From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/46336 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai =?iso-8859-15?q?Gro=DFjohann?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: detecting encoding for Japanese Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:31:15 +0200 Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: <87sn0y43mc.fsf@ghidra.vail> <87fzwxycy9.fsf@ghidra.vail> <873csxws40.fsf@ghidra.vail> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1030987964 23291 127.0.0.1 (2 Sep 2002 17:32:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 17:32:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@gnus.org Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17lv46-00063Y-00 for ; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 19:32:43 +0200 Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu ([129.7.128.10] ident=lists) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17lv3r-00042X-00; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 12:32:27 -0500 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Mon, 02 Sep 2002 12:33:01 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA23414 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:32:47 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (qmail 4858 invoked by alias); 2 Sep 2002 17:32:08 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 4853 invoked from network); 2 Sep 2002 17:32:08 -0000 Original-Received: from waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de (129.217.4.42) by gnus.org with SMTP; 2 Sep 2002 17:32:08 -0000 Original-Received: from lothlorien.cs.uni-dortmund.de (lothlorien [129.217.19.67]) by waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de with ESMTP id g82HVL801124; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:31:21 +0200 (MES) Original-Received: from lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de (lucy [129.217.19.80]) by lothlorien.cs.uni-dortmund.de id TAA13368; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:31:16 +0200 (MET DST) Original-Received: by lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de (Postfix, from userid 6104) id F17963AE32; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:31:15 +0200 (CEST) Original-To: Katsumi Yamaoka Mail-Followup-To: Katsumi Yamaoka , ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: (Katsumi Yamaoka's message of "Mon, 02 Sep 2002 21:16:40 +0900") Original-Lines: 66 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090008 (Oort Gnus v0.08) Emacs/21.3.50 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:46336 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:46336 Katsumi Yamaoka writes: >>>>>> In >>>>>> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Gro=DFjohann) wrote: > > Kai> Another thought: Mule itself also has a priority list of > Kai> encodings. So I wonder why does Gnus need another priority list? > Kai> Normally, I'd guess that Japanese would normally configure their > Kai> Emacs for the right priorities, and then Gnus should do the right > Kai> thing automatically. There could be two reasons why this is not > Kai> happening: (1) Japanese use a different encoding in email than in > Kai> editing files, or (2) the priorities that Emacs sets up normally > Kai> do not propagate properly to Gnus, or (3) Emacs does not set > Kai> itself up for the right priorities at all when users setup a > Kai> Japanese language environment. Yes, I can't count... > > That's a good consideration. (1) is the main reason. Though > iso-2022-jp is used for mail messages, euc-jp has mainly been > used in UNIX and DOS has used shift_jis. Although it will be > different with the system-type, Emacs gives a priority to euc-jp > or shift_jis in general and it is a right way for editing files. > It seems to be a good way that Emacs offers the priority list > for mails apart from the list for files for the specified > language environment. Okay. So it seems that Japanese users always want what you are saying. What do you think about changing the default value to the following expression? (when (string=3D current-language-environment "Japanese") '(iso-2022-jp iso-2022-jp-2 japanese-shift-jis utf-8)) We could add a comment saying that we still need to investigate which values are good for other language environments. But I wonder if there is a right way to do this? The right way, IMHO, would be to use the standard coding system priorities in principle, except that they are slightly modified to prefer iso-2022-jp over euc-jp. Hm. "emacs -q -no-site-file", then setting the Japanese language environment, tells me: /---- | Priority order for recognizing coding systems when reading files: | 1. iso-2022-jp (alias: junet) | 2. japanese-iso-8bit (alias: euc-japan-1990 euc-japan euc-jp) | 3. japanese-shift-jis (alias: shift_jis sjis) | 4. iso-2022-jp-2=20 | 5. iso-latin-1 (alias: iso-8859-1 latin-1) | 6. iso-2022-7bit=20 | 7. iso-2022-8bit-ss2=20 | 8. emacs-mule=20 | 9. raw-text=20 | 10. chinese-big5 (alias: big5 cn-big5) | 11. no-conversion=20 | 12. mule-utf-8 (alias: utf-8) \---- So it seems that Emacs already prefers iso-2022-jp over euc-jp. It's not clear to me where the problem comes from. Do you get a different output from M-x describe-coding-system RET RET? kai --=20 A large number of young women don't trust men with beards. (BFBS Radio)