Expiry still broken for nnml?

Expiry still broken for nnml?

[Norman Walsh]

I posted a question about this a few days ago. Steiner suggested some
workarounds, but no one even acknowledged that the behavior I'm seeing
is a bug. There's been some heat about expiry in the last few days, so
I'm hoping for better luck this time :-)

I'm running oort from CVS as of a couple of hours ago on Gnu Emacs 21.1.1.

Until recently (how recently, erm, I'm not sure), every time I left an
nnml group, gnus would happily grovel over the messages and process my
group-parameter expire settings, deleting appropriate mail.

But it doesn't do that anymore. It says "Expiring articles..." when I
leave, but it doesn't actually expire any of them. Even if I mark them
'E' explicitly. If I run gnus-summary-expire-articles-now by hand,
that works, but that's rather more aggressive than I usually want.

My group parameters (for ding in this case) look like this:

((timestamp 15679 2698)
 (to-list . "ding@gnus.org")
 (total-expire . t)
 (expiry-wait . 30)
 (expiry-target . delete))

If I enter the group with C-u space, I see lots of old mail (some more
than six weeks old). Most of it marked 'O', but some of it marked 'E'
(from when I fiddled with auto-expire, I think). When I leave the
group, none of it gets deleted.

Help? I really want gnus to do what it used to.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | Extinction, n. The raw material out of
http://nwalsh.com/            | which theology created the future
                              | state.--Ambrose Bierce

Re: Expiry still broken for nnml?

[Simon Josefsson]

Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes:

> I posted a question about this a few days ago. Steiner suggested some
> workarounds, but no one even acknowledged that the behavior I'm seeing
> is a bug. There's been some heat about expiry in the last few days, so
> I'm hoping for better luck this time :-)
>
> I'm running oort from CVS as of a couple of hours ago on Gnu Emacs 21.1.1.
>
> Until recently (how recently, erm, I'm not sure), every time I left an
> nnml group, gnus would happily grovel over the messages and process my
> group-parameter expire settings, deleting appropriate mail.
>
> But it doesn't do that anymore. It says "Expiring articles..." when I
> leave, but it doesn't actually expire any of them. Even if I mark them
> 'E' explicitly. If I run gnus-summary-expire-articles-now by hand,
> that works, but that's rather more aggressive than I usually want.
>
> My group parameters (for ding in this case) look like this:
>
> ((timestamp 15679 2698)
>  (to-list . "ding@gnus.org")
>  (total-expire . t)
>  (expiry-wait . 30)
>  (expiry-target . delete))
>
> If I enter the group with C-u space, I see lots of old mail (some more
> than six weeks old). Most of it marked 'O', but some of it marked 'E'
> (from when I fiddled with auto-expire, I think). When I leave the
> group, none of it gets deleted.

Does removing the expiry-wait parameter help?  I'm not sure what
semantic that variable and total expiring actually should imply.

Re: Expiry still broken for nnml?

[Kai Großjohann]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Does removing the expiry-wait parameter help?  I'm not sure what
> semantic that variable and total expiring actually should imply.

What's the relationship between total-expire and expiry-wait that
creates problems?  Ideally, expiry-wait refers to the time when the
message was marked as expirable, and total-expire just means that the
message is marked as expirable when it is marked as read.  No?

kai
-- 
A large number of young women don't trust men with beards.  (BFBS Radio)

Re: Expiry still broken for nnml?

[Simon Josefsson]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:
>
>> Does removing the expiry-wait parameter help?  I'm not sure what
>> semantic that variable and total expiring actually should imply.
>
> What's the relationship between total-expire and expiry-wait that
> creates problems?  Ideally, expiry-wait refers to the time when the
> message was marked as expirable, and total-expire just means that the
> message is marked as expirable when it is marked as read.  No?

You are right.  Hm.  I don't know why it doesn't work, then.

Re: Expiry still broken for nnml?

[Norman Walsh]

/ Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> was heard to say:
| Does removing the expiry-wait parameter help?  I'm not sure what
| semantic that variable and total expiring actually should imply.

No, it doesn't help. And as was discussed, I don't think it should have.

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | The most universal quality is
http://nwalsh.com/            | diversity.--Montaigne

Re: Expiry still broken for nnml?

[David S Goldberg]

>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:20:29 -0400, Norman Walsh
>>>>> <ndw@nwalsh.com> said:

> If I enter the group with C-u space, I see lots of old mail (some more
> than six weeks old). Most of it marked 'O', but some of it marked 'E'
> (from when I fiddled with auto-expire, I think). When I leave the
> group, none of it gets deleted.

Have you tried reading any of those old messages to be sure they are
actually on disk?  You may have a messed up overview file.  That used
to happen to me all too often when I used nnml (and even now, with
nnimap, I find it occasionally necessary to delete overview files so
that summaries don't show old messages that don't really exist any
more).
-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net

Re: Expiry still broken for nnml?

[Norman Walsh]

/ David S Goldberg <david.goldberg6@verizon.net> was heard to say:
| Have you tried reading any of those old messages to be sure they are
| actually on disk?  You may have a messed up overview file.  That used
| to happen to me all too often when I used nnml (and even now, with
| nnimap, I find it occasionally necessary to delete overview files so
| that summaries don't show old messages that don't really exist any
| more).

They're all there. Tens of thousands of them. Maybe this hasn't been
working for longer than I thought...

                                        Be seeing you,
                                          norm

-- 
Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | The human race consists of the
http://nwalsh.com/            | dangerously insane and such as are
                              | not.--Mark Twain

Re: Expiry still broken for nnml?

[Simon Josefsson]

David S Goldberg <david.goldberg6@verizon.net> writes:

>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:20:29 -0400, Norman Walsh
>>>>>> <ndw@nwalsh.com> said:
>
>> If I enter the group with C-u space, I see lots of old mail (some more
>> than six weeks old). Most of it marked 'O', but some of it marked 'E'
>> (from when I fiddled with auto-expire, I think). When I leave the
>> group, none of it gets deleted.
>
> Have you tried reading any of those old messages to be sure they are
> actually on disk?  You may have a messed up overview file.  That used
> to happen to me all too often when I used nnml (and even now, with
> nnimap, I find it occasionally necessary to delete overview files so
> that summaries don't show old messages that don't really exist any
> more).

If you can reproduce when those articles got deleted and were still in
the overview, perhaps it could be fixed.  Hm.  Could it be that those
articles was deleted using another IMAP client?

corrupt IMAP overviews (was: Expiry still broken for nnml?)

[Dave Goldberg]

>>>>> On Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:29:41 +0200, Simon Josefsson
>>>>> <jas@extundo.com> said:

> If you can reproduce when those articles got deleted and were still in
> the overview, perhaps it could be fixed.  Hm.  Could it be that those
> articles was deleted using another IMAP client?

Unfortunately it's never been reproducible.  I only rarely use a
different IMAP client (netscape) and I don't recall use of netscape
correlating to any of the times it happened to me.  On the other hand,
I do run Gnus on several different systems so I suppose it's possible
that running and expiring on one will mess up the overviews in
another.  I'm writing from home now.  I'll run expiry and see if I get
old messages when I get to the office tomorrow.

-- 
Dave Goldberg
david.goldberg6@verizon.net