From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/41778 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Russ Allbery Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Mailing lists and news archiving Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 03:45:15 -0800 Organization: The Eyrie Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: References: <87lmfc8qem.fsf@lackawana.kippona.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035177122 7927 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 05:12:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 05:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: Original-Received: (qmail 13415 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 11:45:49 -0000 Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu (mail@129.7.128.13) by mastaler.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 11:45:49 -0000 Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu ([129.7.128.10] ident=lists) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 16OHAo-0000xG-00; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:45:38 -0600 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:45:30 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA15192 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 05:45:20 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: (qmail 13411 invoked by alias); 9 Jan 2002 11:45:23 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 13406 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 11:45:23 -0000 Original-Received: from windlord.stanford.edu (171.64.13.23) by gnus.org with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 11:45:23 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 28514 invoked by uid 50); 9 Jan 2002 11:45:15 -0000 Original-To: ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: (Per Abrahamsen's message of "Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:55:20 +0100") Original-Lines: 35 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090005 (Oort Gnus v0.05) XEmacs/21.4 (Common Lisp, sparc-sun-solaris2.6) Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:41778 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:41778 Per Abrahamsen writes: > Russ Allbery writes: >> Per Abrahamsen writes: >>> If we make the mailing list archives too systematic, they might lose >>> some of the properties that differentiate them from Usenet. Mailing >>> lists tend to appear more exclusive, and less prone to spammers and >>> trolls. Especially if they are bi-directional, like Lars want. >> Hm. I'm not sure whether security via obscurity would help here or not. > The obscurity is the only significant difference between Usenet groups > and mailing lists as far as I can see. I don't think it's the obscurity so much as having to take a positive action to join and participate in the mailing list. I think it serves as a low-grade filter that weeds out people with only a casual or browsing interest in the topic. In some ways this is a bad thing, as there is an audience that the mailing list doesn't reach. Some of those people may get slowly sucked in and eventually become maintainers or significant contributors. In other ways, though, this is a very good thing. You don't get the hit and run vandals on mailing lists like you do on Usenet. (Well, some of that also has to do with the fact that the mailing list has a central point of control and people can be easily banned if it's necessary to do so.) There tends to be more topical focus, and more willingness to self- police in a manner that doesn't just degrade into endless arguments. I'm not sure how the creation of a lot of mail to news gateways would change that dynamic, if it does at all. It feels complicated to me. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu)