From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Received: by 10.223.160.114 with SMTP id l47mr377631wrl.29.1507974766445; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 02:52:46 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: homotopytypetheory@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.28.191.29 with SMTP id p29ls593105wmf.8.canary-gmail; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 02:52:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.28.138.130 with SMTP id m124mr421186wmd.27.1507974765601; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 02:52:45 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1507974765; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=aoVkC3vGPzf3zC7Nhvck41jvPvfXCi6jhoTr7qmTFP3iaJxR1fBYRcy4MzlIilbmyy xQtc9pthurJoSUCGmn9KLha3l8mrmC1C5xotZ3QsJmIpbT/S+Kcr2xDSfn48hcdC1bUC UsvHxlYKzkGywqtoizdtwiXKyVbcNztC5JMyyhqwmINXRH5RCuRUGCfzOfQV1to2paaB kT9WRNbQ+s7ZbsHDelW05Fun9yWJshfNwbg1FZr8r2AupDYxG7CJM9kj+AveLdHBdseA HCHz3JSF4BucYPai7dATPFjxfz07mLfnN7mTd1j0/qnT2Rz19HzWSNTgRZ4NpNr5vwm5 w/nw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=user-agent:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references :message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:arc-authentication-results; bh=Ju2Ir+as2ruoF/Sh6OeCYgUJ5RCioJ7+AasNskpLTNQ=; b=UaepVTtfQuS1wC9Ytlht7v7NdjxpAyTqyZUCfU4aWCQSVDeTUvHQM0QirftPcIqmxS OCer7aOfWEipESnxlzqUFXCUgIB6cYgLVzykq+Cgu/HFPmJpxExF8RedsEBUrw68OYQt AJCjXwvz7Y7fDbZbgrwE+aAGi3e2wZxbYwcOGnOTaaQmQ/DY9dMeL2lef4kr+DNGgU4l A2/bXJle1wRcu6/pYiXopMKupM0/c0xWLQi0yR23vzyxRXjqYuhqHGlwQak2ZmAEMMEX 3v2qHCviqgxFLZFZEwiVInrI3aljjaP8f2Fjxei+J4EDz9dVjyI602GP9M3YtP+BkNnK Lrlg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of stre...@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de designates 130.83.156.225 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=stre...@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de Return-Path: Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (mailout.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de. [130.83.156.225]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b8si96751wrf.5.2017.10.14.02.52.45 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 14 Oct 2017 02:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of stre...@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de designates 130.83.156.225 as permitted sender) client-ip=130.83.156.225; Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of stre...@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de designates 130.83.156.225 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=stre...@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de Received: from fb04281.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de (fb04281.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.2.21]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/HRZ/PMX) with ESMTP id v9E9nRKH013747; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:49:27 +0200 (envelope-from stre...@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from fb04209.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de (fb04209.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.2.209]) by fb04281.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.2) with ESMTP id v9E9qiRF030925; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:52:44 +0200 Received: by fb04209.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de (Postfix, from userid 11003) id 0E9631A0D1C; Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:52:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 11:52:43 +0200 From: Thomas Streicher To: Andrej Bauer Cc: Homotopy Type Theory , Univalent Mathematics Subject: Re: [HoTT] A small observation on cumulativity and the failure of initiality Message-ID: <20171014095243.GA29903@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <20171013081056.GB18718@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-PMX-TU: seen v1.2 by 5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2017.10.14.94516 X-PMX-RELAY: outgoing Andrej, you are right in the sense that the free model of a certain type theory T is not trivially isomorphic the syntax modulo. The late Voevodsky suggested this to be an important problem and Peter Lumsdaine has worked on it for some time. It feels a bit like a non-mathematical problem in the sense of being more organizational or CS like. But maybe one should think about ways to introduce variables in a systematic way for making categorical combinator based syntax more palatable. There is more hope this way get something than strating from raw syntax and how to tame it semantically. Thomas