Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

[David Kastrup]

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Gnus v5.11
GNU Emacs 22.0.50.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.10.3)
 of 2006-09-19 on rothera, modified by Debian

Hi, the toolbar icons that get used for connect/disconnect are
actually icons for "connected/disconnected".  That is, they don't
visualize an action, but a state.  The customary usage of these
connected/disconnected icons is to display the _current_ state, not
the state that is reached after pressing the button.

The icon images should be swapped, since otherwise they are confusing
to users accustomed to them.


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-- 
David

Re: Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

[Leo]

* [2006.12.12 10:10 +0100] David Kastrup wrote:
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Hi, the toolbar icons that get used for connect/disconnect are
> actually icons for "connected/disconnected".  That is, they don't
> visualize an action, but a state.  The customary usage of these
> connected/disconnected icons is to display the _current_ state, not
> the state that is reached after pressing the button.
>
> The icon images should be swapped, since otherwise they are confusing
> to users accustomed to them.

I also found this weird and inconsistent with other apps when I was
trying to make a tango icon set for Emacs. For example, in my laptop
NetworkManager shows a connected icon when it is connected to the
internet.

-- 
Leo <sdl.web AT gmail.com>                         (GPG Key: 9283AA3F)

Re: Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Dec 12 2006, David Kastrup wrote:

> Hi, the toolbar icons that get used for connect/disconnect are
> actually icons for "connected/disconnected".  

The names of the corresponding Gnome icons are stock_connect.png and
stock_disconnect.png so I assumed that they fit, but I don't have a
strong opinion on this.

> That is, they don't visualize an action, but a state.  The customary
> usage of these connected/disconnected icons is to display the
> _current_ state, not the state that is reached after pressing the
> button.
>
> The icon images should be swapped, since otherwise they are confusing
> to users accustomed to them.

Do you have an URL to some Gnome or GTK guidelines?  Or some concrete
examples of Gnome/Gtk applications using stock_connect.png and
stock_disconnect.png?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

[Stephen Berman]

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:08:36 +0100 Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 12 2006, David Kastrup wrote:
>
>> Hi, the toolbar icons that get used for connect/disconnect are
>> actually icons for "connected/disconnected".  
>
> The names of the corresponding Gnome icons are stock_connect.png and
> stock_disconnect.png so I assumed that they fit, but I don't have a
> strong opinion on this.
>
>> That is, they don't visualize an action, but a state.  The customary
>> usage of these connected/disconnected icons is to display the
>> _current_ state, not the state that is reached after pressing the
>> button.
>>
>> The icon images should be swapped, since otherwise they are confusing
>> to users accustomed to them.

Another argument for swapping them is that they visually contradict
the minor mode lighter "plugged/unplugged", i.e., when it says
"plugged" in the mode line you see an unplugged plug in the tool bar
and vice versa.

Steve Berman

Re: Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

[David Kastrup]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane <at> imap.cc> writes:

> 
> On Tue, Dec 12 2006, David Kastrup wrote:
> 
> > Hi, the toolbar icons that get used for connect/disconnect are
> > actually icons for "connected/disconnected".  
> 
> The names of the corresponding Gnome icons are stock_connect.png and
> stock_disconnect.png so I assumed that they fit, but I don't have a
> strong opinion on this.
> 
> > That is, they don't visualize an action, but a state.  The customary
> > usage of these connected/disconnected icons is to display the
> > _current_ state, not the state that is reached after pressing the
> > button.
> >
> > The icon images should be swapped, since otherwise they are confusing
> > to users accustomed to them.
> 
> Do you have an URL to some Gnome or GTK guidelines?  Or some concrete
> examples of Gnome/Gtk applications using stock_connect.png and
> stock_disconnect.png?

I think Evolution uses them.  Maybe also Thunderbird.

Perhaps one can normally display the current state, but display the changed
state on mouse-over.  It might or might not make it easier to discern what will
happen when pressing.

-- 
David

Re: Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Dec 20 2006, David Kastrup wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane <at> imap.cc> writes:
>> Do you have an URL to some Gnome or GTK guidelines?  Or some concrete
>> examples of Gnome/Gtk applications using stock_connect.png and
>> stock_disconnect.png?
>
> I think Evolution uses them.  Maybe also Thunderbird.

Okay, evolution uses an icon very similar to stock_connect.png when
"online".  (But not stock_disconnect.png when offline).  Thunderbird
uses different icons.  Both use the logic you suggested.

> Perhaps one can normally display the current state, but display the
> changed state on mouse-over.  It might or might not make it easier
> to discern what will happen when pressing.

I've now exchanged the icons and added :help texts to make it more
clear:

    (gnus-agent-toggle-plugged "disconnect" t
			       :help "Gnus is currently unplugged.  Click to work online."
     			       :visible (and gnus-agent (not gnus-plugged)))
    (gnus-agent-toggle-plugged "connect" t
			       :help "Gnus is currently plugged.  Click to work offline."
     			       :visible (and gnus-agent gnus-plugged))

(Committed in v5-10).

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Strange toolbar icon for connect/disconnect

[David Kastrup]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> I've now exchanged the icons and added :help texts to make it more
> clear:

Thanks,

-- 
David Kastrup