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* Gnus wrong message threading
@ 2020-09-19  2:15 Kevin Shell
  2020-09-19 11:23 ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-19  2:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Hello list.

When a message has no In-Reply-To and/or References headers,
Gnus can't find the real parent message,
it links to the wrong parent message.

How Gnus finds the parent message of a reply message when
the reply has no In-Reply-To and/or References headers?

Does Gnus has command/function to link to the real parent message?

--
kevin



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-19  2:15 Gnus wrong message threading Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-19 11:23 ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-09-19 13:56   ` Kevin Shell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-09-19 11:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin writes:

> How Gnus finds the parent message of a reply message when
> the reply has no In-Reply-To and/or References headers?
>
> Does Gnus has command/function to link to the real parent message?

Take a look at the section on "Threading" in the manual:

 · https://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_39.html#Threading

That should give you some ideas of what you can tweak, and the commands
available.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "We'll crucify the insincere tonight"                      Adam Sjøgren
                                                       asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-19 11:23 ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2020-09-19 13:56   ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-19 14:08     ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-09-19 14:14     ` 황병희
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-19 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Kevin writes:
>
>> How Gnus finds the parent message of a reply message when
>> the reply has no In-Reply-To and/or References headers?
>>
>> Does Gnus has command/function to link to the real parent message?
>
> Take a look at the section on "Threading" in the manual:
>
>  · https://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_39.html#Threading
>
> That should give you some ideas of what you can tweak, and the commands
> available.
>
But I discover Gnus could link to wrong parent message. Maybe it's a bug?



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-19 13:56   ` Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-19 14:08     ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-09-20  2:33       ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-19 14:14     ` 황병희
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-09-19 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin writes:

> But I discover Gnus could link to wrong parent message. Maybe it's a bug?

Might be - it's hard to tell from the information you have(n't) shown :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Our hero regains consciousness at the feet of a           Adam Sjøgren
  sarcastic alien..."                                  asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-19 13:56   ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-19 14:08     ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2020-09-19 14:14     ` 황병희
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: 황병희 @ 2020-09-19 14:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Gnus

Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> writes:

> Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:
>
>> Kevin writes:
>>
>>> How Gnus finds the parent message of a reply message when
>>> the reply has no In-Reply-To and/or References headers?
>>>
>>> Does Gnus has command/function to link to the real parent message?
>>
>> Take a look at the section on "Threading" in the manual:
>>
>>  · https://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_39.html#Threading
>>
>> That should give you some ideas of what you can tweak, and the commands
>> available.
>>
> But I discover Gnus could link to wrong parent message. Maybe it's a bug?

If you sure that a bug, just do M-x report-bug ;;;

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _白衣從軍_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-19 14:08     ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2020-09-20  2:33       ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-20  9:51         ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-20  2:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Kevin writes:
>
>> But I discover Gnus could link to wrong parent message. Maybe it's a bug?
>
> Might be - it's hard to tell from the information you have(n't) shown :-)
>

I read the group gmane.network.irc.irssi.user,
the Subject is:
 Improving the WHOIS format

Two reply messages with no In-Reply-To/References headers linked
to the wrong parent message, maybe it's a bug with Gnus.

The two messages' ID are:
Message-ID:
  <CADnJ0kFP9d+hnV=9tLnRsLZ=sBqHuX1kLYDC6bW0hQ+8vGDKOg@mail.gmail.com>

Message-ID:
  <20120116105258.46140@gmx.com>

They are web mailers that don't generate In-Reply-To and References headers.

--
kevin



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-20  2:33       ` Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-20  9:51         ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-09-20 10:33           ` Kevin Shell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-09-20  9:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin writes:

> Two reply messages with no In-Reply-To/References headers linked
> to the wrong parent message, maybe it's a bug with Gnus.

> The two messages' ID are:
> Message-ID:
>   <CADnJ0kFP9d+hnV=9tLnRsLZ=sBqHuX1kLYDC6bW0hQ+8vGDKOg@mail.gmail.com>
>
> Message-ID:
>   <20120116105258.46140@gmx.com>

The thread looks like this:

