gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Kai Großjohann]

With (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers 'some), I enter the Gnus mailing
list and see the following thread:

EN 13-Aug,  3k: Daniel Pittman  | Re: MML menu in message-mode is poorly named

I then M-: (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t) RET, mark the message as
unread, re-enter the group, and see this thread:

E +03-Aug,  2k: -> ding@gnus.or | > MML menu in message-mode is poorly named
E  10-Aug,  2k: Per Abrahamsen  | \-> 
E  12-Aug,  2k: Simon Josefsson |   \-> 
E  12-Aug,  2k: Nevin Kapur     |     \-> 
EA 12-Aug,  3k: Andreas Fuchs   |       \-> 
E +12-Aug,  3k: -> ding@gnus.or |         \-> 
   13-Aug,  3k: Daniel Pittman  |           \-> 

Now I go back with M-: (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers 'some) RET,
re-enter the group, and:

   13-Aug,  3k: Daniel Pittman  | Re: MML menu in message-mode is poorly named

I thought that gnus-fetch-old-headers = some is supposed to fetch the
old messages from threads, too?  Is this wrong thinking on my part, or
is Gnus doing something wrong?

(I've observed this behavior for years now.)

kai
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Re: gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Janne Rinta-Manty]

Kai Großjohann 2001-08-13T08:59:10Z:
> I thought that gnus-fetch-old-headers = some is supposed to fetch
> the old messages from threads, too?  Is this wrong thinking on my
> part, or is Gnus doing something wrong?

IIRC Gnus fetches old headers, but then gnus-cut-threads throws away
"uninteresting" articles from the beginning of the threads.  At least
I have a brutal (commented out) (eval-after-load "gnus-sum" '(fset
'gnus-cut-threads 'identity)) in my .gnus from the time I tried 'some.

-- 
Janne Rinta-Mänty

Re: gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Kai Großjohann]

Janne Rinta-Manty <rintaman@cs.Helsinki.FI> writes:

> Kai Großjohann 2001-08-13T08:59:10Z:
> > I thought that gnus-fetch-old-headers = some is supposed to fetch
>> the old messages from threads, too?  Is this wrong thinking on my
>> part, or is Gnus doing something wrong?
>
> IIRC Gnus fetches old headers, but then gnus-cut-threads throws away
> "uninteresting" articles from the beginning of the threads.  At least
> I have a brutal (commented out) (eval-after-load "gnus-sum" '(fset
> 'gnus-cut-threads 'identity)) in my .gnus from the time I tried 'some.

Ick.  Gnus shouldn't do that.  Argh.  Maybe I should include a
variable.

Or maybe a new value `more' (or `most'?) for gnus-fetch-old-headers
which is like `some' except that no thr[oe]ats are cut.

Opinions?

kai
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Re: gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Amos Gouaux]

>>>>> On Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:55:56 +0200,
>>>>> Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> (kg) writes:

kg> Or maybe a new value `more' (or `most'?) for gnus-fetch-old-headers
kg> which is like `some' except that no thr[oe]ats are cut.

Keeping up with this will be fun.  `more', `most', `maybe',
`possibly', `some', `whatever', `giveityourbestshot'.  ;-)

Of course just being silly.

-- 
Amos

Re: gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>> IIRC Gnus fetches old headers, but then gnus-cut-threads throws away
>> "uninteresting" articles from the beginning of the threads.  At least
>> I have a brutal (commented out) (eval-after-load "gnus-sum" '(fset
>> 'gnus-cut-threads 'identity)) in my .gnus from the time I tried 'some.
>
> Ick.  Gnus shouldn't do that.  Argh.  Maybe I should include a
> variable.

That's, like, the difference between `all' and `some', isn't it?  Or
does `all' do more than "`some'-without-cutting-threads"?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Kai Großjohann]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>
>>> IIRC Gnus fetches old headers, but then gnus-cut-threads throws away
>>> "uninteresting" articles from the beginning of the threads.  At least
>>> I have a brutal (commented out) (eval-after-load "gnus-sum" '(fset
>>> 'gnus-cut-threads 'identity)) in my .gnus from the time I tried 'some.
>>
>> Ick.  Gnus shouldn't do that.  Argh.  Maybe I should include a
>> variable.
>
> That's, like, the difference between `all' and `some', isn't it?  Or
> does `all' do more than "`some'-without-cutting-threads"?

`all'?  I didn't even know that existed.  I've got (setq
gnus-fetch-old-headers t).  That fetches all the headers.  Does `some'
also fetch all old headers, or just the ones referenced in the
References headers of the new ones?

Actually, what I was after is this: fetch headers for unread messages,
then fetch headers for the articles mentioned in the References
headers, too.

But maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part.

Hm.  Maybe gnus-build-sparse-threads does the trick?  I'll see...

kai
-- 
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Re: gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

>> That's, like, the difference between `all' and `some', isn't it?  Or
>> does `all' do more than "`some'-without-cutting-threads"?
>
> `all'?  I didn't even know that existed.

Er.  It doesn't.  I was thinking about the `display' thing, I think.
If you can call it thinking.

> I've got (setq gnus-fetch-old-headers t).  That fetches all the
> headers.  Does `some' also fetch all old headers, or just the ones
> referenced in the References headers of the new ones?

Everything is fetched in either case, but `some' prunes out anything
that's not related to what you would otherwise have seen.

That is, it only displays those articles that's needed to tie threads
together. 

> Actually, what I was after is this: fetch headers for unread messages,
> then fetch headers for the articles mentioned in the References
> headers, too.
>
> But maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part.

That would take *way* too long to be efficient, but one could have a
`more' setting that wouldn't be so aggressive when pruning.

> Hm.  Maybe gnus-build-sparse-threads does the trick?  I'll see...

It does other tricks.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: gnus-fetch-old-headers = some, but no old headers fetched?

[Kai Großjohann]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Actually, what I was after is this: fetch headers for unread messages,
> then fetch headers for the articles mentioned in the References
> headers, too.
>
> But maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part.
>
> Hm.  Maybe gnus-build-sparse-threads does the trick?  I'll see...

Indeed, gnus-build-sparse-threads sounds just like the description
above.  Now I only need to figure out the right balance between too
few lines and too many lines.

Very nice.  For some reason, I thought that gnus-build-sparse-threads
wasn't what I wanted.  But now it seems to be *just* what the doctor
ordered.

I'm happy.

kai
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