Movement ops

Movement ops

[Kai Großjohann]

After so many years of Gnus usage, I'm still looking for the right
keybindings.  I have now set gnus-summary-goto-unread to `never' which
I think is almost the right thing.  M-u and E and so on move to the
next article, which is okay.  And `n' and `p' move to the
next/previous article, which I like.  And I can use `.' to move to the
first unread article.

But how do I move to the next/previous unread article?

kai
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: Movement ops

[Hrvoje Niksic]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> After so many years of Gnus usage, I'm still looking for the right
> keybindings.  I have now set gnus-summary-goto-unread to `never'
> which I think is almost the right thing.  M-u and E and so on move
> to the next article, which is okay.  And `n' and `p' move to the
> next/previous article, which I like.

I use `N' and `P' for this, so `n' and `p' are useful for going to the
next/previous unread article.  But you're right; there seems to be no
one perfect setting.

Re: Movement ops

[Kai Großjohann]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:

> I use `N' and `P' for this, so `n' and `p' are useful for going to the
> next/previous unread article.  But you're right; there seems to be no
> one perfect setting.

I used to interchange n/p and N/P, but then `E' and friends would move
to the next unread article, which I hate.

Is it time for a feature wish, now?  Lars, are you listening?

kai
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: Movement ops

[wjhardaker]

>>>>> On 07 Dec 1999 19:38:09 +0100, Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) said:

Kai> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> writes:
>> I use `N' and `P' for this, so `n' and `p' are useful for going to the
>> next/previous unread article.  But you're right; there seems to be no
>> one perfect setting.

Kai> I used to interchange n/p and N/P, but then `E' and friends would move
Kai> to the next unread article, which I hate.

Kai> Is it time for a feature wish, now?  Lars, are you listening?

I wrote my own:

(defun my-gnus-summary-mark-as-expirable (n)
  "Mark N articles forward as expirable.
If N is negative, mark backward instead.  The difference between N and
the actual number of articles marked is returned."
  (interactive "p")
  (gnus-summary-show-thread)
  (gnus-set-global-variables)
  (let ((backward (< n 0))
	(gnus-summary-goto-unread
	 (and gnus-summary-goto-unread
	      (not (eq gnus-summary-goto-unread 'never))
	      (not (memq gnus-expirable-mark (list gnus-unread-mark
				    gnus-ticked-mark gnus-dormant-mark)))))
	(n (abs n))
	(gnus-expirable-mark (or gnus-expirable-mark gnus-del-mark))))
  (gnus-summary-mark-article nil gnus-expirable-mark)
  (forward-line 1))

-- 
"Ninjas aren't dangerous.  They're more afraid of you than you are of them."

Re: Movement ops

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> I used to interchange n/p and N/P, but then `E' and friends would move
> to the next unread article, which I hate.
> 
> Is it time for a feature wish, now?  Lars, are you listening?

I kinda like the way the keymap is now.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Movement ops

[Kai Großjohann]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> I kinda like the way the keymap is now.

Yes, but there is no way to get what I would like.  If there is a way
at all, then I'm happy.  The current default behavior doesn't need to
change.

Here's what I want:

  - marking commands should move to the next message, not to the next
    unread message
  - there should be a way to move to the next/previous message
  - there should be a way to move to the next/previous unread message

Currently, I can have the first two or the last two, but not all
three.  

kai
-- 
Beware of flying birch trees.

Re: Movement ops

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>   - marking commands should move to the next message, not to the next
>     unread message
>   - there should be a way to move to the next/previous message
>   - there should be a way to move to the next/previous unread message
> 
> Currently, I can have the first two or the last two, but not all
> three.  

I have

(setq gnus-summary-goto-unread nil)

and `d' (and friends) work like 1), `N'/`P' work like 2), and 'n'/`p'
work like 3).  Don't they?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Movement ops

[Kai Großjohann]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> (setq gnus-summary-goto-unread nil)

Marvellous!  Why didn't I try this before?  Hm.  I think the
documentation is a bit misleading:

/----
| gnus-summary-goto-unread's value is 
| never
| 
| Documentation:
| *If t, many commands will go to the next unread article.
| This applies to marking commands as well as other commands that
| "naturally" select the next article, like, for instance, `SPC' at
| the end of an article.
| If nil, only the marking commands will go to the next (un)read article.
| If `never', commands that usually go to the next unread article, will
| go to the next article, whether it is read or not.
| 
| You can customize this variable.
| 
| Defined in `gnus-sum'.
\----

It says, if the variable is t, many commands will go to the next
unread artile, and if it is nil, only some commands will go to the
next (un)read article.

Shouldn't the documentation read like this?

/----
| If t, many commands will go to the next unread article.  This applies
| [...] end of an article.  If nil, the marking commands do NOT go to
| the next unread article (they go to the next article instead).
\----

Sorry for not trying this out in the first place.  I'm a happy camper
now.

kai
-- 
Beware of flying birch trees.

Re: Movement ops

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Shouldn't the documentation read like this?
> 
> /----
> | If t, many commands will go to the next unread article.  This applies
> | [...] end of an article.  If nil, the marking commands do NOT go to
> | the next unread article (they go to the next article instead).
> \----

I've now made this change.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Movement ops

[François Pinard]

Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@iskon.hr> écrit:

> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> > After so many years of Gnus usage, I'm still looking for the right
> > keybindings.  I have now set gnus-summary-goto-unread to `never'
> > which I think is almost the right thing.  M-u and E and so on move
> > to the next article, which is okay.  And `n' and `p' move to the
> > next/previous article, which I like.

> I use `N' and `P' for this, so `n' and `p' are useful for going to the
> next/previous unread article.  But you're right; there seems to be no
> one perfect setting.

And we do not have enough keys :-).

