[Edbrowse-dev] jQuery

[Edbrowse-dev] jQuery

[Karl Dahlke]

> Hello - I am Kevin - I appreciate being able to lurk on the list

Please continue to read and post, it is quite helpful,
and perhaps you will join the development team if you find time.

You may want to get and use 3.5.1,
even though that is not an official version release yet.
A lot of changes there; the required change of supporting mozjs 24, but also
new features.
One is attachEvent(), which you aluded to in your post.
This is plain js, not jquery, but jquery may well use this feature
to atttach events to actions.
So pages that would attach a javascript function to a click or a load
will now do something whereas they did nothing before.

parentNode is also new;
I try to connect each node to its parent when created.
This is relevat to your description of the document tree,
and yes web js uses and expects and even modifies this tree all over the place;
we have to support it!
If I am doing the parentnode properly, it would not be too hard
to add in the reverse logic to build the child node links.
Then write the functions to add new nodes
into the tree dynamically.
This is all moving forward, I think,
in the right direction, but slowly,
as it's just a couple of volunteers with some spare time.
Let me know if you can get, build, and use the latest,
and if you have further thoughts on design and development.

Karl Dahlke

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] jQuery

[Kevin Carhart]

> You may want to get and use 3.5.1,

Thanks Karl! Ok, I will compile 3.5.1 and report back.  attachEvent and 
parentNode sound like the kind of thing a lot of pages will be looking 
for, so that's exciting.

> and perhaps you will join the development team if you find time.

Thank you - yes, I assume there are some tasks that are comprehension 
heavy, and others that are more rote.  I remember you talking about the 
error legs that needed to get done.  So I would like to do something, if 
possible.

Kevin

[Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Kevin Carhart]

Hi all

Wow, compiling the mozjs-24 has way more to it than in the past.  I'm 
finally trying to do this.  Lots of weird errors so far.  Has anyone 
had difficulties with the python requirements?  What do they need all of 
this python for?  Oh well.. I guess I was spoiled by using old versions 
for a long time.

If I want to try out things like parentNodes and 
attachEvent(), is 3.5.1 the earliest version where these are found?  In 
other words, I have to go to mozjs-24 to get these js features?  Or could 
I decouple these two things, give edbrowse a slightly older js but still 
be able to use the latest edbrowse?

I'm on a 32-bit CentOS.  I haven't been able to find mozjs-24 in package 
form, either from yum or hunting around the rpm search engines so I have 
to compile.  I don't really know how out of date I am.  Is 32-bit still OK 
or is it very ill-advised?  ... if you happen to know.

thank you!
Kevin




On Wed, 7 May 2014, Karl Dahlke wrote:

>> Hello - I am Kevin - I appreciate being able to lurk on the list
>
> Please continue to read and post, it is quite helpful,
> and perhaps you will join the development team if you find time.
>
> You may want to get and use 3.5.1,
> even though that is not an official version release yet.
> A lot of changes there; the required change of supporting mozjs 24, but also
> new features.
> One is attachEvent(), which you aluded to in your post.
> This is plain js, not jquery, but jquery may well use this feature
> to atttach events to actions.
> So pages that would attach a javascript function to a click or a load
> will now do something whereas they did nothing before.
>
> parentNode is also new;
> I try to connect each node to its parent when created.
> This is relevat to your description of the document tree,
> and yes web js uses and expects and even modifies this tree all over the place;
> we have to support it!
> If I am doing the parentnode properly, it would not be too hard
> to add in the reverse logic to build the child node links.
> Then write the functions to add new nodes
> into the tree dynamically.
> This is all moving forward, I think,
> in the right direction, but slowly,
> as it's just a couple of volunteers with some spare time.
> Let me know if you can get, build, and use the latest,
> and if you have further thoughts on design and development.
>
> Karl Dahlke
> _______________________________________________
> Edbrowse-dev mailing list
> Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
> http://lists.the-brannons.com/mailman/listinfo/edbrowse-dev
>

--------
Kevin Carhart * 415 225 5306 * The Ten Ninety Nihilists

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Charles Hallenbeck]

Kevin,

My archlinux distro provides a js24 package that works with edbrowse
3.5.1, as does Fedora and a growing list of other distros. Debian's
release does not yet work with edbrowse however. The team here mostly
worked with the mozjs24 from Mozilla until the supported packages came
along. I don't recall having difficulties compiling the Mozilla release,
but the others can be more helpful, I'm sjre.

