second(ary) imap server

second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Muck]

Hi

I just added a second nnimap select method, but I'd like gnus NOT to
contact this server until I tell it to check for new mail. Ideally not
even when i hit "g" to get new messages, but only when I request new
mail from a group on that second folder using M-g.

Any hints how to do that?

Thank you,
Andi

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 10 Mar 2001, Andreas Muck wrote:

> I just added a second nnimap select method, but I'd like gnus NOT to
> contact this server until I tell it to check for new mail.

If it's a seconday server, then you might be out of luck.  I think
Gnus always contacts secondary servers to ask them for new groups.

But the first thing to try is to frob the levels.  The variable
gnus-activate-level says that groups with this level (or a smaller
number) are activated on startup.  If you `S l' all groups from a
server to a (numerically) higher value, then Gnus will not try to
check these groups.

If Gnus contacts the server anyway, then you might have to take it out
of gnus-secondary-select-methods and to create a foreign server from
the server buffer.

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Muck]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>On 10 Mar 2001, Andreas Muck wrote:
>
>> I just added a second nnimap select method, but I'd like gnus NOT to
>> contact this server until I tell it to check for new mail.
>
>If it's a seconday server, then you might be out of luck.  I think
>Gnus always contacts secondary servers to ask them for new groups.

Yes, I guess you're right.

>But the first thing to try is to frob the levels.  The variable
>gnus-activate-level says that groups with this level (or a smaller
>number) are activated on startup.  If you `S l' all groups from a
>server to a (numerically) higher value, then Gnus will not try to
>check these groups.

I did this - set gnus-activate-level to 3 and the group to 5. The
group was not activated at startup, but Gnus still contacted the
server.

>If Gnus contacts the server anyway, then you might have to take it out
>of gnus-secondary-select-methods and to create a foreign server from
>the server buffer.

But this did the trick (combined with gnus-activate-level). Cool!
Looks like gnus-group-get-new-news respects gnus-activate-level too,
cos it didn't contact the server even when I hit "g".

That's just what I wanted!

Thank you :)
Andi

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 11 Mar 2001, Andreas Muck wrote:

> But this did the trick (combined with gnus-activate-level). Cool!
> Looks like gnus-group-get-new-news respects gnus-activate-level too,
> cos it didn't contact the server even when I hit "g".

Right.  You can do `5 g' to query those groups, too.

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Oeldenberger]

On 10 Mar 2001, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE wrote:
> On 10 Mar 2001, Andreas Muck wrote:
> 
>> I just added a second nnimap select method, but I'd like gnus NOT
>> to contact this server until I tell it to check for new mail.
> 
> If it's a seconday server, then you might be out of luck.  I think
> Gnus always contacts secondary servers to ask them for new groups.

You could switch that off:

,----
| (setq gnus-read-active-file nil
|       gnus-check-new-newsgroups nil)
`----

> But the first thing to try is to frob the levels.  The variable
> gnus-activate-level says that groups with this level (or a smaller
> number) are activated on startup.  If you `S l' all groups from a
> server to a (numerically) higher value, then Gnus will not try to
> check these groups.
> 
> If Gnus contacts the server anyway, then you might have to take it
> out of gnus-secondary-select-methods and to create a foreign server
> from the server buffer.

.. when I tried this myself (a few weeks ago) I found using a foreign
server is a lot slower on updating than putting it in
gnus-secondary-select-methods.

Can somebody explain this?

cu,
Andreas

-- 
Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 11 Mar 2001, Andreas Oeldenberger wrote:

> .. when I tried this myself (a few weeks ago) I found using a
> foreign server is a lot slower on updating than putting it in
> gnus-secondary-select-methods.

???  I can't explain this.

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Oeldenberger]

On 11 Mar 2001, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE wrote:
> On 11 Mar 2001, Andreas Oeldenberger wrote:
>> .. when I tried this myself (a few weeks ago) I found using a
>> foreign server is a lot slower on updating than putting it in
>> gnus-secondary-select-methods.
> 
> ???  I can't explain this.

a: server in gnus-secondary-select-methods
b: server created in server buffer

The obvious difference  is that gnus is printing the message
a: "nnimap: Checking mailbox ..." vs. b: "nnimap: Updating info for ..."
and G e on groups is showing a: "nnimap:foo" vs. b: "bar".

Why no method in the second case? hmm interesting..

any hints?

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Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 12 Mar 2001, Andreas Oeldenberger wrote:

> The obvious difference is that gnus is printing the message a:
> "nnimap: Checking mailbox ..." vs. b: "nnimap: Updating info for
> ..."  and G e on groups is showing a: "nnimap:foo" vs. b: "bar".
> 
> Why no method in the second case? hmm interesting..

