From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/34665
Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=DFjohann?=)
Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general
Subject: Re: SMTP question (not quite Gnus-related)
Date: 08 Feb 2001 18:37:42 +0100
Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu
Message-ID: <vafelx9dqjd.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
References: <87y9vujkvd.fsf@torus.tenzing.com>
	<vafelxav0k5.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
	<87lmrij8e2.fsf@inanna.rimspace.net>
	<vafsnlpgvic.fsf@lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de>
	<87lmrhm6tz.fsf@torus.tenzing.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035170549 31547 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 03:22:29 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 03:22:29 +0000 (UTC)
Cc: ding@gnus.org
Return-Path: <owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu>
Original-Received: from karazm.math.uh.edu (karazm.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.1])
	by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A16D049D
	for <jason@mastaler.com>; Thu,  8 Feb 2001 12:39:22 -0500 (EST)
Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (lists@Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5])
	by karazm.math.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAC11448;
	Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:38:20 -0600 (CST)
Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:37:36 -0600 (CST)
Original-Received: from mailhost.sclp.com (postfix@66-209.196.61.interliant.com [209.196.61.66] (may be forged))
	by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21514
	for <ding@hpc.uh.edu>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:37:24 -0600 (CST)
Original-Received: from waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de (waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.4.42])
	by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FA7D049D
	for <ding@gnus.org>; Thu,  8 Feb 2001 12:37:51 -0500 (EST)
Original-Received: from marcy.cs.uni-dortmund.de (marcy.cs.uni-dortmund.de [129.217.20.159]) by waldorf.cs.uni-dortmund.de  with ESMTP id SAA23594; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:37:48 +0100 (MET)
Original-Received: from lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de (lucy [129.217.20.160])
	by marcy.cs.uni-dortmund.de id SAA19484; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:37:47 +0100 (MET)
Original-Received: (from grossjoh@localhost)
	by lucy.cs.uni-dortmund.de (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA22161;
	Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:37:47 +0100
X-Face: 6=pZ4hVbjN:C?j1$h/-bi4:F%*~B#Rxb$[0%!{5NK"dE:_QRAM]Dzl=$yMu%Rh4xCSm/#>!
 $n%@SHJ](K<taDos\M;zw#b7gIc01F@'f{.guD~];wV{#\SX0YlGR6fREpYY>FJKL,uF\=G=bRJQC$
 ?+Dlxu*pj.Z,-GK<~y7sd/l*PN\]>}<oCe5vw:p#\Gsv#E(:`3Jl2*()0,/H
Original-To: "Steven E. Harris" <steven.harris@tenzing.com>
In-Reply-To: <87lmrhm6tz.fsf@torus.tenzing.com> ("Steven E. Harris"'s message of "08 Feb 2001 09:18:32 -0800")
User-Agent: Gnus/5.090001 (Oort Gnus v0.01) Emacs/21.0.98
Precedence: list
X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7
Original-Lines: 50
Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:34665
X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:34665

On 08 Feb 2001, Steven E. Harris wrote:
> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Gro=DFjohann) writes:
>=20
> [...]
>=20
>> By this reading, "<CRLF>.<CRLF>" is *two* lines: an empty line and
>> a line containing only a dot.
>=20
> Well, I think that there can be line content before the first <CRLF>
> and still have the <CRLF>.<CRLF> be a valid terminator.

Yes, yes.  This misunderstanding is the reason why they included the
first <CRLF>.  If you write "foo<CRLF>", do you have a line which
contains the 3 characters "foo" plus an EOL?  Well, this depends on
what comes before that.  If there is an "x" before this, the line
contains 4 characters plus EOL.

But I hope you understood what I meant: "<CRLF>.<CRLF>" is an empty
line plus a 1-char line only if it is the start of the whole thing, or
follows a line.

>> In "DATA<CRLF>foo<CRLF>.<CRLF>", does the message contain "foo" or
>> "foo<CRLF>"?  Or even "<CRLF>foo<CRLF>"?
>=20
> This is the same question I asked in my previous post a few minutes
> ago. I think that the message just contains "foo," because there
> must be some way for you to send "foo" and get "foo" back out on the
> other side. If you send "foo" and you get back "foo<CRLF>," that
> would seem like an intolerable asymmetry in a "transparency"
> mechanism.
>=20
> That would then raise another question: If you meant to send
> "foo<CRLF>," then would the SMTP encoding be
> "foo<CRLF><CRLF>.<CRLF>" or just "foo<CRLF>.<CRLF>"? Who owns that
> first <CRLF>?!?
>=20
> I hope it's clear that I'm not trying to nitpick. I must have
> defined behavior for this stream, and it's supposed to work
> "transparently."

Well, RFC 822 says that the body is a sequence of lines, so the body
always ends with a line, and a line ends with an EOL.  So the body
ends with an EOL.

If you want to transmit something which is not a sequence of lines,
you have to add something on top of SMTP.  Maybe MIME is your friend?

kai
--=20
Be indiscrete.  Do it continuously.