* MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) [not found] <x7vhjjzeg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> @ 1998-12-11 14:22 ` Jack Vinson 1998-12-11 14:36 ` Norbert Koch ` (2 more replies) 1998-12-13 8:52 ` Gnus and Crypto stuff Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-12-13 22:50 ` Dave Love 2 siblings, 3 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Jack Vinson @ 1998-12-11 14:22 UTC (permalink / raw) The message from our Stainless Steel Rat is supposed to be a MIME message, but pgnus 0.62 read it as a flat text file, so I saw the lovely message: This is a MIME multipart message. If you are reading this, you shouldn't. Actually, this message was inserted twice. Once before the beginning of the PGP signature and once after. It looked to me like there should have been about three parts, but that the PGP signature broke the MIME parsing somehow. -- Jack Vinson <jvinson@chevax.ecs.umass.edu> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~vinson/ Zippy: I'm also against BODY-SURFING!! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) 1998-12-11 14:22 ` MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) Jack Vinson @ 1998-12-11 14:36 ` Norbert Koch 1998-12-11 15:14 ` Karl Kleinpaste [not found] ` <x7u2z2wvg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 2 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Norbert Koch @ 1998-12-11 14:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Jack Vinson <jvinson@chevax.ecs.umass.edu> writes: > The message from our Stainless Steel Rat is supposed to be a MIME message, > but pgnus 0.62 read it as a flat text file, so I saw the lovely message: > This is a MIME multipart message. If you are reading > this, you shouldn't. [...] Same with 0.65. -- Then, it's off to RED CHINA!! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) 1998-12-11 14:22 ` MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) Jack Vinson 1998-12-11 14:36 ` Norbert Koch @ 1998-12-11 15:14 ` Karl Kleinpaste 1998-12-11 15:55 ` Jack Vinson [not found] ` <x7u2z2wvg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Karl Kleinpaste @ 1998-12-11 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Jack Vinson <jvinson@chevax.ecs.umass.edu> writes: > It looked to me like there should have been about three parts, but > that the PGP signature broke the MIME parsing somehow. Assuming that one wants to PGP-sign an entire message, one needs the ability for Gnus to MIME-encode the whole thing and then let MailCrypt do its PGP thing to the result. Similarly, on receipt, we need the ability to make gnus-article-hide-pgp happen rather early on, followed by MIME decoding. The fundamental problem we're up against is that, at least for the recipient, PGP armor is removed rather late in the game, long after Gnus has reached its conclusions about the MIME components in the message. PGP needs to be the last thing added and the first thing removed. I'm not really sure what semantic would be in order, if one wanted to PGP-sign individual components of a message, rather than the whole thing. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) 1998-12-11 15:14 ` Karl Kleinpaste @ 1998-12-11 15:55 ` Jack Vinson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Jack Vinson @ 1998-12-11 15:55 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "KK" == Karl Kleinpaste <karl@justresearch.com> writes: KK> Jack Vinson <jvinson@chevax.ecs.umass.edu> writes: >> It looked to me like there should have been about three parts, but >> that the PGP signature broke the MIME parsing somehow. KK> Assuming that one wants to PGP-sign an entire message, one needs the KK> ability for Gnus to MIME-encode the whole thing and then let MailCrypt KK> do its PGP thing to the result. Similarly, on receipt, we need the KK> ability to make gnus-article-hide-pgp happen rather early on, followed KK> by MIME decoding. The fundamental problem we're up against is that, KK> at least for the recipient, PGP armor is removed rather late in the KK> game, long after Gnus has reached its conclusions about the MIME KK> components in the message. PGP needs to be the last thing added and KK> the first thing removed. KK> I'm not really sure what semantic would be in order, if one wanted to KK> PGP-sign individual components of a message, rather than the whole KK> thing. At least for message-send, the current set of actions is something like - fixup the message - encode the message body - run message-send-hook - send the message - message-header-hook, message-send-mail-hook or message-send-news-hook - deal with fcc - run message-sent-hook - housekeeping It looks like message-send-mail/news-hook are run with the final version of the message (i.e. just before it goes out to the world). I am guess this is where the pgp stuff *should* be called. But that means adding pgp to two hooks instead of just one. As I mentioned earlier, I would like a hook that is called before the message body is encoded so that things like ispell-message don't have to deal with the MIME stuff. -- Jack Vinson <jvinson@chevax.ecs.umass.edu> http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~vinson/ Zippy: I'm shaving!! I'M SHAVING!! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
