Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Harry Putnam]

There was code added fairly recently that allows one to send messages
to your own local groups.  Involving an nntp header I think.

I can't remember the name of this or any variables to lookup.
Where can I read about this functionality?  

I hoped to maybe find a clue at C-c C-i Group Buffer, in that list of menu
items pertaining to groups.. Maybe its too new to be there or fits in
another topic better.

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Paul Jarc]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> There was code added fairly recently that allows one to send messages
> to your own local groups.  Involving an nntp header I think.

nnml and some others recognize Newsgroups, so you can post messages to
them without sending the message to anyone else.  So you can use the S
keys to followup to a message as if by news, to leave yourself a note.


paul

How to use UTF-8 for outgoing mail with XEmacs?

[Mike Fabian]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2519 bytes --]

mm-util.el contains the following function:

    (defun mm-find-mime-charset-region (b e &optional hack-charsets)
      "Return the MIME charsets needed to encode the region between B and E.
    Nil means ASCII, a single-element list represents an appropriate MIME
    charset, and a longer list means no appropriate charset."
      (let (charsets)
        ;; The return possibilities of this function are a mess...
        (or (and (mm-multibyte-p)
                 (fboundp 'find-coding-systems-region)
                 ;; Find the mime-charset of the most preferred coding
                 ;; system that has one.
                 (let ((systems (find-coding-systems-region b e)))
                   ;; Fixme: The `mime-charset' (`x-ctext') of `compound-text'
                   ;; is not in the IANA list.
                   (setq systems (delq 'compound-text systems))
                   (unless (equal systems '(undecided))
                     (while systems
                       (let ((cs (coding-system-get (pop systems) 'mime-charset)))
                         (if cs
                             (setq systems nil
                                   charsets (list cs))))))
                   charsets))
            ;; Otherwise we're not multibyte, XEmacs or a single coding
            ;; system won't cover it.
            (setq charsets 
                  (mm-delete-duplicates
                   (mapcar 'mm-mime-charset
                           (delq 'ascii
                                 (mm-find-charset-region b e))))))
        (if (and (memq 'iso-8859-15 charsets)
                 (memq 'iso-8859-15 hack-charsets)
                 (save-excursion (mm-iso-8859-x-to-15-region b e)))
            (mapcar (lambda (x) (setq charsets (delq (car x) charsets)))
                    mm-iso-8859-15-compatible))
        (if (and (memq 'iso-2022-jp-2 charsets)
                 (memq 'iso-2022-jp-2 hack-charsets))
            (setq charsets (delq 'iso-2022-jp charsets)))
        charsets))

How do do something like 'find-coding-systems-region' with XEmacs?  As
XEmacs doesn't have this function, only the second part of the 'or' is
used with XEmacs. The result is that UTF-8 is never used, although
XEmacs works fine with UTF-8 together with Mule-UCS (I add a German
umlaut here to force this message to use UTF-8: 'ö').

I applied the following small patch to mm-util.el to make it possible
to use UTF-8 in outgoing mail with XEmacs and Mule-UCS


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: mm-util.el.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-patch, Size: 621 bytes --]

Index: mm-util.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/gnus/lisp/mm-util.el,v
retrieving revision 6.32
diff -u -r6.32 mm-util.el
--- mm-util.el	2001/11/02 22:32:30	6.32
+++ mm-util.el	2001/11/12 22:59:23
@@ -508,7 +508,9 @@
     (if (and (memq 'iso-2022-jp-2 charsets)
 	     (memq 'iso-2022-jp-2 hack-charsets))
 	(setq charsets (delq 'iso-2022-jp charsets)))
-    charsets))
+    (if (> (length charsets) 1)
+	'(utf-8) 
+      charsets)))
 
 (defmacro mm-with-unibyte-buffer (&rest forms)
   "Create a temporary buffer, and evaluate FORMS there like `progn'.

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This 'works for me' but it doesn't look quite right.

What is the proper solution to this problem?

