edbrowse-dev - development list for edbrowse
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
* Cli-focused screen reader
@ 2022-09-09 18:25 Patrick Smyth
  2022-09-09 18:36 ` Serge E. Hallyn
  2022-09-09 19:18 ` Tyler Spivey
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Smyth @ 2022-09-09 18:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: edbrowse-dev

Hi all,

Apologies if this is a basic or trivial question, but I wanted to 
ask about setting up screen readers for the command line on Linux. 
I am using Linux Mint (functionally Ubuntu LTS), and while I can 
use Orca to read X11 terminals, it's quite slow and annoying to 
use, and I'd prefer something specific to the terminal. I'm also 
pretty happy with speakup when I drop out of the graphical 
interface, so not looking for anything there.

I've tried a couple command-line specific screen readers, and I've 
had a lot of trouble getting them to work. The two I've tried 
recently are tdsr (https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr) and fenrir 
(https://github.com/chrys87/fenrir). Setting aside Fenrir, since 
the setup is a lot more involved, when I run tdsr I get the 
following error

ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'speechd'

I have speech dispatcher installed with aptitude (apt-get install 
speech-dispatcher). I downloaded the speech dispatcher project 
from GitHub and tried importing the Python API, but it gives me a 
circular import issue. Here's the speech dispatcher repo on 
GitHub, there's a clients folder with a Python library: 
https://github.com/brailcom/speechd

If people have gotten speech dispatcher for Python or the tdsr 
screen reader working, I'd appreciate any guidance. If people are 
more familiar with fenrir, I can try to articulate where I'm stuck 
with that, but it's significantly more involved as a setup 
process. And apologies if edbrowse isn't the place for this kind 
of question, though it seems fairly likely some of us are using 
CLI screen readers in this community.

Thanks, and hope you have a good end of the week!


Best,
Patrick






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Cli-focused screen reader
  2022-09-09 18:25 Cli-focused screen reader Patrick Smyth
@ 2022-09-09 18:36 ` Serge E. Hallyn
  2022-09-09 19:28   ` Adam Thompson
  2022-09-09 19:18 ` Tyler Spivey
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Serge E. Hallyn @ 2022-09-09 18:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Patrick Smyth; +Cc: edbrowse-dev

On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 02:25:09PM -0400, Patrick Smyth wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies if this is a basic or trivial question, but I wanted to ask about
> setting up screen readers for the command line on Linux. I am using Linux
> Mint (functionally Ubuntu LTS), and while I can use Orca to read X11
> terminals, it's quite slow and annoying to use, and I'd prefer something
> specific to the terminal. I'm also pretty happy with speakup when I drop out
> of the graphical interface, so not looking for anything there.
> 
> I've tried a couple command-line specific screen readers, and I've had a lot
> of trouble getting them to work. The two I've tried recently are tdsr
> (https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr) and fenrir
> (https://github.com/chrys87/fenrir). Setting aside Fenrir, since the setup
> is a lot more involved, when I run tdsr I get the following error
> 
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'speechd'
> 
> I have speech dispatcher installed with aptitude (apt-get install
> speech-dispatcher). I downloaded the speech dispatcher project from GitHub
> and tried importing the Python API, but it gives me a circular import issue.
> Here's the speech dispatcher repo on GitHub, there's a clients folder with a
> Python library: https://github.com/brailcom/speechd
> 
> If people have gotten speech dispatcher for Python or the tdsr screen reader
> working, I'd appreciate any guidance. If people are more familiar with
> fenrir, I can try to articulate where I'm stuck with that, but it's
> significantly more involved as a setup process. And apologies if edbrowse
> isn't the place for this kind of question, though it seems fairly likely
> some of us are using CLI screen readers in this community.
> 
> Thanks, and hope you have a good end of the week!
> 
> 
> Best,
> Patrick

I'm sure there's much better things out there and I look forward to seeing
them listed here :)  But if I were to want this right now, I would write a
brief wrapper to wrap around a shell, which writes fd 1 and 2 output to
espeak.  (I've used espeak for several things like this, and love how easily
i can switch the voice and accent and speed and pitch.)  I'd be curious
however, for your use case, what you'd want to do about input.  Do you only
want output to be spoken, or do you want each character spoken, or the input
spoken when you hit return?  Also not sure whether you'd want stdout and
stderr interwoven, or whether that depends on whether the command has exited
or is interactive, etc.

