various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Uwe Brauer]

Hello

I think I still did not understand completely the idea of servers and there
relevant backends. I want two things:

    - I would  like  to download  mails from  a  POP3 account and
      store it in a nnml format. So I have set:
      %%for the nnml backend      
      (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
			 '(nnml "POP3-GMX" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/POP3-GMX")))

      %% for the pop3 server
      (eval-after-load "mail-source"
       '(add-to-list 'mail-sources '(pop :server "pop.gmx.net"
                                     :user "5224480")))

        this leads to                                      
             41: nnml+POP3-GMX:mail.misc
        in my Group summary buffer (the directory my mail ends up is
        /home/oub/Mail/POP3-GMX/mail/misc)

    - I also  want to store older mail,  from my vm folders using
      the   nnml     backend.   (I set     message   directory to
      "~Mail/MESSAGES"), respooled the  mail of my vm folders (as
      described in  the manual.) To my  horror those messages end
      up   in  the     mail.misc    directory.  But   this     is
      /home/oub/Mail/POP3-GMX/mail/misc.  In other words archived
      mail when    respooled end up where my    mails of the pop3
      server. That is not what I want.
      When I use gnus-group-enter-server-mode, I se
     {nnml:} (opened)
     {nnml:POP3-GMX} (opened)
     now both nnml servers contain the same groups:

     111: OUTBOX (some already archived mails form a vm folder)
      47: mail.misc (mail of my pop3 server)

     I would like to have 
     111: OUTBOX (some already archived mails form a vm folder)
     only in the
     {nnml:} (opened)
     server and      
      47: mail.misc (mail of my pop3 server)
     the
     {nnml:POP3-GMX} (opened)
     server

How can I define two independent servers with the nnml backend.

Thanks

Uwe Brauer

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, oub@mat.ucm.es wrote:

> How can I define two independent servers with the nnml backend.

This should work:

(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
  '(nnml "POP3-GMX" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/POP3-GMX"))
  '(nnml "OTHER" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/OTHER")))

You can also do `a' from the Server buffer, add an nnml server, then
hit `e' to edit the parameters and add the nnml-directory.

Ted

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

    Ted> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, oub@mat.ucm.es wrote:
    >> How can I define two independent servers with the nnml backend.

    Ted> This should work:

    Ted> (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
    Ted>   '(nnml "POP3-GMX" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/POP3-GMX"))
    Ted>   '(nnml "OTHER" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/OTHER")))

Right,  ok thanks. The only  odd thing is  that the groups in POP3-GMX
get mirrored in OTHER. I don't know why.

    Ted> You can also do `a' from the Server buffer, add an nnml server, then
    Ted> hit `e' to edit the parameters and add the nnml-directory.

Ok, but it seems that I can't edit an existing server this way.

Thanks 

Uwe 

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, uwe_brauer@mat.ucm.es wrote:

>>>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
> 
>     Ted> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, oub@mat.ucm.es wrote:
>     >> How can I define two independent servers with the nnml backend.
> 
>     Ted> This should work:
> 
>     Ted> (add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods
>     Ted>   '(nnml "POP3-GMX" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/POP3-GMX"))
>     Ted>   '(nnml "OTHER" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/OTHER")))
> 
> Right, ok thanks. The only odd thing is that the groups in POP3-GMX
> get mirrored in OTHER. I don't know why.

They shouldn't.  Try the `a' `e' method to add the servers instead of
gnus-secondary-select-methods.  Unfortunately I don't have this set up
myself, so I can't vouch for the correctness of Gnus with two nnml
servers, but if you run into further problems I'll take a look to make
sure the underlying code is doing the right thing.

>     Ted> You can also do `a' from the Server buffer, add an nnml server, then
>     Ted> hit `e' to edit the parameters and add the nnml-directory.
> 
> Ok, but it seems that I can't edit an existing server this way.

If a server is defined by Lisp code, rather than through the `a'
method I mentioned, you can't edit the parameters through the `e'
command in the Server buffer.

Ted

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

    Ted> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, uwe_brauer@mat.ucm.es wrote:
    >>>>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
    >> 

[snip]

    >> 
    >> Right, ok thanks. The only odd thing is that the groups in POP3-GMX
    >> get mirrored in OTHER. I don't know why.

    Ted> They shouldn't.   Try the `a'  `e' method to  add the servers
    Ted>   instead of gnus-secondary-select-methods.  Unfortunately  I
    Ted> don't   have this set up  myself,  so I can't  vouch  for the
    Ted>  correctness of Gnus  with two nnml  servers,  but if you run
    Ted> into further  problems  I'll take a  look  to  make  sure the
    Ted> underlying code is doing the right thing.

Ok I tried that and the result is the same. However since I made a lot
of experiments I find some entries in the .newsrc.eld file, that
refer to groups which are long gone. So it seems whenever I generate a
new server somehow these groups pop put, I thought of editing the eld
file but I am afraid to screw up things. 

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:


    Ted> They  shouldn't.  Try the  `a' `e' method  to add the servers
    Ted>  instead of  gnus-secondary-select-methods.  Unfortunately  I
    Ted>  don't have this  set up  myself, so I   can't vouch for  the
    Ted> correctness of  Gnus with two   nnml servers, but if  you run
    Ted> into further  problems  I'll take a  look  to make  sure  the
    Ted> underlying code is doing the right thing.