Chuck

On Sat, 21 Jun 2014, Kevin Carhart wrote:

>
> Hi all
>
> Wow, compiling the mozjs-24 has way more to it than in the past.  I'm finally
> trying to do this.  Lots of weird errors so far.  Has anyone had difficulties
> with the python requirements?  What do they need all of this python for?  Oh
> well.. I guess I was spoiled by using old versions for a long time.
>
> If I want to try out things like parentNodes and attachEvent(), is 3.5.1 the
> earliest version where these are found?  In other words, I have to go to
> mozjs-24 to get these js features?  Or could I decouple these two things, give
> edbrowse a slightly older js but still be able to use the latest edbrowse?
>
> I'm on a 32-bit CentOS.  I haven't been able to find mozjs-24 in package form,
> either from yum or hunting around the rpm search engines so I have to compile.
> I don't really know how out of date I am.  Is 32-bit still OK or is it very
> ill-advised?  ... if you happen to know.
>
> thank you!
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 7 May 2014, Karl Dahlke wrote:
>
> > > Hello - I am Kevin - I appreciate being able to lurk on the list
> >
> > Please continue to read and post, it is quite helpful,
> > and perhaps you will join the development team if you find time.
> >
> > You may want to get and use 3.5.1,
> > even though that is not an official version release yet.
> > A lot of changes there; the required change of supporting mozjs 24, but also
> > new features.
> > One is attachEvent(), which you aluded to in your post.
> > This is plain js, not jquery, but jquery may well use this feature
> > to atttach events to actions.
> > So pages that would attach a javascript function to a click or a load
> > will now do something whereas they did nothing before.
> >
> > parentNode is also new;
> > I try to connect each node to its parent when created.
> > This is relevat to your description of the document tree,
> > and yes web js uses and expects and even modifies this tree all over the
> > place;
> > we have to support it!
> > If I am doing the parentnode properly, it would not be too hard
> > to add in the reverse logic to build the child node links.
> > Then write the functions to add new nodes
> > into the tree dynamically.
> > This is all moving forward, I think,
> > in the right direction, but slowly,
> > as it's just a couple of volunteers with some spare time.
> > Let me know if you can get, build, and use the latest,
> > and if you have further thoughts on design and development.
> >
> > Karl Dahlke
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edbrowse-dev mailing list
> > Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
> > http://lists.the-brannons.com/mailman/listinfo/edbrowse-dev
> >
>
> --------
> Kevin Carhart * 415 225 5306 * The Ten Ninety Nihilists
> _______________________________________________
> Edbrowse-dev mailing list
> Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
> http://lists.the-brannons.com/mailman/listinfo/edbrowse-dev
>

-- 

 Chuck in Ghent, northeast of Hudson on the Hudson.

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Kevin Carhart]

Hi Chuck,

Thank you for the notes on this, and the shell script!

Kevin


On Sat, 21 Jun 2014, Charles Hallenbeck wrote:

> Kevin,
>
> My archlinux distro provides a js24 package that works with edbrowse
> 3.5.1, as does Fedora and a growing list of other distros. Debian's
> release does not yet work with edbrowse however. The team here mostly
> worked with the mozjs24 from Mozilla until the supported packages came
> along. I don't recall having difficulties compiling the Mozilla release,
> but the others can be more helpful, I'm sjre.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2014, Kevin Carhart wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Wow, compiling the mozjs-24 has way more to it than in the past.  I'm finally
>> trying to do this.  Lots of weird errors so far.  Has anyone had difficulties
>> with the python requirements?  What do they need all of this python for?  Oh
>> well.. I guess I was spoiled by using old versions for a long time.
>>
>> If I want to try out things like parentNodes and attachEvent(), is 3.5.1 the
>> earliest version where these are found?  In other words, I have to go to
>> mozjs-24 to get these js features?  Or could I decouple these two things, give
>> edbrowse a slightly older js but still be able to use the latest edbrowse?
>>
>> I'm on a 32-bit CentOS.  I haven't been able to find mozjs-24 in package form,
>> either from yum or hunting around the rpm search engines so I have to compile.
>> I don't really know how out of date I am.  Is 32-bit still OK or is it very
>> ill-advised?  ... if you happen to know.
>>
>> thank you!
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 7 May 2014, Karl Dahlke wrote:
>>
>>>> Hello - I am Kevin - I appreciate being able to lurk on the list
>>>
>>> Please continue to read and post, it is quite helpful,
>>> and perhaps you will join the development team if you find time.
>>>
>>> You may want to get and use 3.5.1,
>>> even though that is not an official version release yet.
>>> A lot of changes there; the required change of supporting mozjs 24, but also
>>> new features.
>>> One is attachEvent(), which you aluded to in your post.
>>> This is plain js, not jquery, but jquery may well use this feature
>>> to atttach events to actions.
>>> So pages that would attach a javascript function to a click or a load
>>> will now do something whereas they did nothing before.
>>>
>>> parentNode is also new;
>>> I try to connect each node to its parent when created.
>>> This is relevat to your description of the document tree,
>>> and yes web js uses and expects and even modifies this tree all over the
>>> place;
>>> we have to support it!
>>> If I am doing the parentnode properly, it would not be too hard
>>> to add in the reverse logic to build the child node links.
>>> Then write the functions to add new nodes
>>> into the tree dynamically.
>>> This is all moving forward, I think,
>>> in the right direction, but slowly,
>>> as it's just a couple of volunteers with some spare time.
>>> Let me know if you can get, build, and use the latest,
>>> and if you have further thoughts on design and development.
>>>
>>> Karl Dahlke
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Edbrowse-dev mailing list
>>> Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
>>> http://lists.the-brannons.com/mailman/listinfo/edbrowse-dev
>>>
>>
>> --------
>> Kevin Carhart * 415 225 5306 * The Ten Ninety Nihilists
>> _______________________________________________
>> Edbrowse-dev mailing list
>> Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
>> http://lists.the-brannons.com/mailman/listinfo/edbrowse-dev
>>
>
> -- 
>
> Chuck in Ghent, northeast of Hudson on the Hudson.
>

--------
Kevin Carhart * 415 225 5306 * The Ten Ninety Nihilists

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Chris Brannon]

Kevin Carhart <kevin@carhart.net> writes:

> so I have to compile.  I don't really know how out of date I am.  Is
> 32-bit still OK or is it very ill-advised?  ... if you happen to know.

Yes, 32-bit is fine.  Plenty of folks are still using it.

-- Chris

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Adam Thompson]

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On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 02:43:31AM -0700, Kevin Carhart wrote:
> Wow, compiling the mozjs-24 has way more to it than in the past.  I'm
> finally trying to do this.  Lots of weird errors so far.  Has anyone had
> difficulties with the python requirements?  What do they need all of this
> python for?  Oh well.. I guess I was spoiled by using old versions for a
> long time.

I've not had difficulties with the python stuff but then I've only compiled on
Debian unstable, so with access to very new Python.
I've got no idea what they need the Python for, configuration etc I guess.
It's a very strange build process though.

> If I want to try out things like parentNodes and attachEvent(), is 3.5.1 the
> earliest version where these are found?  In other words, I have to go to
> mozjs-24 to get these js features?  Or could I decouple these two things,
> give edbrowse a slightly older js but still be able to use the latest
> edbrowse?

Not unless you fancy undoing almost all the new js work I think.
If you do this you may be able to salvage some of the work,
but there've been some important implementation changes to work better with the
gc and the design of the js 24 api.

> I'm on a 32-bit CentOS.  I haven't been able to find mozjs-24 in package
> form, either from yum or hunting around the rpm search engines so I have to
> compile.  I don't really know how out of date I am.  Is 32-bit still OK or
> is it very ill-advised?  ... if you happen to know.