Can you change the second case, so that you get the correct string
there?

    "nnimap:bar"

If your server is:

    (nnimap "bar"
      (nnimap-address "xyzzy")
      ...other.server.parameters.go.here...)

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Oeldenberger]

On 12 Mar 2001, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE wrote:
> On 12 Mar 2001, Andreas Oeldenberger wrote:
> 
>> Why no method in the second case? hmm interesting..
> 
> Can you change the second case, so that you get the correct string
> there?
> 
>     "nnimap:bar"
> 
> If your server is:
> 
>     (nnimap "bar"
>       (nnimap-address "xyzzy")
>       ...other.server.parameters.go.here...)

when i use G e to change this i get a message "Attemptet use of a
nil select method" after hitting C-c C-c

-- 
Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 12 Mar 2001, Andreas Oeldenberger wrote:

> when i use G e to change this i get a message "Attemptet use of a
> nil select method" after hitting C-c C-c

Hm.  I don't know what the problem might be.  Hm.  Maybe the string
only works if you have a secondary select method?

Anyone?

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Muck]

(Sorry for the mail reply, I meant a followup. So here it is again)

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>On 12 Mar 2001, Andreas Oeldenberger wrote:
>
>> when i use G e to change this i get a message "Attemptet use of a
>> nil select method" after hitting C-c C-c
>
>Hm.  I don't know what the problem might be.  Hm.  Maybe the string
>only works if you have a secondary select method?

What string? You mean (nnimap "bar"...? No, it works for foreign
server just fine. That's just what I have as foreign server:

(nnimap "newsmaster-foo"
	(nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))

Only difference is, that I didn't edit it using "G e" because I didn't
know about it. I added the server in the server buffer and then edited
it there.

Which brings up the next problem: what if I want to read more groups
from the same server, but use a *different* login for other groups?
The login information for imap.foo.bar is read from .authinfo, I guess
I can't use different logins for the same server, can I?

Andi

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 16 Mar 2001, Andreas Muck wrote:

> What string? You mean (nnimap "bar"...? No, it works for foreign
> server just fine. That's just what I have as foreign server:
> 
> (nnimap "newsmaster-foo"
> 	(nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))

I think things will be faster if you `G e' on the group and replace
this parenthesized expression with the following simple string:

"nnimap:newsmaster-foo"

Btw, you can use different logins on the same news host by creating
different foreign (or secondary) servers in Gnus:

(nnimap "one" (nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))
(nnimap "two" (nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))

Now you can have a line for `machine one' and a line for `machine two'
in ~/.authinfo and the two lines can have different user names.

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Muck]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>Btw, you can use different logins on the same news host by creating
>different foreign (or secondary) servers in Gnus:
>
>(nnimap "one" (nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))
>(nnimap "two" (nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))
>
>Now you can have a line for `machine one' and a line for `machine two'
>in ~/.authinfo and the two lines can have different user names.

No, this doesn't work. The "machine" entry in .authinfo is the dns
name, not the nnimap name, so it's "imap.foo.bar" for both servers.

I guess it would work with some stupid tricks like setting different
aliases for the mailserver in /etc/hosts and using those instead...

Andi

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Toby Speight]

0> In article <m3k85py706.fsf@mantuzo.chapulin.de>,
0> Andreas Muck <URL:mailto:ml@chapulin.de> ("Andreas") wrote:

Andreas> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>> Btw, you can use different logins on the same news host by creating
>> different foreign (or secondary) servers in Gnus:
>> 
>> (nnimap "one" (nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))
>> (nnimap "two" (nnimap-address "imap.foo.bar"))
>> 
>> Now you can have a line for `machine one' and a line for `machine
>> two' in ~/.authinfo and the two lines can have different user
>> names.

Andreas> No, this doesn't work.  The "machine" entry in .authinfo is
Andreas> the dns name, not the nnimap name, so it's "imap.foo.bar" for
Andreas> both servers.

Well change the entry with a DNS name to two entries with the nnimap
names, then.  Is is so difficult?

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Muck]

Toby Speight <streapadair@gmx.net> writes:

>Well change the entry with a DNS name to two entries with the nnimap
>names, then.  Is is so difficult?