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* Re: MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) [not found] ` <x7u2z2wvg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> @ 1998-12-11 15:34 ` Karl Kleinpaste 1998-12-11 16:12 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Karl Kleinpaste @ 1998-12-11 15:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes: > If you have gnus-article-hide-pgp in your gnus-article-prepare-hook, > everything comes out all hunky-dory. Oh! That's the piece I was missing. I'd forgotten about the -prepare-hook, being stuck only on the -display-hook. /mutter/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) [not found] ` <x7u2z2wvg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1998-12-11 15:34 ` Karl Kleinpaste @ 1998-12-11 16:12 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Robert Bihlmeyer @ 1998-12-11 16:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, >>>>> On 11 Dec 1998 10:27:02 -0500 >>>>> Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> said: Rat> If you have gnus-article-hide-pgp in your Rat> gnus-article-prepare-hook, everything comes out all hunky-dory. There are mailers other than gnus, I saw them myself, I swear ... aaaaargh CARRIER LOST -- Robert Bihlmeyer reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM! <robbe@orcus.priv.at> <http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff [not found] <x7vhjjzeg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1998-12-11 14:22 ` MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) Jack Vinson @ 1998-12-13 8:52 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-12-17 18:28 ` Jason R Mastaler 1998-12-13 22:50 ` Dave Love 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-12-13 8:52 UTC (permalink / raw) Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes: > Of particular note, software released under the GPL, such as Gnus, > is by definition "made available without restrictions upon its > further dissemination." In other words, as far as Wassenaar is > concerned, Gnus is in the public domain (even if they are misusing > the term "public domain"). I'm not quite sure -- they use "without restrictions", and all GPL'd software has one restriction -- it's impossible to impose further restrictions. :-) Anyway, I don't understand what the point of Wassenar is. Crypto software is everywhere and imposing these weird export restrictions is, well, weird. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff 1998-12-13 8:52 ` Gnus and Crypto stuff Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-12-17 18:28 ` Jason R Mastaler 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Jason R Mastaler @ 1998-12-17 18:28 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Anyway, I don't understand what the point of Wassenar is. Crypto > software is everywhere and imposing these weird export restrictions > is, well, weird. For those of you who disagree with the Wassenaar Arrangement, I'd recommend voicing these concerns to your respective governments. Visit <URL:http://www.freecrypto.org/> for more info. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff [not found] <x7vhjjzeg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1998-12-11 14:22 ` MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) Jack Vinson 1998-12-13 8:52 ` Gnus and Crypto stuff Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1998-12-13 22:50 ` Dave Love 1998-12-13 23:02 ` Hrvoje Niksic 2 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Dave Love @ 1998-12-13 22:50 UTC (permalink / raw) A citation for the `GENERAL SOFTWARE NOTE' would be useful in view of the current GNU appeal for volunteers outside the afflicted countries to do crypto work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff 1998-12-13 22:50 ` Dave Love @ 1998-12-13 23:02 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-12-14 18:26 ` Dave Love [not found] ` <x7r9u3mycp.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-12-13 23:02 UTC (permalink / raw) Dave Love <d.love@dl.ac.uk> writes: > A citation for the `GENERAL SOFTWARE NOTE' would be useful in view > of the current GNU appeal for volunteers outside the afflicted > countries to do crypto work. On a different note: is the agreement retroactive? I mean, are my old programs suddenly unexportable? The reason why I ask is this: for instance, I have a feeling that Croatia didn't sign the agreement not because the government would disagree, but simply because we are out of the general loop. If, a few years from now, Croatia signs the agreement, will my potential crypto become endangered wrt export? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff 1998-12-13 23:02 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1998-12-14 18:26 ` Dave Love [not found] ` <x7r9u3mycp.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Dave Love @ 1998-12-14 18:26 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "HN" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: HN> On a different note: is the agreement retroactive? I mean, are HN> my old programs suddenly unexportable? One would rather expect so if this sort of law was enacted... I found the citation anyhow: <URL:http://jya.com/wa/watoc.htm#General>; see also the `definitions of terms' link from the same page. Not that it looks as though that will be relevant under the current regime in the UK :-(. -- There's no reason for it Minister, it's just policy. -- Humphrey Appleby ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
