From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/65115 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reiner Steib Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: PGG and EasyPG (was: pgg-gpg doesn't work at all [fix included]) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:33:26 +0200 Message-ID: References: <06937cc5-86bc-4c13-9779-5b1acab5cc6d@well-done.deisui.org> <876448f20z.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <832a1fc1-35da-426c-a66b-f1b5f850ae92@well-done.deisui.org> <4e687c1c-a602-4248-a49f-535fa0372646@well-done.deisui.org> Reply-To: Reiner Steib NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1188552869 14174 80.91.229.12 (31 Aug 2007 09:34:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:34:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@gnus.org, Miles Bader To: Daiki Ueno Original-X-From: ding-owner+M13626@lists.math.uh.edu Fri Aug 31 11:34:26 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IR2tW-0002od-DS for ding-account@gmane.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:34:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IR2t0-0000ZL-EF; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:33:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IR2sy-0000Z0-AS for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:33:52 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IR2su-0007mQ-6K for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 04:33:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.uni-ulm.de ([134.60.1.11]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1IR2st-0005k0-00 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:33:47 +0200 Original-Received: from bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de (bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de [134.60.41.37]) by mail.uni-ulm.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l7V9XgmC021694; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:33:43 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: from localhost (bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de [134.60.41.37]) by bridgekeeper.physik.uni-ulm.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8128B12C5B; Fri, 31 Aug 2007 11:33:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Face: P05mdcZT&lL[-s2=mw~RsllZ0zZAb?vdE}.s (Daiki Ueno's message of "Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:18:35 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/22.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-DCC-PacNet-SG-Metrics: poseidon 1358; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:65115 Archived-At: [Sorry for the late reply.] On Sat, Jul 28 2007, Daiki Ueno wrote: >>>>>> Reiner Steib wrote: >> >> Reverting PGG in the Gnus trunk to the version in v5-10 is fine with >> > 3. Including EasyPG to the Emacs CVS (not to the Gnus CVS). > >> Why "not to the Gnus CVS"? > > Because EasyPG is not a helper program of Gnus (as I said again and > again). Indeed EasyPG contains a functions which can be used to > implement sign and encryption support in Gnus though, most users use > other features such as transparent encryption. [Quoting added:] >> > 1. Reverting PGG in the Gnus trunk to the version in v5-10. >> > 1a. Fixing bugs caused by 1. and testing... >> > 2. Synch'ing Gnus in the Emacs CVS to the Gnus trunk. >> > 3. Including EasyPG to the Emacs CVS (not to the Gnus CVS). [...] >> > While Miles seems to be only interested in 1 & 2, I suggest that 3 >> > should be done before 2 for a smooth transition. [...] >> Given that with 1 we try to get rid of one variant of PGG/Gnus code, I >> don't quite understand your concerns (about 1a?). > > 1a. Could you be more specific? >> Getting through the copyright process may take quite a long time, so I >> don't think we should delay items 1, 1a and 2 while waiting for (or >> working on) 3. > > Sure. Fine. [I'll come back to this later on.] On Sun, Jul 29 2007, Daiki Ueno wrote: >>>>>> Daiki Ueno wrote: >> > We want to sync Gnus trunk with Emacs trunk. If EasyPG should become >> > the default sign and encryption support in Gnus (obsoleting PGG) --- >> > and as I understand this is your suggestion ---, > > "the default" is somewhat confusing phrase. I'd suggest that EasyPG > should become "the preferred" sign and encryption support in Gnus. > i.e. Gnus will use it rather than PGG, if available. No matter whether we say "default" or "preferred": I think it's not a good thing to give the users (in the use cases (b) and (d), see below) an inferior encryption support if a better one is available. [From the other mail:] > I don't want to import EasyPG to Gnus CVS. I don't want to do this against your will. However I still don't understand you objections. Once the sync `Emacs trunk <-> Gnus trunk' is in place, we'd get it with quite little extra work. We could put it in a separate directory to make it clear that "EasyPG is not a helper program of Gnus" but a program on it's own. > Anyway, > >> > we should have the EasyPG package included in both Gnus trunk and >> > Emacs trunk. > > I don't think so. IIUC, you can suppose the following use cases: > > (a) Emacs 21/22 (release) Those users will (have to) use PGG, not EasyPG as no support for it is in the v5-10 code base. CMIIW. > (b) Emacs 21/22 (release) + Gnus CVS Those users will use PGG. EasyPG only if they care enough to install EasyPG separately. > (c) Emacs CVS + Gnus CVS Only these users will get EasyPG by default (once it is included in Emacs CVS). Additionally: In the future (assuming Gnus 5.12 will be released before Emacs 23 and EasyPG won't be included in the Emacs 22.x series) we have: (d) Emacs 21/22 (release) + Gnus 5.12 (release) Those users will use PGG. EasyPG only if they care enough to install EasyPG separately. > The users who benefit from including EasyPG in Gnus CVS are, using (b) > and too lazy to install EasyPG as a separate package. I assume that > they are in the minority compared to others[1]. I only signing or encryption quite rarely. I don't have installed EasyPG yet, but I'd surely use it if it was installed with Gnus or Emacs (currently I use the Emacs 22 branch + Gnus trunk). > Is it not enough to display warning messages when PGG is going to be > used instead of EasyPG? If we claim EasyPG is the "preferred" method and even display warnings if it's not present, I feel uncomfortable if it's not included in the Gnus distribution. Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/