   . [  58: Dwayne Henderson       ] Improving the WHOIS format
   .     [  39: Jase Thew              ] 
   .         [  48: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [  65: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [  63: Jase Thew              ] 
   .                 [ 176: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                     [ 198: Charles Howard         ] 
   .                         [  98: Dylan Thiedeke         ] 
   .                     [  38: Marc Hartstein         ] 
   .                     [  16: Mark                   ] 
   .                     [  25: Jase Thew              ] 
   .                         [  80: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                             [  20: Jase Thew              ] 
   .                                 [  77: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                             [  45: Marc Hartstein         ] 
   .                                 [  76: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                                     [  48: David Romano           ] 
   .                     [  25: David Romano           ] 
   .     [  78: Charles Howard         ] 
 **.     < 107: Tony                   > 
   .         [  29: David Romano           ] 
   .             [ 143: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                 [ 173: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                 [  73: Tony                   ] 
   .                     [  18: David Romano           ] 
   .     <  67: David Romano           > 
   .         [ 162: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [ 123: David Romano           ] 
   .                 [ 362: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                     [  93: David Romano           ] 
   .                         [ 293: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                             [  59: tabris                 ] 
   .                             [  53: David Romano           ] 
   .                                 [ 170: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                                     [  30: Marc Hartstein         ] 
   .                                         [  60: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                                     [  49: Ross Timson            ] 
 **.     <  50: Marra Hemsedal         > 
   .         [  14: Timo Sirainen          ] 

The two emails you say are threaded wrong I have marked with **.

Where would you have expected them to be linked, when all that connects
them is the Subject, as they have no In-Reply-To/References?

Would you have preferred that they weren't included in the same thread?

If so, you can set gnus-summary-thread-gathering-function to
'gnus-gather-threads-by-references.

If you do that, the summary looks like this:

   . [  58: Dwayne Henderson       ] Improving the WHOIS format
   .     [  39: Jase Thew              ] 
   .         [  48: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [  65: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [  63: Jase Thew              ] 
   .                 [ 176: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                     [ 198: Charles Howard         ] 
   .                         [  98: Dylan Thiedeke         ] 
   .                     [  38: Marc Hartstein         ] 
   .                     [  16: Mark                   ] 
   .                     [  25: Jase Thew              ] 
   .                         [  80: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                             [  20: Jase Thew              ] 
   .                                 [  77: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                             [  45: Marc Hartstein         ] 
   .                                 [  76: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                                     [  48: David Romano           ] 
   .                     [  25: David Romano           ] 
   .     [  78: Charles Howard         ] 
   . [  29: Dwayne Henderson       ] Typo in formats
   .     [  51: tabris                 ] 
   .         [  44: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [  21: David Romano           ] 
   .                 [  87: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   . [ 115: Dwayne Henderson       ] Inconsistency in formats
   . [  34: Jonson Paul            ] Ignore join/leave messages but exclude from active users
   .     [  89: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .     [  53: Picilli                ] 
   .     [  72: Brandon McCaig         ] 
   . [  18: Tim Owen               ] Op notices missing on irssi proxy
 **. [ 107: Tony                   ] Re: Improving the WHOIS format
   .     [  29: David Romano           ] 
   .         [ 143: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [ 173: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .             [  73: Tony                   ] 
   .                 [  18: David Romano           ] 
   . [  67: David Romano           ] Re: Improving the WHOIS format
   .     [ 162: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .         [ 123: David Romano           ] 
   .             [ 362: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                 [  93: David Romano           ] 
   .                     [ 293: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                         [  59: tabris                 ] 
   .                         [  53: David Romano           ] 
   .                             [ 170: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                                 [  30: Marc Hartstein         ] 
   .                                     [  60: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
   .                                 [  49: Ross Timson            ] 
   . [  34: Francesco de Virgilio  ] How to pass bash variables (passwords) to IRSSI config file?
   .     [  76: Ross Timson            ] 
 **. [  50: Marra Hemsedal         ] Re: Improving the WHOIS format
   .     [  14: Timo Sirainen          ] 

Again I have marked the two emails with **.

> They are web mailers that don't generate In-Reply-To and References headers.

Really? I'm quite sure that both Gmail and GMX generate In-Reply-To and
Reference headers when you reply to an email.

If Gmail didn't there would have been an uproar.

You are right that those two emails do not have In-Reply-To and
Reference headers, but emails from Gmail and GMX usually do.

Two other emails from the same group illustrate that usually emails from
Gmail and GMX do indeed include References and In-Reply-To:

  From: Tony <abletony84@gmail.com>
  Newsgroups: gmane.network.irc.irssi.user
  Subject: Re: Improving the WHOIS format
  Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2012 05:05:12 +0100
    ...
  Message-ID: <CADnJ0kFY9X9zCJ+2yzkRJY=BGA9fsTbYL8OCSZnDVRW9698W6A@mail.gmail.com>
  References: <CADnJ0kFP9d+hnV=9tLnRsLZ=sBqHuX1kLYDC6bW0hQ+8vGDKOg@mail.gmail.com>
          <20120114023644.GE17731@paravel.rurs.us>
          <CAOOO88BqJMP1yJvN_D+wLhJHrDiv8M=E9t0wH=DJx7BeFcUb1A@mail.gmail.com>
    ...
  In-Reply-To: <CAOOO88BqJMP1yJvN_D+wLhJHrDiv8M=E9t0wH=DJx7BeFcUb1A@mail.gmail.com>

and:

  From: Franco <franco00@gmx.com>
  Newsgroups: gmane.network.irc.irssi.user
  Subject: Re: right aligning nicks + nickmode
  Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 19:11:06 +0000
    ...
  Message-ID: <20121002191106.GA15394@efikamx>
  References: <20121002143829.GA8581@efikamx>
   <alpine.LRH.2.00.1210021647480.7770@rubin.ifi.uio.no>
   <20121002165344.GA12355@efikamx>
   <alpine.LRH.2.00.1210022029150.7770@rubin.ifi.uio.no>
    ...
  In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.00.1210022029150.7770@rubin.ifi.uio.no>


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Our hero regains consciousness at the feet of a           Adam Sjøgren
  sarcastic alien..."                                  asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-20  9:51         ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2020-09-20 10:33           ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-20 10:58             ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-20 10:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Kevin writes:
>
>> Two reply messages with no In-Reply-To/References headers linked
>> to the wrong parent message, maybe it's a bug with Gnus.
>
>> The two messages' ID are:
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CADnJ0kFP9d+hnV=9tLnRsLZ=sBqHuX1kLYDC6bW0hQ+8vGDKOg@mail.gmail.com>
>>
>> Message-ID:
>>   <20120116105258.46140@gmx.com>
>
> The thread looks like this:
>
>    . [  58: Dwayne Henderson       ] Improving the WHOIS format
>    .     [  39: Jase Thew              ] 
>    .         [  48: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .             [  65: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .             [  63: Jase Thew              ] 
>    .                 [ 176: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                     [ 198: Charles Howard         ] 
>    .                         [  98: Dylan Thiedeke         ] 
>    .                     [  38: Marc Hartstein         ] 
>    .                     [  16: Mark                   ] 
>    .                     [  25: Jase Thew              ] 
>    .                         [  80: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                             [  20: Jase Thew              ] 
>    .                                 [  77: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                             [  45: Marc Hartstein         ] 
>    .                                 [  76: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                                     [  48: David Romano           ] 
>    .                     [  25: David Romano           ] 
>    .     [  78: Charles Howard         ] 
>  **.     < 107: Tony                   > 
>    .         [  29: David Romano           ] 
>    .             [ 143: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                 [ 173: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                 [  73: Tony                   ] 
>    .                     [  18: David Romano           ] 
>    .     <  67: David Romano           > 
>    .         [ 162: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .             [ 123: David Romano           ] 
>    .                 [ 362: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                     [  93: David Romano           ] 
>    .                         [ 293: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                             [  59: tabris                 ] 
>    .                             [  53: David Romano           ] 
>    .                                 [ 170: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                                     [  30: Marc Hartstein         ] 
>    .                                         [  60: Dwayne Henderson       ] 
>    .                                     [  49: Ross Timson            ] 
>  **.     <  50: Marra Hemsedal         > 
>    .         [  14: Timo Sirainen          ] 
>
> The two emails you say are threaded wrong I have marked with **.
>

My Gnus is configured with:

(setq gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z%B%s -- %n\n")
(setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-root "● ")
(setq gnus-sum-thread-tree-single-leaf "`->")

Viewing with this config is straightforward.

> Where would you have expected them to be linked, when all that connects
> them is the Subject, as they have no In-Reply-To/References?
>
How about linked to root message with special marks characters and
add two commands/functions like link-threads break-thread
and let the user joining the two threads together.

> Would you have preferred that they weren't included in the same thread?
>
> If so, you can set gnus-summary-thread-gathering-function to
> 'gnus-gather-threads-by-references.
>
[...]
>> They are web mailers that don't generate In-Reply-To and References headers.
>
> Really? I'm quite sure that both Gmail and GMX generate In-Reply-To and
> Reference headers when you reply to an email.
>
> If Gmail didn't there would have been an uproar.
>
> You are right that those two emails do not have In-Reply-To and
> Reference headers, but emails from Gmail and GMX usually do.