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* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff [not found] ` <x7r9u3mycp.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> @ 1998-12-15 1:59 ` David Hedbor 1998-12-15 3:15 ` Johan Danielsson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: David Hedbor @ 1998-12-15 1:59 UTC (permalink / raw) Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes: > Hash: SHA1 > > "Hrvoje" == Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > Hrvoje> On a different note: is the agreement retroactive? I mean, are my > Hrvoje> old programs suddenly unexportable? > > Wassenaar is more or less 33 nations saying, "we think these are good > ideas". Compliance with Wassenaar is not mandatory for any of the > signatory nations. It is not law unless your government institutes > Wassenaar or some variant into law. AFAIK, no nation has yet done so. This is unfortunately incorrect. For example Sweden has had strict Crypto export laws since 1995 (from the first Wassenaar I believe). Also ISP has imposed stronger restriction on export of Roxen than the law required due to a possible future stricter, US-friendly law. I don't know the exact details, but Sweden is just as bad as the US, if not worse. Also Microsoft has been a strong force behind the new Wassenaar, since they want equal possibilities to sell crypto software outside of the US (of course non-US companies has a much harder time in the US because of it). Anyway, http://www.roxen.com/crypto/ is a good place for more information about the Swedish crypto situation. -- [ Below is a random fortune, which is unrelated to the above message. ] During the voyage of life, remember to keep an eye out for a fair wind; batten down during a storm; hail all passing ships; and fly your colors proudly. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff 1998-12-15 1:59 ` David Hedbor @ 1998-12-15 3:15 ` Johan Danielsson 1998-12-15 4:55 ` David Hedbor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Johan Danielsson @ 1998-12-15 3:15 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding David Hedbor <david@hedbor.org> writes: > For example Sweden has had strict Crypto export laws since 1995 > (from the first Wassenaar I believe). This is not really correct either. The law very clearly says that you can export (publicly available) software. ISP's (the strategic arms control authority) interpretation of the law is very different from what other make out of it. /Johan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: Gnus and Crypto stuff 1998-12-15 3:15 ` Johan Danielsson @ 1998-12-15 4:55 ` David Hedbor 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: David Hedbor @ 1998-12-15 4:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: David Hedbor, ding joda@pdc.kth.se (Johan Danielsson) writes: > David Hedbor <david@hedbor.org> writes: > > > For example Sweden has had strict Crypto export laws since 1995 > > (from the first Wassenaar I believe). > > This is not really correct either. The law very clearly says that you > can export (publicly available) software. ISP's (the strategic arms > control authority) interpretation of the law is very different from > what other make out of it. I said that ISP does impose stricter rules than the law in preparation for possible future changes (or so they say). -- [ Below is a random fortune, which is unrelated to the above message. ] And on the seventh day, He exited from append mode. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1998-12-17 18:28 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <x7vhjjzeg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1998-12-11 14:22 ` MIME and PGP (was: Gnus and Crypto stuff) Jack Vinson 1998-12-11 14:36 ` Norbert Koch 1998-12-11 15:14 ` Karl Kleinpaste 1998-12-11 15:55 ` Jack Vinson [not found] ` <x7u2z2wvg9.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1998-12-11 15:34 ` Karl Kleinpaste 1998-12-11 16:12 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1998-12-13 8:52 ` Gnus and Crypto stuff Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1998-12-17 18:28 ` Jason R Mastaler 1998-12-13 22:50 ` Dave Love 1998-12-13 23:02 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1998-12-14 18:26 ` Dave Love [not found] ` <x7r9u3mycp.fsf@peorth.gweep.net> 1998-12-15 1:59 ` David Hedbor 1998-12-15 3:15 ` Johan Danielsson 1998-12-15 4:55 ` David Hedbor
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