-- 
Mike Fabian   <mfabian@suse.de>   http://www.suse.de/~mfabian
睡眠不足はいい仕事の敵だ。

Re: How to use UTF-8 for outgoing mail with XEmacs?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Mike Fabian <mfabian@suse.de> writes:

> I applied the following small patch to mm-util.el to make it possible
> to use UTF-8 in outgoing mail with XEmacs and Mule-UCS

Has anybody written a utf-8/Emacs/Gnus howto?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: How to use UTF-8 for outgoing mail with XEmacs?

[Florian Weimer]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Mike Fabian <mfabian@suse.de> writes:
>
>> I applied the following small patch to mm-util.el to make it possible
>> to use UTF-8 in outgoing mail with XEmacs and Mule-UCS
>
> Has anybody written a utf-8/Emacs/Gnus howto?

For which Emacs?  A Recent Gnus together with stock GNU Emacs 21.1 is
rather broken UTF-8-wise, due to a deliberate design decision. :-(

Re: How to use UTF-8 for outgoing mail with XEmacs?

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> writes:

>> Has anybody written a utf-8/Emacs/Gnus howto?
>
> For which Emacs?

XEmacs & Emacs 21?

>  A Recent Gnus together with stock GNU Emacs 21.1 is rather broken
> UTF-8-wise, due to a deliberate design decision. :-(

Huh.  Could you give us a brief recap?  :-)

(Or if it has been discussed earlier, I'll probably hit the discussion
some time this weekend, while doing my
time-travel-through-reading-old-mail thing.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: How to use UTF-8 for outgoing mail with XEmacs?

[Florian Weimer]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

>>  A Recent Gnus together with stock GNU Emacs 21.1 is rather broken
>> UTF-8-wise, due to a deliberate design decision. :-(
>
> Huh.  Could you give us a brief recap?  :-)

There is some magic in mm-util.el to propagate ISO-8859-x, x small, to
ISO-8859-15, if the message contains characters in the ISO-8859-15
charset.  Stock Emacs 21.1 cannot encode any ISO-8859-15 characters
using UTF-8, which means that we've got problems if the user chose a
Latin-9 environment and actually uses umlauts and other characters.

But you should read the thread yourself, I'm probably biased.  As far
as I can tlell, the thread in question started at
<lgd.87n12c21nc.fsf@mde1.zonix.de>.

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Kai Großjohann]

prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:

> nnml and some others recognize Newsgroups

I know that nnimap does.  Maybe nnmaildir does?  Any others?

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Paul Jarc]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) wrote:
> prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:
>> nnml and some others recognize Newsgroups
>
> I know that nnimap does.  Maybe nnmaildir does?  Any others?

Not nnmaildir.  (Wasn't the nnml version added to the other nnmail
backends?)  I was hoping somebody would make the necessary changes to
allow messages to be delivered only to Gcc, so I wouldn't have to
bother.  Maybe I'll do that myself.


paul

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Simon Josefsson]

prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:

> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) wrote:
>> prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:
>>> nnml and some others recognize Newsgroups
>>
>> I know that nnimap does.  Maybe nnmaildir does?  Any others?
>
> Not nnmaildir.  (Wasn't the nnml version added to the other nnmail
> backends?)  I was hoping somebody would make the necessary changes to
> allow messages to be delivered only to Gcc, so I wouldn't have to
> bother.  Maybe I'll do that myself.

Does this work?  (I've committed it.)

2001-11-17  Simon Josefsson  <jas@extundo.com>

	* message.el (message-send): Ask user if Fcc/Gcc should be
	performed when no other sender was specified.
	Suggested by prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc).