As Chris says, 32 bit is still absolutely fine.
How old is your CentOS installation?
As far as I know CentOS tends to have very old (but supposedly stable)
software, with the intent being that it's ran on servers where stability is
more important than having the latest versions of everything.
This *may* explain some of the Python issues,
though without the error messages it's difficult to say for sure.

Cheers,
Adam.

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Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Kevin Carhart]

Hi Adam,

Thanks for the notes on Chuck's example and on compiling.

I did what I should have done in the first place and compiled on 64-bit 
Debian.  Thanks to the weird nature of inexpensive cloud hosting, it's 
nice to be able to instantiate a new OS variety and try it out.  Maybe 
it's time to switch altogether.  I've been hacking merrily on edbrowse 
3.3.1, for years.

It took a while but I got edbrowse to compile!  One note that might be 
worth sharing is that readline couldn't find ncurses.  I found a 
messageboard thread about this and added -lncurses to the makefile.

So I'm finally on 3.5.1.!  The new moz and everything.   Thank you for the 
help and remarks about this and the ajax question.

Kevin




On Sun, 22 Jun 2014, Adam Thompson wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 02:43:31AM -0700, Kevin Carhart wrote:
>> Wow, compiling the mozjs-24 has way more to it than in the past.  I'm
>> finally trying to do this.  Lots of weird errors so far.  Has anyone had
>> difficulties with the python requirements?  What do they need all of this
>> python for?  Oh well.. I guess I was spoiled by using old versions for a
>> long time.
>
> I've not had difficulties with the python stuff but then I've only compiled on
> Debian unstable, so with access to very new Python.
> I've got no idea what they need the Python for, configuration etc I guess.
> It's a very strange build process though.
>
>> If I want to try out things like parentNodes and attachEvent(), is 3.5.1 the
>> earliest version where these are found?  In other words, I have to go to
>> mozjs-24 to get these js features?  Or could I decouple these two things,
>> give edbrowse a slightly older js but still be able to use the latest
>> edbrowse?
>
> Not unless you fancy undoing almost all the new js work I think.
> If you do this you may be able to salvage some of the work,
> but there've been some important implementation changes to work better with the
> gc and the design of the js 24 api.
>
>> I'm on a 32-bit CentOS.  I haven't been able to find mozjs-24 in package
>> form, either from yum or hunting around the rpm search engines so I have to
>> compile.  I don't really know how out of date I am.  Is 32-bit still OK or
>> is it very ill-advised?  ... if you happen to know.
>
> As Chris says, 32 bit is still absolutely fine.
> How old is your CentOS installation?
> As far as I know CentOS tends to have very old (but supposedly stable)
> software, with the intent being that it's ran on servers where stability is
> more important than having the latest versions of everything.
> This *may* explain some of the Python issues,
> though without the error messages it's difficult to say for sure.
>
> Cheers,
> Adam.
>

--------
Kevin Carhart * 415 225 5306 * The Ten Ninety Nihilists

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Adam Thompson]

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Hi Kevin,

On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 04:39:07PM -0700, Kevin Carhart wrote:
> Thanks for the notes on Chuck's example and on compiling.

That's ok, always happy to help.

> I did what I should have done in the first place and compiled on 64-bit
> Debian.  Thanks to the weird nature of inexpensive cloud hosting, it's nice
> to be able to instantiate a new OS variety and try it out.  Maybe it's time
> to switch altogether.  I've been hacking merrily on edbrowse 3.3.1, for
> years.

Wow, that's quite an old version now.
Out of interest, what version of CentOS were you trying to use,
and is there any way to get edbrowse to compile there or is it simply not
possible without massive amounts of compilation (e.g. new Python etc)?

> It took a while but I got edbrowse to compile!  One note that might be worth
> sharing is that readline couldn't find ncurses.  I found a messageboard
> thread about this and added -lncurses to the makefile.

Ah, ok. I've not had this problem on Debian sid (both 32 and 64 bit).
Which version of Debian are you using?

> So I'm finally on 3.5.1.!  The new moz and everything.   Thank you for the
> help and remarks about this and the ajax question.