-serge


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Cli-focused screen reader
  2022-09-09 18:25 Cli-focused screen reader Patrick Smyth
  2022-09-09 18:36 ` Serge E. Hallyn
@ 2022-09-09 19:18 ` Tyler Spivey
  2022-09-09 22:22   ` Patrick Smyth
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Tyler Spivey @ 2022-09-09 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Patrick Smyth, edbrowse-dev

Try installing the python3-speechd package.

On 9/9/2022 11:25 AM, Patrick Smyth wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Apologies if this is a basic or trivial question, but I wanted to ask 
> about setting up screen readers for the command line on Linux. I am 
> using Linux Mint (functionally Ubuntu LTS), and while I can use Orca to 
> read X11 terminals, it's quite slow and annoying to use, and I'd prefer 
> something specific to the terminal. I'm also pretty happy with speakup 
> when I drop out of the graphical interface, so not looking for anything 
> there.
> 
> I've tried a couple command-line specific screen readers, and I've had a 
> lot of trouble getting them to work. The two I've tried recently are 
> tdsr (https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr) and fenrir 
> (https://github.com/chrys87/fenrir). Setting aside Fenrir, since the 
> setup is a lot more involved, when I run tdsr I get the following error
> 
> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'speechd'
> 
> I have speech dispatcher installed with aptitude (apt-get install 
> speech-dispatcher). I downloaded the speech dispatcher project from 
> GitHub and tried importing the Python API, but it gives me a circular 
> import issue. Here's the speech dispatcher repo on GitHub, there's a 
> clients folder with a Python library: https://github.com/brailcom/speechd
> 
> If people have gotten speech dispatcher for Python or the tdsr screen 
> reader working, I'd appreciate any guidance. If people are more familiar 
> with fenrir, I can try to articulate where I'm stuck with that, but it's 
> significantly more involved as a setup process. And apologies if 
> edbrowse isn't the place for this kind of question, though it seems 
> fairly likely some of us are using CLI screen readers in this community.
> 
> Thanks, and hope you have a good end of the week!
> 
> 
> Best,
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Cli-focused screen reader
  2022-09-09 18:36 ` Serge E. Hallyn
@ 2022-09-09 19:28   ` Adam Thompson
  2022-09-09 19:38     ` Serge E. Hallyn
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thompson @ 2022-09-09 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Serge E. Hallyn; +Cc: Patrick Smyth, edbrowse-dev

On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 01:36:37PM -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 02:25:09PM -0400, Patrick Smyth wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Apologies if this is a basic or trivial question, but I wanted to ask about
> > setting up screen readers for the command line on Linux. I am using Linux
> > Mint (functionally Ubuntu LTS), and while I can use Orca to read X11
> > terminals, it's quite slow and annoying to use, and I'd prefer something
> > specific to the terminal. I'm also pretty happy with speakup when I drop out
> > of the graphical interface, so not looking for anything there.

...

> > I've tried a couple command-line specific screen readers, and I've had a lot
> > of trouble getting them to work. The two I've tried recently are tdsr
> > (https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr) and fenrir
> > (https://github.com/chrys87/fenrir). Setting aside Fenrir, since the setup
> > is a lot more involved, when I run tdsr I get the following error
> > 
> > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'speechd'

...

> I'm sure there's much better things out there and I look forward to seeing
> them listed here :)  But if I were to want this right now, I would write a
> brief wrapper to wrap around a shell, which writes fd 1 and 2 output to
> espeak.  (I've used espeak for several things like this, and love how easily
> i can switch the voice and accent and speed and pitch.)  I'd be curious
> however, for your use case, what you'd want to do about input.  Do you only
> want output to be spoken, or do you want each character spoken, or the input
> spoken when you hit return?  Also not sure whether you'd want stdout and
> stderr interwoven, or whether that depends on whether the command has exited
> or is interactive, etc.

It sounds like the use-case here is to run within a graphical environment
but with a terminal screenreader. In that case simply outputting the FDs
from a shell (although a nice idea) probably won't do since there'll be no
review functionality etc. Tbh, I usually just use a console for CLI stuff
and a graphical environment for graphical stuff and take the sub-optimal
experience in the cases where I need to have the two interact (I spend most
of my day job in the console so a CLI-optimised experience is preferable).

To the original question though, at least in Debian, I seem to remember
there's a python-speechd (or probably python3-speechd) package one can
install for the speech-dispatcher python API. If not, or if it's not in
Mint, does TDSR have a requirements.txt file? If so I'd try installing with
pip (or pip3 since I remember it being Python3) and let that do the hard
work.