    Ted> You can  also  do `a' from the   Server buffer,  add  an nnml
    Ted> server, then  hit  `e' to  edit  the parameters and  add  the
    Ted> nnml-directory.
    >> 
    >> Ok, but it seems that I can't edit an existing server this way.

Another oddie: I have now also defined  the nnml pop3 server via 
`a' and `e' however every time I reopen gnus, the server is closed, I
have to  open it via `O' etc, this behaviour makes that pop3 nnml
server un usable.

Uwe 

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

    Ted> On Mon, 18 Jul 2005, uwe_brauer@mat.ucm.es wrote:
    >>>>>>> "Ted" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
    >> 

    Ted> They shouldn't.  Try the `a' `e' method to add the servers instead of
    Ted> gnus-secondary-select-methods.  Unfortunately I don't have this set up
    Ted> myself, so I can't vouch for the correctness of Gnus with two nnml
    Ted> servers, but if you run into further problems I'll take a look to make
    Ted> sure the underlying code is doing the right thing.

    Ted> You can also do `a' from the Server buffer, add an nnml server, then
    Ted> hit `e' to edit the parameters and add the nnml-directory.
    >> 
I just deleted all my .newsrc newsrc.eld files and restarted gnus, I
add a nnml server, 
so the corresponding buffer looks like
(nnml "NNML")   

However  independent whether I edit the server in order to obtain something
like this

(nnml "NNML-Archive" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/NNML-Archive"))

When I enter the nnml server he shows me groups which do not exist. So
for some reason gnus reads some old information which resulted from my
experiments. But what.

Another question: it seems that I can use the secondary select method
in order to select a server, but I could also to it in the way
described above, even for nnimap or nntp servers. Which method is
better?

Thanks 

Uwe 

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[David Z Maze]

Uwe Brauer <uwe_brauer@mat.ucm.es> writes:

> I just deleted all my .newsrc newsrc.eld files and restarted gnus, I
> add a nnml server, so the corresponding buffer looks like (nnml
> "NNML")
>
> However independent whether I edit the server in order to obtain
> something like this
>
> (nnml "NNML-Archive" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/NNML-Archive"))

Out of curiousity, why do you want two separate nnml backends?  Within
a single backend, you could create, say, nnml:archive.* and
nnml:current.* groups and achieve segregation that way.

> Another question: it seems that I can use the secondary select
> method in order to select a server, but I could also to it in the
> way described above, even for nnimap or nntp servers. Which method
> is better?

From what I can tell, your mail backend (the thing that sucks in mail
as per mail-sources) must be either gnus-select-method or one of
gnus-secondary-select-methods; the backend that gets the "blessed"
group names without prefixes is gnus-select-method (or you can set
that to nnnil); and otherwise it's fine for all of your other backends
to be in neither list and subscribe to individual foreign groups from
them.  If you have to do some configuration to make the backend work
it might be useful to put into gnus-secondary-select-methods too, but
otherwise subscribing to nntp+my.news.server:gnu.emacs.gnus seems to
work just fine.

(I have two separate Gnus setups.  The one I'm posting from uses nnnil
as gnus-select-method, has nnml in gnus-secondary-select-methods, and
I read a couple of foreign nntp groups.  On the other one
gnus-select-method is nnimap, gnus-secondary-select-methods is nil,
and there are a couple of nnrss groups.)

  --dzm

Re: various independent "mail servers" and the nnml backend

[Uwe Brauer]

>>>>> "David" == David Z Maze <David> writes:

    David> Uwe Brauer <uwe_brauer@mat.ucm.es> writes:
    >> I just deleted all my .newsrc newsrc.eld files and restarted gnus, I
    >> add a nnml server, so the corresponding buffer looks like (nnml
    >> "NNML")
    >> 
    >> However independent whether I edit the server in order to obtain
    >> something like this
    >> 
    >> (nnml "NNML-Archive" (nnml-directory "/home/oub/Mail/NNML-Archive"))

    David>  Out of curiousity, why  do you want two separate nnml
    David> backends?  Within a  single backend, you could create,
    David>  say,  nnml:archive.*  and nnml:current.*   groups and
    David> achieve segregation that way.

Right  in general, but  the problem is  the *respooling*. If I do
respooling in  a group via  `B r' then it asks  for a  server and
then  puts  the   messages  in  the   *mail.misc* group   of _that_
server.  If I want my  mails from the pop3 server  end  up in the
nnml backend, and have just one server, these mails end up also
in *mail.misc*

[snip]


    David> From what I  can tell, your mail   backend (the thing  that
    David>  sucks     in mail as  per    mail-sources)  must be either
    David> gnus-select-method or one of gnus-secondary-select-methods;
    David> the backend that   gets the "blessed" group  names  without
    David>  prefixes is  gnus-select-method  (or you can   set that to
    David> nnnil); and  otherwise  it's  fine for  all of  your  other
    David> backends to be in neither list  and subscribe to individual
    David>  foreign groups   from   them.  If  you   have to  do  some
    David> configuration to make  the backend work  it might be useful
    David>   to  put   into   gnus-secondary-select-methods too,   but
    David> otherwise subscribing to nntp+my.news.server:gnu.emacs.gnus
    David> seems to work just fine.

I am not sure I understand that explanation.
My setting so far has been

    -  My first method, via gnus-select-method is nnnil 

    - then via gnus-secondary-select-methods  I have specified my
      nnimap, and nntp servers 

But it seems also to work via
    -  My first method, via gnus-select-method is nnnil 

    - set the nnimap and nntp server, by entering the server
    buffer
    then use `a' and  `e'.


Uwe