How're you finding it so far?

Cheers,
Adam.

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Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Kevin Carhart]

Hi Adam,

> Wow, that's quite an old version now.
> Out of interest, what version of CentOS were you trying to use,
> and is there any way to get edbrowse to compile there or is it simply not
> possible without massive amounts of compilation (e.g. new Python etc)?

Ok, there are actually 3 boxes altogether.  The first is carhart.net, 
which my brother runs and I have an account.  That's where I have tinkered 
with 3.3.1. and learned a ton.  But I moved away from it because I don't 
have root access, can't install packages and have to give alternate paths 
for everything.  The information for carhart.net is:

[kevin@carhart ~]$ cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS release 5.10 (Final)
[kevin@carhart ~]$ rpm -q centos-release
centos-release-5-10.el5.centos
[kevin@carhart ~]$ uname -rmi
2.6.18-371.9.1.el5.centos.plus i686 i386

Then I wanted to learn more linux and be able to stretch out, and have 
someplace to run long HTTP-scripting jobs that are my weird career.  So I 
went to vpslink.com and have had a 32-bit CentOS for the past five 
years.  It may be considered really old!  I don't know what's going on 
with the installation but would be happy to go into more detail or try 
some commands and report on the output if it tells us something that can 
generalize to others.  Here is the information about the system:

[root@crispi-gosh ~]# cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS release 5.4 (Final)
[root@crispi-gosh ~]# rpm -q centos-release
centos-release-5-4.el5.centos.1
[root@crispi-gosh ~]# uname -rmi
2.6.18-128.7.1.el5xen i686 i386
[root@crispi-gosh ~]#

Box #3 - The Debian:

The Debian where I got 3.5.1 to compile is just a couple of days old and 
is fresh out of linode.com.  It's very generic, I barely made any 
decisions.  Here's what it tells me about this one:

My Debian 7.5 Profile (Latest 64 bit (3.14.5-x86_64-linode42))
3.14.5-x86_64-linode42 x86_64 unknown

> How am I finding 3.5.1 so far?

It's a pleasure, as usual.  I am excited to play along and learn what the 
new parentNode and event code is doing and ask some questions.    Thanks 
to the developers for all of this work!

Kevin



--------
Kevin Carhart * 415 225 5306 * The Ten Ninety Nihilists

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Adam Thompson]

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Hi Kevin,

On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 06:48:48PM -0700, Kevin Carhart wrote:
> The information for carhart.net is:
> 
> [kevin@carhart ~]$ cat /etc/redhat-release
> CentOS release 5.10 (Final)
> [kevin@carhart ~]$ rpm -q centos-release
> centos-release-5-10.el5.centos
> [kevin@carhart ~]$ uname -rmi
> 2.6.18-371.9.1.el5.centos.plus i686 i386

Ah ok,  so it's a fairly up to date (2013) version of a fairly old (2007) branch of centos.  This probably means that your Python, though up to date in terms of security is quite old.  What does:
python --version
produce as output?

> Then I wanted to learn more linux and be able to stretch out, and have
> someplace to run long HTTP-scripting jobs that are my weird career.  So I
> went to vpslink.com and have had a 32-bit CentOS for the past five years.
> [root@crispi-gosh ~]# cat /etc/redhat-release
> CentOS release 5.4 (Final)
> [root@crispi-gosh ~]# rpm -q centos-release
> centos-release-5-4.el5.centos.1
> [root@crispi-gosh ~]# uname -rmi
> 2.6.18-128.7.1.el5xen i686 i386

Ok, this is the same branch of centos (major version 5), thus with the exception of security patches (this is 6 minor versions *behind* carhart.net), the base package versions (i.e. kernel 2.6.18 python 2.<whatever>) are probably the same.  Again, what does:
python --version
output?

> My Debian 7.5 Profile (Latest 64 bit (3.14.5-x86_64-linode42))
> 3.14.5-x86_64-linode42 x86_64 unknown

Ok, what do:
uname -a
cat /etc/debian_version
python --version
produce as output?

