in both Gnus trunk and
>> > Emacs trunk.
>
> I don't think so.  IIUC, you can suppose the following use cases:
>
> (a) Emacs 21/22 (release)

Those users will (have to) use PGG, not EasyPG as no support for it is
in the v5-10 code base.  CMIIW.

> (b) Emacs 21/22 (release) + Gnus CVS

Those users will use PGG.  EasyPG only if they care enough to install
EasyPG separately.

> (c) Emacs CVS + Gnus CVS

Only these users will get EasyPG by default (once it is included in
Emacs CVS).

Additionally: In the future (assuming Gnus 5.12 will be released
before Emacs 23 and EasyPG won't be included in the Emacs 22.x
series) we have:

(d) Emacs 21/22 (release) + Gnus 5.12 (release)

Those users will use PGG.  EasyPG only if they care enough to install
EasyPG separately.

> The users who benefit from including EasyPG in Gnus CVS are, using (b)
> and too lazy to install EasyPG as a separate package.  I assume that
> they are in the minority compared to others[1].  

I only signing or encryption quite rarely.  I don't have installed
EasyPG yet, but I'd surely use it if it was installed with Gnus or
Emacs (currently I use the Emacs 22 branch + Gnus trunk).

> Is it not enough to display warning messages when PGG is going to be
> used instead of EasyPG?

If we claim EasyPG is the "preferred" method and even display warnings
if it's not present, I feel uncomfortable if it's not included in the
Gnus distribution.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/