They are mails back in year *2012*.

--
kevin



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-20 10:33           ` Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-20 10:58             ` Adam Sjøgren
  2020-09-20 11:31               ` Kevin Shell
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-09-20 10:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin writes:

>> Where would you have expected them to be linked, when all that connects
>> them is the Subject, as they have no In-Reply-To/References?

> How about linked to root message with special marks characters

They are linked to the root message. Isn't the [] vs <> showing that
they are special?

> and add two commands/functions like link-threads break-thread and let
> the user joining the two threads together.

Aren't those commands there already:

 · https://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_39.html#Thread-Commands

?

>>> They are web mailers that don't generate In-Reply-To and References
>>> headers.

>> Really? I'm quite sure that both Gmail and GMX generate In-Reply-To and
>> Reference headers when you reply to an email.
>>
>> If Gmail didn't there would have been an uproar.
>>
>> You are right that those two emails do not have In-Reply-To and
>> Reference headers, but emails from Gmail and GMX usually do.
>
> They are mails back in year *2012*.

What is your point?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "we have stairs in our house."                             Adam Sjøgren
                                                       asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-20 10:58             ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2020-09-20 11:31               ` Kevin Shell
  2020-09-20 12:17                 ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Kevin Shell @ 2020-09-20 11:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Kevin writes:
>
>>> Where would you have expected them to be linked, when all that connects
>>> them is the Subject, as they have no In-Reply-To/References?
>
>> How about linked to root message with special marks characters
>
> They are linked to the root message. Isn't the [] vs <> showing that
> they are special?
>
I view with trn-style threads with %B mentioned in my previous mail,
no [] and <> characters.

>> and add two commands/functions like link-threads break-thread and let
>> the user joining the two threads together.
>
> Aren't those commands there already:
>
>  · https://www.gnus.org/manual/gnus_39.html#Thread-Commands
>
> ?
>
Found gnus-summary-reparent-thread and gnus-summary-reparent-children
equivalent to link-threads. :-)
But still no break-thread equivalent commands.

>>>> They are web mailers that don't generate In-Reply-To and References
>>>> headers.
>
>>> Really? I'm quite sure that both Gmail and GMX generate In-Reply-To and
>>> Reference headers when you reply to an email.
>>>
>>> If Gmail didn't there would have been an uproar.
>>>
>>> You are right that those two emails do not have In-Reply-To and
>>> Reference headers, but emails from Gmail and GMX usually do.
>>
>> They are mails back in year *2012*.
>
> What is your point?
>
I mean they were old MUAs back in *2012* that don't generate the two headers.


--
kevin



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: Gnus wrong message threading
  2020-09-20 11:31               ` Kevin Shell
@ 2020-09-20 12:17                 ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-09-20 12:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: ding

Kevin writes:

> I view with trn-style threads with %B mentioned in my previous mail,
> no [] and <> characters.

So you want a feature you have explicitly turned off?

> Found gnus-summary-reparent-thread and gnus-summary-reparent-children
> equivalent to link-threads. :-)
> But still no break-thread equivalent commands.

And the bug you found in threading is... what again?

>> What is your point?
>
> I mean they were old MUAs back in *2012* that don't generate the two
> headers.

Uhm, the examples I showed of Gmail and GMX generating In-Reply-To and
References were from 2012 as well.

Those headers are much older than 2012, they are in RFC 822¹ from 1982
and in the previous RFC 733² from 1977; what is the point you're trying
to make?


  Best regards,

    Adam

¹ https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc822
² https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc733

-- 
 "we have stairs in our house."                             Adam Sjøgren
                                                       asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2020-09-20 12:18 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2020-09-19  2:15 Gnus wrong message threading Kevin Shell
2020-09-19 11:23 ` Adam Sjøgren
2020-09-19 13:56   ` Kevin Shell
2020-09-19 14:08     ` Adam Sjøgren
2020-09-20  2:33       ` Kevin Shell
2020-09-20  9:51         ` Adam Sjøgren
2020-09-20 10:33           ` Kevin Shell
2020-09-20 10:58             ` Adam Sjøgren
2020-09-20 11:31               ` Kevin Shell
2020-09-20 12:17                 ` Adam Sjøgren
2020-09-19 14:14     ` 황병희

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