I rebound `N' and `P' for going to the next or previous thread, as I see
that I sometimes want to postpone reading a particular thread, without
skipping it the long way.  I keep `n' and `p' for next or previous unread.
For next/previous article, I just use `C-n' and `C-p' followed by `SPC'.

-- 
François Pinard   http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard

Re: Movement ops

[Jody M. Klymak]

Hi Kai,

My movement commands are stock, out of the box.  N and P move to the
next/previous, n/p move to the next/previous unread and "." moves to
the first unread.  This seems to have all the functionality you seek,
or have I missed something?

Cheers,  Jody

>>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

    KG> After so many years of Gnus usage, I'm still looking for the
    KG> right keybindings.  I have now set gnus-summary-goto-unread to
    KG> `never' which I think is almost the right thing.  M-u and E
    KG> and so on move to the next article, which is okay.  And `n'
    KG> and `p' move to the next/previous article, which I like.  And
    KG> I can use `.' to move to the first unread article.

    KG> But how do I move to the next/previous unread article?

    KG> kai -- A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence
    KG> with.

-- 
Jody Klymak                         APL/School of Oceanography,
Doctoral Candidate                  University of Washington
mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu   (206)-685-9080
http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/

Re: Movement ops

[Kai Großjohann]

"Jody M. Klymak" <jklymak@apl.washington.edu> writes:

> My movement commands are stock, out of the box.  N and P move to the
> next/previous, n/p move to the next/previous unread and "." moves to
> the first unread.  This seems to have all the functionality you seek,
> or have I missed something?

You have set gnus-summary-goto-unread to some value other than
`never'.  This means that, say, `E' moves to the next unread article,
rather than to the next article.  I think.  But I want `E' to move to
the next article.

kai
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: Movement ops

[Jody M. Klymak]

Hi Kai,

Ah, I see that you are right.  Thats sort of funny though.  I'd expect
n/p to keep their behaviour no matter what the behaviour of E.  And
I'd expect N/P to keep their behaviour as well.  i.e. n is always
gnus-summary-newt-unread-article, p is always
gnus-summary-prev-unread-article, N always gnus-summary-next-article
etc.  Why does the binding change when gnus-summary-goto-unread is
set?  

Cheers,  Jody

>>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

    KG> "Jody M. Klymak" <jklymak@apl.washington.edu> writes:
    >> My movement commands are stock, out of the box.  N and P move
    >> to the next/previous, n/p move to the next/previous unread and
    >> "." moves to the first unread.  This seems to have all the
    >> functionality you seek, or have I missed something?

    KG> You have set gnus-summary-goto-unread to some value other than
    KG> `never'.  This means that, say, `E' moves to the next unread
    KG> article, rather than to the next article.  I think.  But I
    KG> want `E' to move to the next article.

    KG> kai -- A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence
    KG> with.

-- 
Jody Klymak                         APL/School of Oceanography,
Doctoral Candidate                  University of Washington
mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu   (206)-685-9080
http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/

Re: Movement ops

[Kai Großjohann]

"Jody M. Klymak" <jklymak@apl.washington.edu> writes:

> [...] i.e. n is always
> gnus-summary-newt-unread-article, p is always
> gnus-summary-prev-unread-article, N always gnus-summary-next-article
> etc.  Why does the binding change when gnus-summary-goto-unread is
> set?  [...]

The keys are still bound to the same functions, but the behavior of
those functions changes.  In particular, *-unread-* is a bit of a
misnomer when gnus-summary-goto-unread is `never' 8-)

kai
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: Movement ops

[Jody M. Klymak]

Hi Kai

>>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:
    KG> The keys are still bound to the same functions, but the
    KG> behavior of those functions changes.  In particular,
    KG> *-unread-* is a bit of a misnomer when
    KG> gnus-summary-goto-unread is `never' 8-)

Hmmm, whats the point of that?  It seems that if you have a
gnus-summary-next-unread-article and a gnus-summary-next-article then
you have all the functionality you could want.  Then perhaps you set a
switch in whatever "E" is bound to to use one or the other.  

To get back to your original question, if you make
gnus-summary-next-unread-article exactly the same as
gnus-summary-next-article then you're kind of hosed for coming up with a
keybinding to go to the next unread article since you have no function
that performs that function any more (unless there is a
gnus-summary-next-unread-article-really-really-I-mean-it-this-time
function you can bind to)

It sounds like if you want E to go to the next article rather than the
next unread you need to change whatever E is bound to.

Cheers,  Jody

-- 
Jody Klymak                         APL/School of Oceanography,
Doctoral Candidate                  University of Washington
mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu   (206)-685-9080
http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/

Re: Movement ops

[Kai Großjohann]

"Jody M. Klymak" <jklymak@apl.washington.edu> writes:

> Hmmm, whats the point of that?  It seems that if you have a
> gnus-summary-next-unread-article and a gnus-summary-next-article then
> you have all the functionality you could want.  Then perhaps you set a
> switch in whatever "E" is bound to to use one or the other.  

To make this clear: I was describing the current Gnus behavior.  I
think the current Gnus behavior is not, uh, orthogonal enough.  There
should be a way to mark a message as expirable without moving at all,
with moving to the prev/next msg, with moving to the prev/next unread
msg.  Alas, there's only gnus-summary-mark-as-expirable which moves
depending on gnus-summary-goto-unread.

Providing all the commands is not difficult to do at all, but thinking
up a meaningful set of key bindings and/or a way for users to
customize the key bindings is nontrivial, I think.  Maybe the first
that should be decided is whether one wants to stay backward
compatible or not.

kai
-- 
A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

Re: Movement ops

[Paul Stevenson]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> A preposition is not a good thing to end a sentence with.

That is a rule up with which I will not put.