As to whether this list is the right place, I remember there's another list
for general command-line stuff which I'm also subscribed to although I've
lost the subscription response and thus have totally forgotten the address.

Cheers,
Adam.


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Cli-focused screen reader
  2022-09-09 19:28   ` Adam Thompson
@ 2022-09-09 19:38     ` Serge E. Hallyn
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Serge E. Hallyn @ 2022-09-09 19:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Adam Thompson; +Cc: Serge E. Hallyn, Patrick Smyth, edbrowse-dev

On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 08:28:01PM +0100, Adam Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 01:36:37PM -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 09, 2022 at 02:25:09PM -0400, Patrick Smyth wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > Apologies if this is a basic or trivial question, but I wanted to ask about
> > > setting up screen readers for the command line on Linux. I am using Linux
> > > Mint (functionally Ubuntu LTS), and while I can use Orca to read X11
> > > terminals, it's quite slow and annoying to use, and I'd prefer something
> > > specific to the terminal. I'm also pretty happy with speakup when I drop out
> > > of the graphical interface, so not looking for anything there.
> 
> ...
> 
> > > I've tried a couple command-line specific screen readers, and I've had a lot
> > > of trouble getting them to work. The two I've tried recently are tdsr
> > > (https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr) and fenrir
> > > (https://github.com/chrys87/fenrir). Setting aside Fenrir, since the setup
> > > is a lot more involved, when I run tdsr I get the following error
> > > 
> > > ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'speechd'
> 
> ...
> 
> > I'm sure there's much better things out there and I look forward to seeing
> > them listed here :)  But if I were to want this right now, I would write a
> > brief wrapper to wrap around a shell, which writes fd 1 and 2 output to
> > espeak.  (I've used espeak for several things like this, and love how easily
> > i can switch the voice and accent and speed and pitch.)  I'd be curious
> > however, for your use case, what you'd want to do about input.  Do you only
> > want output to be spoken, or do you want each character spoken, or the input
> > spoken when you hit return?  Also not sure whether you'd want stdout and
> > stderr interwoven, or whether that depends on whether the command has exited
> > or is interactive, etc.
> 
> It sounds like the use-case here is to run within a graphical environment
> but with a terminal screenreader. In that case simply outputting the FDs

I wasn't quite sure, since he said

	screen readers for the command line on Linux.

To me that meant that shell in the default terminal should have screenreader
support, but I probably misread as usual  :)

I was reminded of sitting in bright sunlight with laptop with weak screen,
and wanting everything (quietly) spoken as I edited...  (And yeah, my
suggestion would not work there either, that's more of a edbrowse | espeak
scenario)

> from a shell (although a nice idea) probably won't do since there'll be no
> review functionality etc. Tbh, I usually just use a console for CLI stuff

Sorry - what do you mean by "review functionality"?  Choosing (visually
perhaps) what should be spoken?


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Cli-focused screen reader
  2022-09-09 19:18 ` Tyler Spivey
@ 2022-09-09 22:22   ` Patrick Smyth
  2022-09-14 19:31     ` Patrick Smyth
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Smyth @ 2022-09-09 22:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tyler Spivey; +Cc: edbrowse-dev

Hi Tyler,

Seems I already have it installed:

python3-speechd is already the newest version (0.9.1-4)

Could it be some kind of path issue? I'm not sure how to get the 
python3 on my system to recognize the bindings.


Best,
Patrick




Tyler Spivey <tspivey@pcdesk.net> writes:

