Gnus v5.4.4 is released

Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Bug fixes.

Get it from <URL:http://www.ifi.uio.no/~larsi/gnus.tar.gz> or 
"ftp.ifi.uio.no:/pub/emacs/gnus/".

ChangeLog since last release:

Mon Jan 27 08:54:55 1997  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@menja.ifi.uio.no>

	* gnus.el: Gnus v5.4.4 is released.

Mon Jan 27 07:29:30 1997  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@ifi.uio.no>

	* nnsoup.el (nnsoup-file-name): Also find AREAS.

Mon Jan 27 07:09:13 1997  Joev Dubach  <dubach1@husc.harvard.edu>

	* message.el (message-use-followup-to): Doc fix.

Mon Jan 27 06:59:14 1997  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@ifi.uio.no>

	* gnus-art.el (gnus-article-read-summary-keys): Don't mess up when
	using pick mode.

	* gnus-undo.el (gnus-undo-mode): Set undo boundary.

	* gnus-sum.el (gnus-summary-exit-hook): Doc fix.

Sun Jan 26 13:20:42 1997  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@ifi.uio.no>

	* gnus.el: Autoload gnus-add-configuration.



-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Lars Balker Rasmussen]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:
> 	* gnus.el: Gnus v5.4.4 is released.

Yet it still claims to be 5.4.3.  Your scripts seem buggy :-)
-- 
Lars Balker Rasmussen                   <URL:http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~gnort/>

			     Wind the frog!

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Steven L Baur]

Vital patch for Gnus 5.4.4:

===================================================================
RCS file: RCS/gnus.el,v
retrieving revision 1.3
diff -u -r1.3 gnus.el
--- gnus.el	1997/01/27 10:49:08	1.3
+++ gnus.el	1997/01/27 10:55:34
@@ -154,7 +154,7 @@
   :link '(custom-manual "(gnus)Various Various")
   :group 'gnus)
 
-(defconst gnus-version-number "5.4.3"
+(defconst gnus-version-number "5.4.4"
   "Version number for this version of Gnus.")
 
 (defconst gnus-version (format "Gnus v%s" gnus-version-number)

-- 
steve@miranova.com baur
Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be billed at $250/message.

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "LMI" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

LMI> Bug fixes.

Documentation needs to be updated.  gnus-display-type no longer exists,
but the documentation says it does.  What has replaced gnus-display-type?

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Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | core, which, if exposed due to
A Stone & Webster Company                 | rupture, should not be touched,
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Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> writes:

> Documentation needs to be updated.  gnus-display-type no longer exists,
> but the documentation says it does. 

I've now updated the manual.

> What has replaced gnus-display-type?

It's now all done by customize.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "LMI" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:

>> What has replaced gnus-display-type?
LMI> It's now all done by customize.

Uh-huh.  I set gnus-display-type to 'mono because the default colors are
nigh-illegible and I do not want any colors anyway.

customize uses the same nigh-illegible colors.

This is a total loose-loose situation: I cannot turn colorization off
with a simple switch, and I cannot use the much more complex utility
provided to do the same thing because it uses the same colors I want to
disable because I cannot read them.

Pardon me while I upgrade back to 5.2.40.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Do not use Happy Fun Ball on
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | concrete.
A Stone & Webster Company                 | 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | 

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Brent B. Powers]

Rich Pieri writes:
 > >>>>> "LMI" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes:
 > 
 > >> What has replaced gnus-display-type?
 > LMI> It's now all done by customize.
 > 
 > Uh-huh.  I set gnus-display-type to 'mono because the default colors are
 > nigh-illegible and I do not want any colors anyway.
 > 
 > customize uses the same nigh-illegible colors.
 > 
 > This is a total loose-loose situation: I cannot turn colorization off
 > with a simple switch, and I cannot use the much more complex utility
 > provided to do the same thing because it uses the same colors I want to
 > disable because I cannot read them.
 > 
 > Pardon me while I upgrade back to 5.2.40.

<kvetch>

Not to mention the fact that customize is to slow to be believed...

</kvetch>

On the other hand, gnus itself looks lovely!!!

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "BBP" == Brent B Powers <powers@ml.com> writes:

BBP> On the other hand, gnus itself looks lovely!!!

It does?  It looks like mud to me.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Do not use Happy Fun Ball on
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | concrete.
A Stone & Webster Company                 | 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | 

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Sudish Joseph]

> Rich Pieri writes:
>> Uh-huh.  I set gnus-display-type to 'mono because the default colors are
>> nigh-illegible and I do not want any colors anyway.
>> 
>> customize uses the same nigh-illegible colors.

