* Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME @ 1998-08-25 11:49 Kai Grossjohann 1998-08-25 14:21 ` François Pinard 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang 0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Kai Grossjohann @ 1998-08-25 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw) What do you guys use for this combination? I tried the latest TM I could find (version 7.106 I think) (because SEMI-Gnus didn't quite work right in Emacs 20.2). I also tested the built-in MIME stuff (using metamail.el) which works fine but is a little too aggressive: it always plays all MIME parts; also, it doesn't allow me to write MIME messages. I just want a fairly workable solution that carries me over until Gnus groks MIME. kai -- OOP: object oriented programming; OOPS: object oriented mistakes ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 11:49 Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME Kai Grossjohann @ 1998-08-25 14:21 ` François Pinard 1998-08-25 14:55 ` Jean-Yves Perrier 1998-08-25 18:06 ` Edward J. Sabol 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang 1 sibling, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: François Pinard @ 1998-08-25 14:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@amaunet.cs.uni-dortmund.de> writes: > What do you guys use for this combination? [...] I just want a fairly > workable solution that carries me over until Gnus groks MIME. I peeked a bit around, and decided for `mime-compose.el' at message composition time. It only handles flat multipart (which I do not create often anyway), and it looks like enough for now -- I only mean here that I can live with that, not that I'm really satisfied. For single part messages like this one, a simple hook adds the necessary fields in the header, so the various sendmails around here could do on-the-fly conversion to quoted-printable for sites having older (or misconfigured :-) sendmails. At message read time, I manage with a few simple Emacs functions I wrote, which call a recent pretest of `recode' under the scene to do specific decodings. Sometimes, rarely, for more complex messages, I `o' the message into a Babyl file and visit it, so to trigger `rmime.el'. Once again, I can live with that, even if not satisfied. I used TM/SEMI for a while, not getting discouraged by installation complexities, until they dropped Gnus support as a patch over Gnus. TM/SEMI is surely a very competent and featureful effort. Despite I prefer being collaborative, I did not like much that they distribute a parallel branch of Gnus, and decided to stick more closely to the original Gnus development. Moreover, if I dare to say, despite MIME undoubtly has its own complexities, I think MIME should be nothing more than an aspect of Gnus, and all things should be kept in proportion. We should at least _aim_ that Gnus has a MIME implementation which stays simple and non-obtrusive. So, I'm ready to stay a bit MIME-less until Gnus groks MIME, which hopefully will happen soon. -- François Pinard mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca Join the free Translation Project! http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:21 ` François Pinard @ 1998-08-25 14:55 ` Jean-Yves Perrier 1998-08-25 18:06 ` Edward J. Sabol 1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Jean-Yves Perrier @ 1998-08-25 14:55 UTC (permalink / raw) As I almost never send MIME message (attachements,...), I use raw gnus to send mails and read them using gnus+tm7.106 This is a liveable workaround of course, although not completely satisfactory. If gnus will support in native, it will be nice. I only hope that it will also feature the advantages of MIME with recent protocols like IMAP which let a user to fetch only the interesting MIME-part of a message from the server (nnimap is under developpement but does not support this feature). Of course it is always easier to speak about what we would like rather than doing it :-) My 0 cent worth comment, -- Jean-Yves Perrier ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:21 ` François Pinard 1998-08-25 14:55 ` Jean-Yves Perrier @ 1998-08-25 18:06 ` Edward J. Sabol 1998-08-26 6:32 ` Steinar Bang 1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Edward J. Sabol @ 1998-08-25 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw) > Sometimes, rarely, for more complex messages, I `o' the message > into a Babyl file and visit it, so to trigger `rmime.el'. Once again, > I can live with that, even if not satisfied. So `rmime.el' works with Emacs 20.3? Cool! I'm rather partial to `rmime.el' and its simple, straightforward implementation (especially compared to tm's complexity). I really hope Lars takes a similar approach to implementing MIME in pgnus. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 18:06 ` Edward J. Sabol @ 1998-08-26 6:32 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 18:35 ` SL Baur 0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 6:32 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "Edward J. Sabol" <sabol@alderaan.gsfc.nasa.gov>: > I'm rather partial to `rmime.el' and its simple, straightforward > implementation (especially compared to tm's complexity). I really > hope Lars takes a similar approach to implementing MIME in pgnus. I used to use rmime.el with VM, back in 1995. But I found it too simple and limitied, so I switched to mh-e which had better itegration with TM. I tried using mew and its integrated MIME support, but I didn't like the handling of the attachments. I gradually moved from using Gnus with nnmh on the same folders I was using MH-E on, and switching between the two, and moved all the way to Gnus in