From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/58308 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: standard-display-european Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:48:48 +0200 Sender: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20040813023151.GF18130@boetes.org> <20040819230543.GB16069@boetes.org> Reply-To: Reiner Steib NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1093117762 11561 80.91.224.253 (21 Aug 2004 19:49:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:49:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 21 21:49:12 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1BybrT-0002gp-00 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:49:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Bybvq-00016d-OB for gebp-emacs-pretest-bug@gmane.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:53:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Bybvo-00016Y-94 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:53:40 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1Bybvn-00016M-Ga for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:53:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Bybvn-00016J-CC for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:53:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [134.60.1.1] (helo=mail-new.rz.uni-ulm.de) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.34) id 1BybrA-0006eV-Pp; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 15:48:53 -0400 Original-Received: from lumberjack.physik.uni-ulm.de (lumberjack.physik.uni-ulm.de [134.60.10.173]) by mail.uni-ulm.de (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i7LJmn8t012300; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:48:49 +0200 (MEST) Original-Received: by lumberjack.physik.uni-ulm.de (Postfix, from userid 170) id E9BE318175; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:48:48 +0200 (CEST) Mail-Followup-To: rms@gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org Original-To: rms@gnu.org X-Face: 'bg&jY[8V'W&:=~6w"|>}#4/T; w~36ei4NNMyKRR.a$n=$|sWFPF1y]a\>6kc\*#GN]UDM| Ywv, vbL^XF1nIp\:F=$Ei2o&mEe:%N~, :3]vtQ~s9u$9izmX$IF@VgGl7/, ^dbuM<3|AO2}.%|%?kZ 2Y=@\U!~cll^=8Z9ihKq%wmUe1Ky(#kl3T'>Qk0Ia3mCBsTk?E(,X User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-DCC-RollaNet-Metrics: gemini 1040; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail.uni-ulm.de id i7LJmn8t012300 X-BeenThere: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: emacs-pretest-bug.gnu.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-pretest-bug-bounces+gebp-emacs-pretest-bug=gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:3746 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:58308 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:58308 On Sat, Aug 21 2004, Richard Stallman wrote: > `standard-display-european' is obsolete (IIRC at least since Emacs > 20.7). You should probably use (set-language-environment "Latin-1= ") > or omit it completely (Emacs does the right thing when your locales > are set up correctly). > > It is only semi-obsolete. It is still supposed to work. > Many init files used to use it, and I would guess many still do. My impression is that most people don't really want `standard-display-european'. They only have it in their init files because it was useful (for Europeans) in Emacs 19 (or earlier?). There were many reports in newsgroups during the last years about "Emacs doesn't treat Umlaut characters correctly"; IIRC all were perfectly happy after removing `standard-display-european' from their init file. > Therefore, we should still fix the crash, and also this bug: > > `standard-display-european' leads to incorrect behavior of Gnus. > > Can you fix this one? I'm afraid I can't (therefore Cc-ing the Gnus list; maybe someone has an idea). I will try to provide more details: * Is this behavior in Emacs (doesn't involve Gnus) correct? - Start: emacs -q -no-site-file -eval '(standard-display-european t)' - Display the HELLO file (`C-h h') - Copy the line "German (Deutsch) Guten Tag, Gr=FC=DF Gott" to the kill ring (using `M-w'). Do `M-x describe-char RET' on the "=FC" =3D=3D> [1= ]. =20 - Create a new buffer, yank the line and do `M-x describe-char RET' on the "=FC" =3D=3D> [2]. The char is eight-bit-graphic now instead of Latin-1. It is also considered as "syntax:[...] whitespace" which leads is not useful: `M-f' stops at each non-latin char, ispell and flyspell fail, ... * With Gnus: When using Gnus in with (standard-display-european t), the char also is eight-bit-graphic. When quoting such an article (or yanking the line from HELLO), Gnus will prompt the user for a charset on sending ("Charset used in the article:") and many users pick a random value. IIRC the resulting article may also be encoded incorrectly even when answering "iso-8859-1", but I'm not able to reproduce this at the moment. Bye, Reiner. [1] ,----[ HELLO ] | character: =FC (04374, 2300, 0x8fc, U+00FC) | charset: latin-iso8859-1 | (Right-Hand Part of Latin Alphabet 1 (ISO/IEC 8859-1): ISO-IR-100= .) | code point: 124 | syntax: w which means: word | category: l:Latin =20 | buffer code: 0x81 0xFC | file code: ESC 0x2C 0x41 0x7C (encoded by coding system iso-2022-7bit= -unix) | display: by this font (glyph code) | -Misc-Fixed-Medium-R-Normal--14-130-75-75-C-70-ISO8859-1 (0xFC) `---- [2] (I have replaced the eight-bit-graphic `\373' in this mail) ,----[ *latin* ] | character: \374 (0374, 252, 0xfc) | charset: eight-bit-graphic (8-bit graphic char (0xA0..0xFF)) | code point: 252 | syntax: which means: whitespace | buffer code: 0xFC | file code: not encodable by coding system iso-latin-1 | display: by display table entry [?\374] (see below) |=20 | The display table entry is displayed by these fonts (glyph codes): | \374: -Misc-Fixed-Medium-R-Normal--14-130-75-75-C-70-ISO8859-1 (0xFC) `---- --=20 ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW http://rsteib.home.pages.de= /