`custom-background-mode'

Compiled Lisp function:

 arguments: ()

 Kludge to detext background mode.

Variable:

  value: dark

  The brightness of the background.
  Set this to the symbol dark if your background color is dark, light if
  your background is light, or nil (default) if you want Emacs to
  examine the brightness for you.

The function tries hard to guess correctly, help it by setting the variable.

-Sudish

custom colors (was Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released)

[Colin Rafferty]

Sudish Joseph writes:
>> Rich Pieri writes:

>>> Uh-huh.  I set gnus-display-type to 'mono because the default colors are
>>> nigh-illegible and I do not want any colors anyway.

>>> customize uses the same nigh-illegible colors.

> `custom-background-mode'

> The function tries hard to guess correctly, help it by setting the variable.

I have to jump in here.  I will bet that the problem is not with
`custom-background-mode' guessing incorrectly.  I used to see the exact
same problem myself, and I had a black (#000000) background.  Some of the
default colors for `dark' are thoroughly unreadable on a black background.

I guess that one day, I will succumb to the inevitable and actually
create a .custom.el file (or wherever it saves its information).  Until
then, I continue to have X resources for faces, and the following lines
in my .gnus.el:

    (make-face 'gnus-header-content-face)
    (make-face 'gnus-header-from-face)
    (make-face 'gnus-header-name-face)
    (make-face 'gnus-header-newsgroups-face)
    (make-face 'gnus-header-subject-face)

Rich, you may want to try this yourself (unless you just don't like colors).

-- 
Colin

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "SJ" == Sudish Joseph <sudish@mindspring.com> writes:

>>> customize uses the same nigh-illegible colors.
SJ> `custom-background-mode'
[...]

I seem to recall going through this back when September went into beta.
Gnus' default colors are LOUSY on midnight blue no matter what anyone
does.  Reds and blues (and some greens) show up as nothing more than a
blur if they are apparant at all.

No, I want to turn colorizing OFF, 100% completely OFF.  I want to see
*my* lightgoldenrod text on *my* midnightblue background, and nothing
else.  I do not want to deal with a bazillion configuration variables in
an obtuse configurator program.  I want a single setq that will turn
colors absolutely and unequivocably off, right now, no fuss, no mess.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Do not use Happy Fun Ball on
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | concrete.
A Stone & Webster Company                 | 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | 

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Sudish Joseph]

Rich Pieri writes:
> an obtuse configurator program.  I want a single setq that will turn
> colors absolutely and unequivocably off, right now, no fuss, no mess.

gnus-visual's value is t
  -- a variable declared in Lisp.

Documentation:
Enable visual features.
If `visual' is disabled, there will be no menus and few faces.  Most of
the visual customization options below will be ignored.  Gnus will use
less space and be faster as a result.

If you wish for finer-grained control, grep for occurences of that
variable and split it into gnus-use-menus and gnus-use-colors.

-Sudish

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Sudish Joseph <sudish@mindspring.com>:

> Rich Pieri writes:
>> an obtuse configurator program.  I want a single setq that will turn
>> colors absolutely and unequivocably off, right now, no fuss, no mess.

> gnus-visual's value is t
>   -- a variable declared in Lisp.

> Documentation:
> Enable visual features.
> If `visual' is disabled, there will be no menus and few faces.  

[snip!]

No menus... now that's a bit drastic... doncha think?

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Per Abrahamsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

> No menus... now that's a bit drastic... doncha think?

Actually, the documentation string is outdated.  You can control
individual features with this variable.

The easiest way to do edit it is to type

	M-x customize-variable RET gnus-visual RET

and uncheck the items you don't want.

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "PA" == Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

PA> The easiest way to do edit it is to type
PA> 	M-x customize-variable RET gnus-visual RET
PA> and uncheck the items you don't want.

Uh-huh.  So, which of these items do I turn off to disable colors
without disabling face properties (bold, underline, italic)?

I think it should be clear that removing something simple and replacing
it with something relatively complicated and thoroughly undocumented
(not even a "we removed such-and-such; here is how to do the same thing
now") is a really bad idea.

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-- 
Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | types of skin.
A Stone & Webster Company                 | 
I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | 

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Sudish Joseph]

Rich Pieri writes:
> I think it should be clear that removing something simple and
> replacing it with something relatively complicated and thoroughly
> undocumented (not even a "we removed such-and-such; here is how to
> do the same thing now") is a really bad idea.

Per seems to have gone to great lengths to make sure that customize
does not interfere with the person who likes to set stuff in
.emacs/.gnus.  I.e., you do not have to use it, set gnus-visual in
your .gnus if you like.