> Try installing the python3-speechd package.
>
> On 9/9/2022 11:25 AM, Patrick Smyth wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Apologies if this is a basic or trivial question, but I wanted 
>> to ask 
>> about setting up screen readers for the command line on Linux. 
>> I am using Linux Mint (functionally Ubuntu LTS), and while I 
>> can use Orca to 
>> read X11 terminals, it's quite slow and annoying to use, and 
>> I'd prefer something specific to the terminal. I'm also pretty 
>> happy with speakup 
>> when I drop out of the graphical interface, so not looking for 
>> anything there.
>> I've tried a couple command-line specific screen readers, and 
>> I've had a 
>> lot of trouble getting them to work. The two I've tried 
>> recently are tdsr (https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr) and fenrir 
>> (https://github.com/chrys87/fenrir). Setting aside Fenrir, 
>> since the setup is a lot more involved, when I run tdsr I get 
>> the following error
>> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'speechd'
>> I have speech dispatcher installed with aptitude (apt-get 
>> install 
>> speech-dispatcher). I downloaded the speech dispatcher project 
>> from GitHub and tried importing the Python API, but it gives me 
>> a circular 
>> import issue. Here's the speech dispatcher repo on GitHub, 
>> there's a clients folder with a Python library: 
>> https://github.com/brailcom/speechd
>> If people have gotten speech dispatcher for Python or the tdsr 
>> screen 
>> reader working, I'd appreciate any guidance. If people are more 
>> familiar with fenrir, I can try to articulate where I'm stuck 
>> with that, but it's 
>> significantly more involved as a setup process. And apologies 
>> if edbrowse isn't the place for this kind of question, though 
>> it seems 
>> fairly likely some of us are using CLI screen readers in this 
>> community.
>> Thanks, and hope you have a good end of the week!
>> 
>> Best,
>> Patrick
>> 
>> 
>> 


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: Cli-focused screen reader
  2022-09-09 22:22   ` Patrick Smyth
@ 2022-09-14 19:31     ` Patrick Smyth
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Patrick Smyth @ 2022-09-14 19:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tyler Spivey; +Cc: edbrowse-dev

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2774 bytes --]

Hey, thanks all for weighing in on this. I got it working, it turns out pyenv, an environment manager for Python, was shadowing the Python version. tdsr is more or less exactly what I was looking for, which is to read the output of commands and review by line, word, and character.  Thanks for developing it, Tyler. (And it works well with Edbrowse.)

Have a good day, everyone.


Patrick

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, at 6:22 PM, Patrick Smyth wrote:
> Hi Tyler,
> 
> Seems I already have it installed:
> 
> python3-speechd is already the newest version (0.9.1-4)
> 
> Could it be some kind of path issue? I'm not sure how to get the 
> python3 on my system to recognize the bindings.
> 
> 
> Best,
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tyler Spivey <tspivey@pcdesk.net> writes:
> 
> > Try installing the python3-speechd package.
> >
> > On 9/9/2022 11:25 AM, Patrick Smyth wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >> Apologies if this is a basic or trivial question, but I wanted 
> >> to ask 
> >> about setting up screen readers for the command line on Linux. 
> >> I am using Linux Mint (functionally Ubuntu LTS), and while I 
> >> can use Orca to 
> >> read X11 terminals, it's quite slow and annoying to use, and 
> >> I'd prefer something specific to the terminal. I'm also pretty 
> >> happy with speakup 
> >> when I drop out of the graphical interface, so not looking for 
> >> anything there.
> >> I've tried a couple command-line specific screen readers, and 
> >> I've had a 
> >> lot of trouble getting them to work. The two I've tried 
> >> recently are tdsr (https://github.com/tspivey/tdsr) and fenrir 
> >> (https://github.com/chrys87/fenrir). Setting aside Fenrir, 
> >> since the setup is a lot more involved, when I run tdsr I get 
> >> the following error
> >> ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'speechd'
> >> I have speech dispatcher installed with aptitude (apt-get 
> >> install 
> >> speech-dispatcher). I downloaded the speech dispatcher project 
> >> from GitHub and tried importing the Python API, but it gives me 
> >> a circular 
> >> import issue. Here's the speech dispatcher repo on GitHub, 
> >> there's a clients folder with a Python library: 
> >> https://github.com/brailcom/speechd
> >> If people have gotten speech dispatcher for Python or the tdsr 
> >> screen 
> >> reader working, I'd appreciate any guidance. If people are more 
> >> familiar with fenrir, I can try to articulate where I'm stuck 
> >> with that, but it's 
> >> significantly more involved as a setup process. And apologies 
> >> if edbrowse isn't the place for this kind of question, though 
> >> it seems 
> >> fairly likely some of us are using CLI screen readers in this 
> >> community.
> >> Thanks, and hope you have a good end of the week!
> >> 
> >> Best,
> >> Patrick
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> 
> 

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4544 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-09-14 19:32 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-09-09 18:25 Cli-focused screen reader Patrick Smyth
2022-09-09 18:36 ` Serge E. Hallyn
2022-09-09 19:28   ` Adam Thompson
2022-09-09 19:38     ` Serge E. Hallyn
2022-09-09 19:18 ` Tyler Spivey
2022-09-09 22:22   ` Patrick Smyth
2022-09-14 19:31     ` Patrick Smyth

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).