Index: message.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/gnus/lisp/message.el,v
retrieving revision 6.159
diff -u -r6.159 message.el
--- message.el	2001/11/17 10:54:09	6.159
+++ message.el	2001/11/17 11:25:55
@@ -2499,7 +2499,7 @@
   (message message-sending-message)
   (let ((alist message-send-method-alist)
 	(success t)
-	elem sent
+	elem sent dont-barf-on-no-method
 	(message-options message-options))
     (message-options-set-recipient)
     (while (and success
@@ -2516,9 +2516,19 @@
 			 (error "Denied posting -- multiple copies")))
 		   (setq success (funcall (caddr elem) arg)))
 	  (setq sent t))))
-    (unless (or sent (not success))
+    (unless (or sent (not success)
+		(let ((fcc (message-fetch-field "Fcc"))
+		      (gcc (message-fetch-field "Gcc")))
+		  (and (or fcc gcc)
+		       (setq dont-barf-on-no-method 
+			     (gnus-y-or-n-p
+			      (format "No receiver, perform %s anyway? "
+				      (cond ((and fcc gcc) "Fcc and Gcc")
+					    (fcc "Fcc")
+					    (t "Gcc"))))))))
       (error "No methods specified to send by"))
-    (when (and success sent)
+    (when (or dont-barf-on-no-method
+	      (and success sent))
       (message-do-fcc)
       (save-excursion
 	(run-hooks 'message-sent-hook))

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Amos Gouaux]

>>>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:19:43 +0100,
>>>>> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> (sj) writes:

sj> prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:
>> Not nnmaildir.  (Wasn't the nnml version added to the other nnmail
>> backends?)  I was hoping somebody would make the necessary changes to
>> allow messages to be delivered only to Gcc, so I wouldn't have to
>> bother.  Maybe I'll do that myself.

sj> Does this work?  (I've committed it.)

Cool.  Thanks.  (Works for nnimap groups.)

-- 
Amos

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Paul Jarc]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:
> Does this work?  (I've committed it.)

Whee!  Thanks.

> +		(let ((fcc (message-fetch-field "Fcc"))
> +		      (gcc (message-fetch-field "Gcc")))

Should there be some kind of check here to see whether Gnus is
running?  Or maybe the patch below is enough.

> +			     (gnus-y-or-n-p
> +			      (format "No receiver, perform %s anyway? "

How about this:
	* message.el (message-send): Customize the prompting when
        posting to Gcc/Fcc alone.

Index: lisp/message.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /usr/local/cvsroot/gnus/lisp/message.el,v
retrieving revision 6.161
diff -u -r6.161 message.el
--- lisp/message.el	2001/11/19 09:56:48	6.161
+++ lisp/message.el	2001/11/20 02:15:14
@@ -452,6 +452,16 @@
   :group 'message-interface
   :type '(repeat regexp))
 
+(defcustom message-allow-gcc-fcc-alone 'ask
+  "*Specifies what to do when a message has no recipients other than
+Gcc or Fcc.  If it is the symbol `always', the posting is allowed.  If
+it is the symbol `never', the posting is not allowed.  If it is the
+symbol `ask', you are prompted."
+  :group 'message-interface
+  :type '(choice (const always)
+		 (const never)
+		 (const ask)))
+
 (defcustom message-sendmail-f-is-evil nil
   "*Non-nil means don't add \"-f username\" to the sendmail command line.
 Doing so would be even more evil than leaving it out."
@@ -2520,12 +2530,14 @@
 		(let ((fcc (message-fetch-field "Fcc"))
 		      (gcc (message-fetch-field "Gcc")))
 		  (and (or fcc gcc)
-		       (setq dont-barf-on-no-method 
-			     (gnus-y-or-n-p
-			      (format "No receiver, perform %s anyway? "
-				      (cond ((and fcc gcc) "Fcc and Gcc")
-					    (fcc "Fcc")
-					    (t "Gcc"))))))))
+		       (or (eq message-allow-gcc-fcc-alone 'always)
+			   (and (not (eq message-allow-gcc-fcc-alone 'never))
+				(setq dont-barf-on-no-method
+				      (gnus-y-or-n-p
+				       (format "No receiver, perform %s anyway? "
+					       (cond ((and fcc gcc) "Fcc and Gcc")
+						     (fcc "Fcc")
+						     (t "Gcc"))))))))))
       (error "No methods specified to send by"))
     (when (or dont-barf-on-no-method
 	      (and success sent))


paul

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Simon Josefsson]

prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:

>> +		(let ((fcc (message-fetch-field "Fcc"))
>> +		      (gcc (message-fetch-field "Gcc")))
>
> Should there be some kind of check here to see whether Gnus is
> running?  Or maybe the patch below is enough.

I think so.  If there is a Gcc and Gnus isn't running, it should
probably be handled somewhere else.