Note that the only reason I'm primarily focusing on the python is it sounds
from what your saying that that's what's breaking in terms of the mozilla build process.
Do you have any sample outputs of the breakages?
Also, your version of debian is interesting since the profile name indicates a
kernel which is newer than that shipped by default with Debian 7.5.
This is by no means an issue since Debian provide (and I run on one of my
debian stable boxes) newer kernels via Debian backports.
In addition, it's possible that for some reason linode require a certain kernel version.

> >How am I finding 3.5.1 so far?
> 
> It's a pleasure, as usual.  I am excited to play along and learn what the
> new parentNode and event code is doing and ask some questions.    Thanks to
> the developers for all of this work!

Glad to hear you're enjoying it.

Cheers,
Adam.
PS: I wonder if, once we get through the interesting mozjs issues we're going to run into any other incompatibilities with libraries.  I'd be interested to find out so we can update the docs accordingly.

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Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Kevin Carhart]

Hi Adam

carhart.net python: 2.6.8
crispi-gosh.org python: 2.4.3
baby-debian's python: 2.7.3

Ok, I was going to write you a verbose thing but let me put it on hold 
because I must have a yum problem or not have the right repos.  When I go 
to crispi-gosh and run 'yum update python', it doesn't find anything newer 
than 2.4.3 to update to.  Yet carhart and crispi are very similar 
CentOSes, and my brother has got 2.6.8, so why can't I have it too..  I 
must have screwed up my repos.d, which is not a problem that other 
edbrowse installors are likely to face assuming they don't go and 
break things for fun, so let me go deal with yum, try again and 
maybe I will get substantially further once I have the latest 
python.

thanks
Kevin

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] about compiling 3.5.1

[Kevin Carhart]

Hi Adam and list,

All right, I actually got 3.5.1 to compile on my 32-bit centos after all!
Thank you for the nudge or I may have given up.

I took some notes as I was doing it which may help others.

I had some repo issues but I found they were a moot point because mozjs 
requires at least python 2.7, and the packages only go to 2.6.  I had a 
dependencies conflict but it turned out to be moot.

Then, I was lucky and found a stack overflow thread and shell script that 
someone wrote to download and install python 2.7 on centos 5.

Here it is:
https://gist.github.com/timss/5122008

The shell script worked great.  Thank you timss.  The shell script took 
care of installing the upgraded Python to an alternate path using 'make 
altinstall' so that it wouldn't interfere with system Python which a lot 
of already installed programs rely on.

So FYI, when I do a 'python -V' on this 32-bit Centos, it still tells me
Python 2.4.3 
But if I ask for
/usr/local/bin/python2.7 -V
It tells me
Python 2.7.3

And just installing was enough for the configure script.  Configure picked 
up Python 2.7.3 and I didn't need to export it or anything.


Then I still had issues with the mozjs configure script wanting gcc 4.4.
I installed gcc 4.4 and g++ 4.4 with yum and then needed to export:
export CC="/usr/bin/gcc44"
export CXX="/usr/bin/g++44"

At this point, configure worked.
At this point, make succeeded - it took an hour.  Wow!
Ran make install.

Then I ran ldconfig.  I'm not sure if I needed to.

I added -lncurses to the edbrowse makefile

Then I used this line:
make JS_CXXFLAGS=-I/usr/local/include/mozjs-24 JSLIB=-lmozjs-24 edbrowse

Edbrowse 3.5.1 compiled!

Then I still needed to upgrade libcurl.  No newer package for CentOS so I 
compiled libcurl and then used a symbolic link to get edbrowse to pick it 
up.