february of 1997, after getting TM to work in a satisfactory manner with Gnus. The fact that TM clashed with the 20.x series of GNU emacs, with MBSK, made me stay with 19.34 until my Solaris box crashed, and I switched to a linux box with 20.2 MBSK. Since that switch, I've been running late qgnus releases, with TM 7.106 on XEmacs 20.4. This combination is something I would be happy with if extension and modification was easier. I haven't dug more deeply into TM, because it is 1. no longer supported (I haven't had the time or inclination to do more than look *ligthly* into SEMI. I couldn't get it to work at my first attempt at installing it, and I knew TM worked, so I dropped it) 2. I'm hoping and waiting for integrated MIME support in Gnus - Steinar ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 6:32 ` Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 18:35 ` SL Baur 0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: SL Baur @ 1998-08-26 18:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes in ding@gnus.org: ... > Since that switch, I've been running late qgnus releases, with TM > 7.106 on XEmacs 20.4. This combination is something I would be happy > with if extension and modification was easier. I haven't dug more > deeply into TM, because it is > 1. no longer supported Strictly speaking, that's not correct. It is being supported in XEmacs. It will continue to be supported in XEmacs by me until Lars ships a Gnus with MIME, and probably after that by the few remaining people who use mh-e with tm. The tm code may not be pretty to some, but it works and it is stable. ... > 2. I'm hoping and waiting for integrated MIME support in Gnus Me too. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 11:49 Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME Kai Grossjohann 1998-08-25 14:21 ` François Pinard @ 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-25 15:39 ` Alan Shutko ` (5 more replies) 1 sibling, 6 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-25 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@amaunet.cs.uni-dortmund.de>: > I just want a fairly workable solution that carries me over until > Gnus groks MIME. Maybe we should start collecting requirements for this MIME implementation? Good requirements always give a clearer idea of how things should be implemented. I would primarily like to see functional requirements on the form "I would like to...". Here are some of mine: - I would like automatic decoding of q-b or base64 encoded text/plain message parts - I would like to view images (JPEG, GIF, PNG) inline in the message - I would like a simple way to save them - I would like a simple way of navigating through a multipart message, and view and save the parts (I rather like the behaviour of TM in Xemacs for the above) - I would like to see text/html message parts formatted inline in the message (using W3, I guess), both where they are the only alternative, and where they are part of a multipart/alternative - I would like to be easily able to toggle between text/plain and text/html parts of a multipart/alternative - I would like to be able to reply to a text/html message part as if it had been a text/plain message (ie. I would like to see the HTML formatted into plain text before it's taken into a *message* buffer and quoted) - I would like attached MSWord documents to be shown inline as the results of catdoc or other filter, while keeping it easy to save the MSWord file to disk Those are the ones I can think about at the top of my head. They're based in the desire to handle the messages people send to me (typically composed in Netscape or MSOutlook) as automatically as possible. There's a bit of prestige involved, as well as a desire to handle this stuff without manual intervention. I'm tired of hearing that I'm backwards and that I should "get a *modern* email program". I guess the things larsi will implement first, are utilities for parsing and decoding a MIME message. What we then need is a good modular mechanism for running things through filters and displaying them in the message. Then people can start writing their own filters. The one thing in my "functional requirements" that cannot be handled this way, is the stuff surrounding HTML and multipart/alternative. - Steinar ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-25 15:39 ` Alan Shutko 1998-08-25 20:53 ` Andy Eskilsson 1998-08-25 15:48 ` Jan Vroonhof ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Alan Shutko @ 1998-08-25 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding >>>>> "S" == Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: S> I would primarily like to see functional requirements on the form S> "I would like to...". S> I would like a simple way to save them I would like to be prompted for directory and filename. That's one area that TM/SEMI really upset me. Other than that, you've covered everything I want! -- Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - By consent of the corrupted "I am Archie of Borg. Your will be da first one 'similated, meathead!" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 15:39 ` Alan Shutko @ 1998-08-25 20:53 ` Andy Eskilsson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Andy Eskilsson @ 1998-08-25 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw) / Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> wrote: | >>>>> "S" == Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: | | S> I would primarily like to see functional requirements on the form | S> "I would like to...". | | S> I would like a simple way to save them | | I would like to be prompted for directory and filename. That's one | area that TM/SEMI really upset me. UHm, let it be configurable, so you either can choose a standard subdir to extract files to (without asking) or be asked with some special directory as default, or 'current'. Or the final setting, ask for everything, even the shoe-size of my grand-children (well I don't have any yet but..).. /Andy ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-25 15:39 ` Alan Shutko @ 1998-08-25 15:48 ` Jan Vroonhof 1998-08-25 17:28 ` François Pinard ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Jan Vroonhof @ 1998-08-25 15:48 UTC (permalink / raw) Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: > I would primarily like to see functional requirements on the form "I > would like to...". Here are some of the ones of the type "$$@#@, I wish TM did that" 1. When extracting the contents of some part to a file, ASK for a filename. Make the origional name the default in some directory which should be settable using elisp. 2. Be able to do everthing in elisp only. Only call external executables as a speedup option. 3. Be able to extract a part to a buffer. Jan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-25 15:39 ` Alan Shutko 1998-08-25 15:48 ` Jan Vroonhof @ 1998-08-25 17:28 ` François Pinard 1998-08-25 17:58 ` Kai Grossjohann 1998-08-25 21:34 ` SL Baur 1998-08-25 21:50 ` SL Baur ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: François Pinard @ 1998-08-25 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: > Here are some of mine: All these desiderata are quite sensible. One thing looks more difficult for those using Emacs instead of XEmacs: > - I would like to view images (JPEG, GIF, PNG) inline in the message Emacs 20.5 should have inlined pictures, but it would be fun to find some solution for Emacs users, before we get there. > The one thing in my "functional requirements" that cannot be handled > this way, is the stuff surrounding HTML and multipart/alternative. I presume the best bet is automatically using the richest format possible in a given environment, or at least, have user options stating preferences. Manual intervention could be required to alter the choice (a bit like there are washing commands to alter presentation after the fact, even if these commands are hook-able), but I would not say that having such commands for selection among alternative MIME parts would make Gnus less interesting. All the contrary: it's better having a choice than none. Yet, selection among alternative parts should be automated by default. -- François Pinard mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca Join the free Translation Project! http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 17:28 ` François Pinard @ 1998-08-25 17:58 ` Kai Grossjohann 1998-08-25 21:34 ` SL Baur 1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Kai Grossjohann @ 1998-08-25 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > Emacs 20.5 should have inlined pictures, but it would be fun to > find some solution for Emacs users, before we get there. set-face-stipple, I say 8-) kai -- OOP: object oriented programming; OOPS: object oriented mistakes ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 17:28 ` François Pinard 1998-08-25 17:58 ` Kai Grossjohann @ 1998-08-25 21:34 ` SL Baur 1998-08-25 21:59 ` Alan Shutko 1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: SL Baur @ 1998-08-25 21:34 UTC (permalink / raw) ois Pinard <Fran> writes in ding@gnus.org: > Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes: >> Here are some of mine: > All these desiderata are quite sensible. One thing looks more difficult > for those using Emacs instead of XEmacs: >> - I would like to view images (JPEG, GIF, PNG) inline in the message > Emacs 20.5 should have inlined pictures, but it would be fun to find some > solution for Emacs users, before we get there. What more can you do than what tm already does? You get an inline image if the editor supports it, otherwise you get a button to click on to extract the image to a file or play it on an external viewer. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 21:34 ` SL Baur @ 1998-08-25 21:59 ` Alan Shutko 0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Alan Shutko @ 1998-08-25 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "sb" == SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes: sb> ois Pinard <Fran> writes in ding@gnus.org: >> Emacs 20.5 should have inlined pictures, but it would be fun to >> find some solution for Emacs users, before we get there. sb> What more can you do than what tm already does? pbmtoascii -- Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - By consent of the corrupted The more things change, the more they stay insane. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 1998-08-25 17:28 ` François Pinard @ 1998-08-25 21:50 ` SL Baur 1998-08-25 22:05 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 5:37 ` Kees de Bruin 1998-08-26 13:30 ` Steinar Bang 5 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: SL Baur @ 1998-08-25 21:50 UTC (permalink / raw) Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes in ding@gnus.org: [nice requirements ...] > There's a bit of prestige involved, as well as a desire to handle this > stuff without manual intervention. I'm tired of hearing that I'm > backwards and that I should "get a *modern* email program". It doesn't get any more modern than Gnus+TM on XEmacs (IMNSHO). I would add to the list: Decoding MIME attachments to files should work the same as uudecoding works. In other words, if you tick a number of messages, some of which are uuencoded and some of which are MIME encoded, and pick one of the batch uudecode functions, all messages should have their contents extracted to files. I'd like to see a similar level of Mule support as is currently implemented in tm. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 21:50 ` SL Baur @ 1998-08-25 22:05 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-25 23:01 ` Michael Harnois 0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-25 22:05 UTC (permalink / raw) SL Baur <steve@xemacs.org> writes: > Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes in ding@gnus.org: > [nice requirements ...] > > There's a bit of prestige involved, as well as a desire to handle this > > stuff without manual intervention. I'm tired of hearing that I'm > > backwards and that I should "get a *modern* email program". > > It doesn't get any more modern than Gnus+TM on XEmacs (IMNSHO). I beg to differ. TM's user interface is simply horrible; its crockishness has been discussed many times on xemacs-beta. Whatever native Gnus MIME support does will likely end up being much better. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Don't hit a man when he's down -- kick him; it's easier. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 22:05 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-25 23:01 ` Michael Harnois 0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Michael Harnois @ 1998-08-25 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > Whatever native Gnus MIME support does will likely end up being much > better. If it doesn't happen in our lifetimes, though, it won't make a lot of difference. -- Michael D. Harnois, Redeemer Lutheran Church, Washburn, IA mharnois@sbt.net aa0bt@aa0bt.ampr.org "There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion." - Carl Jung ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang ` (3 preceding siblings ...) 1998-08-25 21:50 ` SL Baur @ 1998-08-26 5:37 ` Kees de Bruin 1998-08-26 10:18 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 13:30 ` Steinar Bang 5 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Kees de Bruin @ 1998-08-26 5:37 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Steinar Bang writes: > >>>>> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@amaunet.cs.uni-dortmund.de>: > > > I just want a fairly workable solution that carries me over until > > Gnus groks MIME. > > Maybe we should start collecting requirements for this MIME > implementation? Good requirements always give a clearer idea of how > things should be implemented. I only hear people talking about TM for handling MIME, but what about the way MIME is handled in VM. Mainly because of the full integration of the MIME support in VM, the user doesn't have to configure anything at all and it still works as expected. -- Kees de Bruin Software Engineer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-mail: kees_de_bruin@tasking.com Tasking Software BV Voice: +31-33-455 85 84 Plotterweg 31 Fax: +31-33-455 00 03 3821 BB Amersfoort WWW: http://www.tasking.com The Netherlands --------[ Give me the Luxuries, and the Hell with the Necessities! ]------- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 5:37 ` Kees de Bruin @ 1998-08-26 10:18 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 12:56 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 13:02 ` Kees de Bruin 0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 10:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Kees de Bruin <kees_de_bruin@tasking.com> writes: > I only hear people talking about TM for handling MIME, but what > about the way MIME is handled in VM. Mainly because of the full > integration of the MIME support in VM, the user doesn't have to > configure anything at all and it still works as expected. True. I would recommend to Lars to look at VM's MIME support and see if he likes that. Implementing something similar (at least at the UI level) would be a *very* good start. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- "Silence!" cries Freydag. "I did not call thee in for a consultation!" "They are my innards! I will not have them misread by a poseur!" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 10:18 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 12:56 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 13:02 ` Kees de Bruin 1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr>: > True. I would recommend to Lars to look at VM's MIME support and see > if he likes that. Implementing something similar (at least at the UI > level) would be a *very* good start. Hm... how about if people who know and like VM's MIME support save larsi the work and trouble and summarize what they like about it as functional requirements. Just my 77 øre... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 10:18 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 12:56 ` Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 13:02 ` Kees de Bruin 1998-08-26 13:18 ` Jake Colman 1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Kees de Bruin @ 1998-08-26 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic writes: > Kees de Bruin <kees_de_bruin@tasking.com> writes: > > > I only hear people talking about TM for handling MIME, but what > > about the way MIME is handled in VM. Mainly because of the full > > integration of the MIME support in VM, the user doesn't have to > > configure anything at all and it still works as expected. > > True. I would recommend to Lars to look at VM's MIME support and see > if he likes that. Implementing something similar (at least at the UI > level) would be a *very* good start. In a private discussion with Steinar Bang I promised to post a list of MIME functions the VM mail reader supports. The VM mail reader has support for MIME