> How about this:
> 	* message.el (message-send): Customize the prompting when
>         posting to Gcc/Fcc alone.

I modified it a bit, and committed it.  (Don't use "*" as the first
character of variable documentation unless the user should set the
variable with M-x set-variable RET.)

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Paul Jarc]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:
> prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:
>> +(defcustom message-allow-gcc-fcc-alone 'ask
>> +  "*Specifies what to do when a message has no recipients other than
>> +Gcc or Fcc.  If it is the symbol `always', the posting is allowed.  If
>> +it is the symbol `never', the posting is not allowed.  If it is the
>> +symbol `ask', you are prompted."
>> +  :group 'message-interface
>> +  :type '(choice (const always)
>> +		 (const never)
>> +		 (const ask)))
>
> I modified it a bit, and committed it.  (Don't use "*" as the first
> character of variable documentation unless the user should set the
> variable with M-x set-variable RET.)

Why shouldn't that be allowed here?  It seems to work for me.


paul

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Simon Josefsson]

prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:

> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:
>> prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:
>>> +(defcustom message-allow-gcc-fcc-alone 'ask
>>> +  "*Specifies what to do when a message has no recipients other than
>>> +Gcc or Fcc.  If it is the symbol `always', the posting is allowed.  If
>>> +it is the symbol `never', the posting is not allowed.  If it is the
>>> +symbol `ask', you are prompted."
>>> +  :group 'message-interface
>>> +  :type '(choice (const always)
>>> +		 (const never)
>>> +		 (const ask)))
>>
>> I modified it a bit, and committed it.  (Don't use "*" as the first
>> character of variable documentation unless the user should set the
>> variable with M-x set-variable RET.)
>
> Why shouldn't that be allowed here?  It seems to work for me.

It works, but a "*" as the first character in variable documentation
signals to Emacs that the variable is something that the user would
like to be able to set interactively with M-x set-variable RET.  I
think it should be reserved for really interactive variables such as
case-fold-search.

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Kai Großjohann]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> It works, but a "*" as the first character in variable documentation
> signals to Emacs that the variable is something that the user would
> like to be able to set interactively with M-x set-variable RET.  I
> think it should be reserved for really interactive variables such as
> case-fold-search.

Yes, message-allow-gcc-fcc-alone will probably be set in the init
files, but it's unlikely that the user wants to change it while Emacs
is running.

kai
-- 
Simplification good!  Oversimplification bad!  (Larry Wall)

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Paul Jarc]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:
> prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:
>> Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> wrote:
>>> I modified it a bit, and committed it.  (Don't use "*" as the first
>>> character of variable documentation unless the user should set the
>>> variable with M-x set-variable RET.)
>>
>> Why shouldn't that be allowed here?  It seems to work for me.
>
> It works, but a "*" as the first character in variable documentation
> signals to Emacs that the variable is something that the user would
> like to be able to set interactively with M-x set-variable RET.

Right.  M-x set-variable RET is what I'm saying works for me.  (I
though maybe the customize stuff might break it somehow, but it
didn't.)  I can see that users would not set the variable this way
very often, but I don't see why we should prohibit it.  What harm does
it do to allow it?


paul

Re: Semi-recent addition - mailto local groups

[Simon Josefsson]

prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) writes:

>>> Why shouldn't that be allowed here?  It seems to work for me.
>>
>> It works, but a "*" as the first character in variable documentation
>> signals to Emacs that the variable is something that the user would
>> like to be able to set interactively with M-x set-variable RET.
>
> Right.  M-x set-variable RET is what I'm saying works for me.

Ah, ok.

> (I though maybe the customize stuff might break it somehow, but it
> didn't.)  I can see that users would not set the variable this way
> very often, but I don't see why we should prohibit it.  What harm
> does it do to allow it?

Polute the namespace for interactively set variables?  It's not easy
to decide if this variable is something you would set interactively,
but if all variables are allowed to be set interactively, there is
little use of the "*" character.  Hm.  Which I kind of agree with
(that the "*" character is useless, that is), all user variables can
be set interactively and per-session using Custom anyway.  O well, I
dunno.