No. But it doesn't WORK with the nnimap name. I tried it before
posting of course.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[David S. Goldberg]

Isn't nnimap-authinfo-file a server-local variable?  I know that I've
used the fact that nntp-authinfo-file is such to deal with multiple
nntp servers.  I created multiple (3, to be precise) .authinfo format
files with only a "default" entry so no host name was needed at all,
and had each server reference one of them.  I did this because I
bounced to the nntp servers via ssh port forwards and I couldn't have
multiple entries for localhost (I've heard that now there's support
for a "port" in the authinfo format, but that either didn't exist at
the time I used the trick or I just wasn't aware of it.  I'm pretty
sure that I was doing this in quassia-gnus days.)  Anyway, if
nnimap-authinfo-file is not a server-local variable, then perhaps it
should be.
-- 
Dave Goldberg
dsg@world.std.com

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Toby Speight]

0> In article <m3g0gdy5ck.fsf@mantuzo.chapulin.de>,
0> Andreas Muck <URL:mailto:ml@chapulin.de> ("Andreas") wrote:

Andreas> Toby Speight <streapadair@gmx.net> writes:

>> Well change the entry with a DNS name to two entries with the
>> nnimap names, then.  Is is so difficult?

Andreas> No. But it doesn't WORK with the nnimap name.  I tried it
Andreas> before posting of course.

It's supposed to work; here's the code in nnimap.el
(nnimap-open-connection):

> (and (fboundp 'gnus-parse-netrc)
>            (setq list (gnus-parse-netrc nnimap-authinfo-file)
>                  alist (or (and (gnus-netrc-get
>                                  (gnus-netrc-machine list server) "machine")
>                                 (gnus-netrc-machine list server))
>                            (gnus-netrc-machine list nnimap-address))
>                  user (gnus-netrc-get alist "login")
>                  passwd (gnus-netrc-get alist "password")))

If you single-step this function with edebug, you should find what's
going wrong.  Ensure that `server' is the name you've written in the
file.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 16 Mar 2001, Andreas Muck wrote:

> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> 
>>Now you can have a line for `machine one' and a line for `machine
>>two' in ~/.authinfo and the two lines can have different user names.
> 
> No, this doesn't work. The "machine" entry in .authinfo is the dns
> name, not the nnimap name, so it's "imap.foo.bar" for both servers.

I'm doing this, and it works fine.

machine imapadmin login grossjoh.adm password ********
machine thot login grossjoh password ********

The DNS name is thot, and I have a secondary server (nnimap ""
(nnimap-address "thot")).  And I have a foreign server (nnimap
"imapadmin" (nnimap-address "thot")).

Works nicely.

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Muck]

Andreas Oeldenberger <andreas.oeldenberger@gmx.net> writes:

>a: server in gnus-secondary-select-methods
>b: server created in server buffer
>
>The obvious difference  is that gnus is printing the message
>a: "nnimap: Checking mailbox ..." vs. b: "nnimap: Updating info for ..."

I only get "Updating info..." when hitting M-g on both server, no
difference (except that it has to connect to the foreign server
first).

Andi

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Kai Großjohann]

On 16 Mar 2001, Andreas Muck wrote:

> Andreas Oeldenberger <andreas.oeldenberger@gmx.net> writes:
> 
>>a: server in gnus-secondary-select-methods
>>b: server created in server buffer
>>
>>The obvious difference is that gnus is printing the message a:
>>"nnimap: Checking mailbox ..." vs. b: "nnimap: Updating info for
>>..."
> 
> I only get "Updating info..." when hitting M-g on both server, no
> difference (except that it has to connect to the foreign server
> first).

That's normal.  But when you do `g' in the group buffer, Checking is a
lot faster than Updating, so you should aim at getting Checking.

Maybe it works to replace

    (nnimap "foo" (nnimap-address "blarfl") ...)

with

    "nnimap:foo"

when you hit `G e'?

kai
-- 
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.

Re: second(ary) imap server

[Andreas Muck]

Andreas Oeldenberger <andreas.oeldenberger@gmx.net> writes:

>,----
>| (setq gnus-read-active-file nil
>|       gnus-check-new-newsgroups nil)
>`----

Those are global variables, not bound to a specific server, or? I
don't want to turn that off globally, cos I still read news once in a
while with Gnus ;)

But anyway, Kai's suggestions works just fine (foreign server and
group level mangling).

>> If Gnus contacts the server anyway, then you might have to take it
>> out of gnus-secondary-select-methods and to create a foreign server
>> from the server buffer.
>
>.. when I tried this myself (a few weeks ago) I found using a foreign
>server is a lot slower on updating than putting it in
>gnus-secondary-select-methods.

Well, I can't really see any difference, but I read only one group
from the foreign server at the moment and it has only about 10 or 20
messages in it :)

andi