The only thing lacking here is the gnus-visual doc string, but that's
been that way for a long time and is entirely independent of
customize.  Since it's a beta list, you might consider RTFS.
Customize is a good thing; but it cannot help those who will not help
themselves.

-Sudish

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "SJ" == Sudish Joseph <sudish@mindspring.com> writes:

SJ> Per seems to have gone to great lengths to make sure that customize
SJ> does not interfere with the person who likes to set stuff in
SJ> .emacs/.gnus.  I.e., you do not have to use it, set gnus-visual in
SJ> your .gnus if you like.

"Disabling" gnus-visual disables font properties (bold, underline,
italic) along with colors, which is something I do not want.  Setting
gnus-display-type to 'mono disabled colors without disabling anything
else.  That functionality "vector" has been eliminated.

Admittedly it was a hack, but it worked simply and elegantly, making it
a prize among hacks.

What I want to know, and nobody has provided an acceptable answer, yet,
is what has replaced it.  The utility that is supposed to make this
nigh-effortless is nigh-unusable for exactly the reasons I need to use
it.  The documentation is either totally useless or nonexistant.  The
source code is some of the most convoluted I have ever seen.

If I cannot find the answers in the "obvious" places, how can you expect
J. Random User to find them?

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Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | 
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I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | 

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Per Abrahamsen]

Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@PrescientTech.com> writes:

> What I want to know, and nobody has provided an acceptable answer, yet,
> is what has replaced it.

Nothing really.  The old hack wasn't really intended to be a user
option.  There just wasn't any convenient way to enquiry for the
available color support in a frame.  So a global variable was used.  I
took up the problem with RMS, and he added a `display-type' frame
parameter.  The XEmacs people invented a `device-class' function to do
the same all by themselves.[1]

So in Emacs you can use

	(add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(display-type . mono))

while in XEmacs you can use

	(defun device-class (&rest ignore) 'mono)

to lie about your color support.  These `new hacks' will affect more
than just the faces declared by customize, but an option to lie only
to the faces declared with customize would be weird, in my opinion.

The `display-type' and `background-mode' frame parameters are not very
well documented in Emacs, I suggest you send a polite bug report /
request for enhancement to RMS.

-- 
Per Abrahamsen

[1] Annoying conflict in terminology here.  Emacs use `window-system'
where XEmacs uses `device-type', while Emacs `display-type' is the
same as XEmacs calls `device-class'.  Emacs also have
`background-mode' with no direct equivalent in XEmacs.

Turn Gnus' colors off (was Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released)

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "PA" == Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes:

PA> So in Emacs you can use
PA> 	(add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(display-type . mono))

And if I read this right it will disable *all* color properties, not
just in Gnus but everything.

I want to turn Gnus' colors off.  Nothing more, nothing less.  How do I
do it?

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Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Caution: Happy Fun Ball may
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | suddenly accelerate to dangerous
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I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | 

Re: Turn Gnus' colors off (was Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released)

[Per Abrahamsen]

Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@PrescientTech.com> writes:

> And if I read this right it will disable *all* color properties, not
> just in Gnus but everything.

Yes.  In Gnus and `makefile-mode', according to `grep'.  And in more
modes in the future, as they will include support the `display-type'
frame parameter.

> I want to turn Gnus' colors off.

There are several solutions, but they all require some work.  If you
are willing to do some work, I'll describe them.  If not, I have an
alternative suggestion.

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Rich Pieri]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>>>> "SB" == Steinar Bang <sb@metis.no> writes:

>> If `visual' is disabled, there will be no menus and few faces.  
SB> [snip!]
SB> No menus... now that's a bit drastic... doncha think?

No... as a matter of fact, I don't.  No menus = one or two more lines of
real estate to be used for something useful.

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Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@prescienttech.com> | Warning: pregnant women, the
Prescient Technologies, Inc.              | elderly, and children under 10
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I speak for myself, not PTI or SWEC       | Happy Fun Ball.

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Per Abrahamsen]

"Brent B. Powers" <powers@ml.com> writes:

> Not to mention the fact that customize is to slow to be believed...

You can use edit-faces to set faces on XEmacs, and setq to set
variables.  Nothing forces you to use customize.

Re: Gnus v5.4.4 is released

[Per Abrahamsen]

Rich Pieri <rich.pieri@PrescientTech.com> writes:

> Uh-huh.  I set gnus-display-type to 'mono because the default colors are
> nigh-illegible and I do not want any colors anyway.

(defun device-class (&rest ignore) 'mono)