since version 6.xx and, as far as I know, in the current version of VM (6.61) the following MIME capabilities are present (or at least used by me): MIME encoding: - Attachments are possible with whatever encoding the user wants. Also, based on the extension of the file, VM can guess the correct encoding to use. No mailcap/mimetypes support. - Encoding can be done using internal ELisp functions, or via external programs. - Sending multiple messages as a single MIME digest. MIME decoding: - The user can configure what MIME types should be displayed inline (meaning that it is either displayed in a buffer or directly via an external program). - For non-inline MIME types buttons are generated the user can use to save the MIME part to a file, or open it in some external viewer. - Alternative display of MIME messages: plain text (no conversions), using inline display, or all buttons. - Handling of multipart messages (am I correct here, I never tried this). - Decoding can be done using internal ELisp functions, or via external programs. - Handling of MIME digests. I have probably missed some other MIME functions, but the above are the things I use regularly. If there are other that use VM maybe they can update the above list. Greetings, -- Kees de Bruin Software Engineer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-mail: kees_de_bruin@tasking.com Tasking Software BV Voice: +31-33-455 85 84 Plotterweg 31 Fax: +31-33-455 00 03 3821 BB Amersfoort WWW: http://www.tasking.com The Netherlands --[ In memory, everything seems to happen to music -- Tennessee Williams ]- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 13:02 ` Kees de Bruin @ 1998-08-26 13:18 ` Jake Colman 1998-08-26 13:25 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 13:36 ` Hrvoje Niksic 0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Jake Colman @ 1998-08-26 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding I hope that pgnus will not suffer from the "not invented here" syndrome and will make use of as much as is already available as it can. It just would seem a shame if we could not benefit from the work thet VM or SEMI has already done with regards to MIME support. Do we have any form of time frame in which to expect the rudiments of MIME support in an early pgnus? -- Jake Colman Principia Partners LLC Phone: (201) 946-0300 Harborside Financial Center Fax: (201) 946-0320 902 Plaza II Beeper: (800) 505-2795 Jersey City, NJ 07311 E-mail: colman@ppllc.com E-mail: jcolman@jnc.com web: http://www.ppllc.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 13:18 ` Jake Colman @ 1998-08-26 13:25 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 13:42 ` Jean-Yves Perrier 1998-08-26 13:36 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 13:25 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> Jake Colman <colman@ppllc.com>: > I hope that pgnus will not suffer from the "not invented here" > syndrome and will make use of as much as is already available as it > can. It just would seem a shame if we could not benefit from the > work thet VM or SEMI has already done with regards to MIME support. The VM stuff is out, as Kyle Jones refuses to sign his code over to FSF, and this is neccessary for being included into the GNU emacs distribution (as Gnus is meant to be). I haven't looked at SEMI, but I belive TM is more complex than what larsi aims for. Also well integrated native MIME support will be designed differently to MIME support that is meant to work for a multitude of MUAs. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 13:25 ` Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 13:42 ` Jean-Yves Perrier 0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Jean-Yves Perrier @ 1998-08-26 13:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Other point: In some MIME type, like vcard, there is a possible to make special URL beginning with cid:... These relate to other MIME attachement of the same message. It would be nice for the people developping MIME types extension that Gnus provides function to handles these URL smoothly. -- Jean-Yves Perrier ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 13:18 ` Jake Colman 1998-08-26 13:25 ` Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 13:36 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 13:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Jake Colman <colman@ppllc.com> writes: > I hope that pgnus will not suffer from the "not invented here" > syndrome and will make use of as much as is already available as it > can. It just would seem a shame if we could not benefit from the > work thet VM This is exactly what will happen. Stallman requires the code to be included in FSF Emacs (which includes Gnus) to be assigned to the FSF, and Kyle will never do that with VM. > or SEMI has already done with regards to MIME support. I hope Lars will not reuse the code in TM and SEMI. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Manic depression is cool... your body can make its own drugs. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 13:36 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-08-26 16:53 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 18:34 ` Dave Love 0 siblings, 2 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-08-26 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > or SEMI has already done with regards to MIME support. > > I hope Lars will not reuse the code in TM and SEMI. As noted the VM code is off limits. I would like to use the code from TM and SEMI, but I just don't understand much of it. The most likely suspects for pilfering are, uh, rmime and the mime-compose thing François mentioned. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-08-26 16:53 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 17:17 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-08-26 18:34 ` Dave Love 1 sibling, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > > > or SEMI has already done with regards to MIME support. > > > > I hope Lars will not reuse the code in TM and SEMI. > > As noted the VM code is off limits. What does "off limits" mean? With respect to VM, I would like you to reuse the design decisions, where possible and appropriate, rather than the actual code. > The most likely suspects for pilfering are, uh, rmime and the > mime-compose thing François mentioned. I'm not sure how good idea it is to reuse these libraries, but that's your decision to make. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Your lucky number today is 29842924728. Look for it everywhere. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 16:53 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 17:17 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-08-26 17:27 ` Hrvoje Niksic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 31+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-08-26 17:17 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > As noted the VM code is off limits. > > What does "off limits" mean? Kyle Jones doesn't sign his code off to the FSF. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 17:17 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-08-26 17:27 ` Hrvoje Niksic 0 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > > > As noted the VM code is off limits. > > > > What does "off limits" mean? > > Kyle Jones doesn't sign his code off to the FSF. Oh, I know that. As I said before, I am advocating VM's good UI design rather than the possibility of reuse of its code. -- Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- Try to use "ad nauseam" at least once per flame. It doesn't mean anything; but it gives that polished feel to your postings. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-26 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-08-26 16:53 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-08-26 18:34 ` Dave Love 1 sibling, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Dave Love @ 1998-08-26 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw) [-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --] [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 481 bytes --] >>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: Lars> The most likely suspects for pilfering are, uh, rmime and the Lars> mime-compose thing François mentioned. AFAIR the TM composition is derivative of Umeda's mime.el (which I think is assigned). You might look at that (1995 vintage), but obviously something of his would need one or two small tweaks. Isn't W3 always a good suspect? You can beat a confession out of it to a surprising number of things. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang ` (4 preceding siblings ...) 1998-08-26 5:37 ` Kees de Bruin @ 1998-08-26 13:30 ` Steinar Bang 5 siblings, 0 replies; 31+ messages in thread From: Steinar Bang @ 1998-08-26 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no>: >>>>> Kai Grossjohann <grossjohann@amaunet.cs.uni-dortmund.de>: >> I just want a fairly workable solution that carries me over until >> Gnus groks MIME. > Maybe we should start collecting requirements for this MIME > implementation? Good requirements always give a clearer idea of how > things should be implemented. > I would primarily like to see functional requirements on the form "I > would like to...". > Here are some of mine: A new point: - I would like the MIME support to cooperate with the upcoming nnimap, in such a way that loading of attachments can be delayed until you actually wish to show or save it (delay the download of that 5MB PowerPoint file your boss sent you (real example: it happened to me today) until you can plug your laptop into the LAN at work) For more info on nnimap, see http://www.ccs.neu.edu/software/contrib/gnus/#Q4_13 and follow the link on to Simon Josefsson's web page. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 31+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1998-08-26 18:35 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 31+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1998-08-25 11:49 Gnus and Emacs 20.3 and MIME Kai Grossjohann 1998-08-25 14:21 ` François Pinard 1998-08-25 14:55 ` Jean-Yves Perrier 1998-08-25 18:06 ` Edward J. Sabol 1998-08-26 6:32 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 18:35 ` SL Baur 1998-08-25 14:45 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-25 15:39 ` Alan Shutko 1998-08-25 20:53 ` Andy Eskilsson 1998-08-25 15:48 ` Jan Vroonhof 1998-08-25 17:28 ` François Pinard 1998-08-25 17:58 ` Kai Grossjohann 1998-08-25 21:34 ` SL Baur 1998-08-25 21:59 ` Alan Shutko 1998-08-25 21:50 ` SL Baur 1998-08-25 22:05 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-25 23:01 ` Michael Harnois 1998-08-26 5:37 ` Kees de Bruin 1998-08-26 10:18 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 12:56 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 13:02 ` Kees de Bruin 1998-08-26 13:18 ` Jake Colman 1998-08-26 13:25 ` Steinar Bang 1998-08-26 13:42 ` Jean-Yves Perrier 1998-08-26 13:36 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-08-26 16:53 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 17:17 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-08-26 17:27 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-08-26 18:34 ` Dave Love 1998-08-26 13:30 ` Steinar Bang
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