Success!

thanks for the help,
Kevin










On Wed, 25 Jun 2014, Kevin Carhart wrote:

>
> Hi Adam
>
> carhart.net python: 2.6.8
> crispi-gosh.org python: 2.4.3
> baby-debian's python: 2.7.3
>
> Ok, I was going to write you a verbose thing but let me put it on hold 
> because I must have a yum problem or not have the right repos.  When I go to 
> crispi-gosh and run 'yum update python', it doesn't find anything newer than 
> 2.4.3 to update to.  Yet carhart and crispi are very similar CentOSes, and 
> my brother has got 2.6.8, so why can't I have it too..  I must have screwed 
> up my repos.d, which is not a problem that other edbrowse installors are 
> likely to face assuming they don't go and break things for fun, so let me go 
> deal with yum, try again and maybe I will get substantially further once I 
> have the latest python.
>
> thanks
> Kevin
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edbrowse-dev mailing list
> Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
> http://lists.the-brannons.com/mailman/listinfo/edbrowse-dev
>

--------
Kevin Carhart * 415 225 5306 * The Ten Ninety Nihilists

Re: [Edbrowse-dev] jQuery

[Adam Thompson]

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On Wed, May 07, 2014 at 03:52:25PM -0400, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> My first foray into jquery has me shaking my head.
> 
> https://learn.jquery.com
> 
> I downloaded jquery-1.11.1.js,
> and at least it is real code, not minimized.
> But what is the point?

Yeah, I've only recently started looking into this as well and I'm still unsure.

> It reminds me, decades ago, a proff showed me how you could
> use the preprocessor to almost turn C into pascal.
> 
> #define begin {
> #define end }
> etc
> 
> And then he said, "but don't ever do that!"

Yeah... I've never seen that done before and hope I never see it in actual code.

> jquery seems to be a huge library of functions that overlay prototypes and
> all sorts of things to make js more powerful I guess.

I'm not so sure it's about making js more powerful,
from what I've seen so far it just looks like a way to abstract away the
details of web development allowing the use of the latest GUI coding patterns.
To my mind, whereas this certainly makes developing web content easier for all
those java and similar object oriented programmers out there,
it doesn't really increase the power of js.

> If we have a perfect js dom implementation then jquery would run just fine,
> but we don't.
> 
> My first load of the library gives this error.
> 
> jquery-1.11.1.js: 916: TypeError: document is undefined
> 
> Really?
> almost the first thing I do in createJavaContext is make the document object.
> It's there from the start, but somehow something in this library has caused
> it to disappear.
> I haven't had the time or the inclination to track down what has happened.

I've not looked through jquery to see if it does this,
but I seem to remember seeing the below code a bunch of times in js functions on
websites which don't work with edbrowse:
var document = some.set.of.js.calls();

I can't remember what went after the = but I remember wondering why anyone
would want to define the document variable and being somewhat surprised to see
that people actually did this.

I think if we can get child nodes working though that'd certainly help.

Sorry I don't have more time to look into this at the moment.

Cheers,
Adam.

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[Edbrowse-dev] jQuery

[Kevin Carhart]

Hello - I am Kevin - I appreciate being able to lurk on the list for a 
while.  I have been waiting to post til I had something salient to post 
about.  I might finally have something to contribute on this.  I have 
briefly corresponded a bit with Karl and Chris from time to time, as far 
back as 2008.

As the edbrowse docs put it, "many sighted users have taken 
advantage of the unique scripting capabilities of this program, 
which can be found nowhere else," and this is my background with the 
program.  I love it.  edbrowse got me thinking about JS in a different 
way.

As I have used edbrowse on scripting jobs that I do professionally, I have 
set aside mysterious web pages that didn't work in edbrowse.  One is 
yellowpages.com.  Another is alabamaconnect.gov, which I once had to 
script and banged my head on.

I set these sites aside to go and investigate some day and recently I have 
finally put some time into it.  I'm not sure if this is obvious or if you 
have discovered this already, Karl, Chris, Adam, et al, but I think one 
big reason that a page behavior doesn't work in edbrowse that we might be 
able to do something about is event handlers that cannot be picked up by 
handlerPresent and handlerGo.

For some of these handlers, the problem is joined at the hip with jquery. 
We would need to unravel the jquery representation of the handler, and get 
into the plain javascript that the jquery is a wrapper around, in order 
for handlerPresent to find and process that handler.

