From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/17048 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Kleinpaste Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: User interface confusion; p0.30 invokes VM? Date: 13 Sep 1998 09:48:51 -400 Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035155818 31300 80.91.224.250 (20 Oct 2002 23:16:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:16:58 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: Original-Received: from gizmo.hpc.uh.edu (gizmo.hpc.uh.edu [129.7.102.31]) by sclp3.sclp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21153 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (sina.hpc.uh.edu [129.7.3.5]) by gizmo.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAF21290; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:20:50 -0500 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:49:35 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (root@sclp3.sclp.com [209.195.19.139]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14013 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:49:26 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from pocari-sweat.jprc.com (POCARI-SWEAT.JPRC.COM [207.86.147.217]) by sclp3.sclp.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21143 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:49:21 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: (from karl@localhost) by pocari-sweat.jprc.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21341; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:48:51 -0400 Original-To: ding@gnus.org X-Face: "5(T0tZd{6}pd~YzBG8O/*EW,.]6]@`m^e;fv65W^Y&=d"M\1H}>T~4_.kcDD.O~y3k)a6h R;Nmi>9|>Nm${2IpM0^RcUEa\jcq?KOP)C&~x51l~zCHTulL^_T|u0I^kB'z@]{`2YjQu Original-Lines: 79 User-Agent: Gnus/5.07003 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.30) XEmacs/20.4 (Emerald) Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:17048 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:17048 I just started using Pterodactyl; I disabled TM in .gnus this morning, to try out things with p0.30. I got this message: [ 56: Francine Raley ] [Fwd: The "other" munch] Its displayed content is: ________________ From: Francine Raley Subject: [Fwd: The "other" munch] To: karl@jprc.com X-Sent: 1 day, 11 hours, 40 minutes, 19 seconds ago [text/plain] Let me know what you think. [message/rfc822] ________________ XEmacs is in an xterm; I have no buttons to mouse-push directly. I have to cross a *Tree* buffer on the way to *Article*, that is, I have to do `C-x o' twice just to get a weapon near the victim. Once I get there, hitting RET on "[message/rfc822]" invokes VM. Huh? Sure, I see the content of the message. Wondering what keybindings are available to me, I hit `C-h m'. I got a *Help* buffer which says "This is VM 6.43." I don't even have `<' and `>' keys for top and bottom of the message -- they're bound to vm-{top,bottom}-of-message, but hitting them gives me complaints, "Unknown folder type." Trying to `q' out of this nightmare causes me to lose every displayed buffer except the message itself (still in VM mode), with a minibuf query about what folder in which to save the message. Huh? I don't want to save it at all, I just want to get back to *Article* or *Summary*. I hit `C-g', leaving me still with just the VM-mode subarticle. I had to kill the buffer, which somehow left me in *Original Article*, so I had to select *Summary* the hard way. I tried the `C-d' thing on the same message. Selecting the 1st subarticle did the obvious thing. Selecting the 2nd gave me another "clickable" message/rfc822 again, rather than showing me the enclosed message itself as the total content of that piece, as I expected intuitively. "Fool me once" etc, so I didn't hit RET on it again. Not that time, anyway. Though it's painful over a phone line, I invoked XEmacs under X and tried again. The VM invocation induces a left-margin graphic toolbar, for which it extended my XEmacs out to the right by an inch or so, to preserve the visible text space for me, I guess. But considering that I already use a 204x89 XEmacs on this 1280x1024 screen in a 10pt font, that newly-extended right side of XEmacs went right off the right edge of my screen entirely. Huh? Finding a way to quit out of VM mode, the extra space taken by VM's graphic toolbar was not reclaimed, so now I'm stuck with a too-large XEmacs. If I go back into Gnus and screw up my courage to face off against an unwanted VM invocation again, will it extend XEmacs to the right *again*? I don't know, and I'm not going to find out. This is all so incredibly non-intuitive at this point. How did a VM invocation get into Gnus? There are reasons why I *don't* use VM. I'll be the first to admit if I simply don't know what's going on, if I've missed some announcement about the necessary .gnus requirements to start Pterodactyl, or if there are other selections available for how to view enclosed subarticles, but right now, I'm strongly inclined to say that there's a very large violation of the Principle of Least Astonishment: All I did was to disable TM in .gnus and start Gnus. RH5.1 Linux, XEmacs 20.4 [MULEless, from RH contrib rpm], p0.30. Late observation: RET on "[message/rfc822]" alternates between invoking VM and apparently being a NOP. --karl