As you may already know, jquery has a concept called selectors.  They have 
come up with a variety of ways of slicing up and returning a subset of the 
elements from a hierarchical web page.  jquery has feature-itis..it allows 
lazy designer/developers to avoid having to learn the deeper level by just 
calling a toy with a million features.  (But I mostly use interpreted, 
garbage-collected and scripting languages, so I am one to talk... (smile) 
)

So maybe a given web page has a selector that says:
$(select elements whose title contains 'e').onClick ( alert 'something');

I am not yet clear on how this is evaluated and what happens to the 
onClick.  If there are 7 elements that satisfy the selector condition, is 
the onClick doled out to each of the 7?  It must be stored somewhere.. the 
holy grail for me has been how can I tell handlerPresent where to find 
this?   And how can I do it in a generic way that doesn't just 
accomodate the hot library of 2014 but will keep on working when 
something else gets fashionable.

I think getting this to work is wrapped up with getting more DOM into 
edbrowse. 
I have done some hacking on this by bringing in an existing library called 
env.js.

It might potentially be a way to implement a DOM in edbrowse without 
having to implement the spec from scratch.  Or it could introduce a lot of 
trouble of its own and be no good, but on an experimental basis, I have 
played with it to see how far I could get.  If I want to implement 
certain event handlers, I need jquery, and if I need jquery, I need a
DOM.

env.js is intended for use with Rhino, but I have struggled to get it to 
work with Spidermonkey.  I have it partially working.  I think some 
selectors use regular expressions and others make heavy use of the 
standard getElementsByTagName and getElementByID under the hood.  This is 
where I am right now.  It's a bit tricky.  I know you all have implemented 
gEBI and gEBTN by using document.all and document.idMaster -right? - , but 
I have had problems reconciling the window.document that is pumped in 
from jsdom.c, with something that needs to be a Node and have childNodes. 
Because the javascript implementation of document.getElementsByTagName 
that I have been using expects to be passed something with .childNodes 
and be able to traverse a node tree recursively in order to match at 
lower-down levels.

I hope this makes sense- the long and short of it is that if we want to 
implement selectors, we might be able to tell handlerPresent about a lot 
more handlers that are currently concealed, and hopefully this would mean 
a chunk of new pages that would work in edbrowse.

thanks; good to be in contact with you all,
Kevin



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 12:52:25
From: Karl Dahlke <eklhad@comcast.net>
To: Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
Subject: [Edbrowse-dev] jQuery

My first foray into jquery has me shaking my head.

https://learn.jquery.com

I downloaded jquery-1.11.1.js,
and at least it is real code, not minimized.
But what is the point?
It reminds me, decades ago, a proff showed me how you could
use the preprocessor to almost turn C into pascal.

#define begin {
#define end }
etc

And then he said, "but don't ever do that!"

jquery seems to be a huge library of functions that overlay prototypes and
all sorts of things to make js more powerful I guess.
If we have a perfect js dom implementation then jquery would run just fine,
but we don't.

My first load of the library gives this error.

jquery-1.11.1.js: 916: TypeError: document is undefined

Really?
almost the first thing I do in createJavaContext is make the document object.
It's there from the start, but somehow something in this library has caused
it to disappear.
I haven't had the time or the inclination to track down what has happened.

Karl Dahlke
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Edbrowse-dev mailing list
Edbrowse-dev@lists.the-brannons.com
http://lists.the-brannons.com/mailman/listinfo/edbrowse-dev

[Edbrowse-dev] jQuery

[Karl Dahlke]

My first foray into jquery has me shaking my head.

https://learn.jquery.com

I downloaded jquery-1.11.1.js,
and at least it is real code, not minimized.
But what is the point?
It reminds me, decades ago, a proff showed me how you could
use the preprocessor to almost turn C into pascal.

#define begin {
#define end }
etc

And then he said, "but don't ever do that!"

jquery seems to be a huge library of functions that overlay prototypes and
all sorts of things to make js more powerful I guess.
If we have a perfect js dom implementation then jquery would run just fine,
but we don't.

My first load of the library gives this error.

jquery-1.11.1.js: 916: TypeError: document is undefined

Really?
almost the first thing I do in createJavaContext is make the document object.
It's there from the start, but somehow something in this library has caused
it to disappear.
I haven't had the time or the inclination to track down what has happened.

Karl Dahlke