Discussion of Homotopy Type Theory and Univalent Foundations
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From: Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine <p.l.lu...@gmail.com>
To: Steve Awodey <awo...@cmu.edu>
Cc: Michael Shulman <shu...@sandiego.edu>,
	Thierry Coquand <Thierry...@cse.gu.se>,
	 homotopy Type Theory <homotopyt...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [HoTT] Semantics of higher inductive types
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 19:08:57 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAAkwb-nogDyVRwnvDXUphBQb0ttL-TuHfSahnrSMhFnuunc7hw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <9F58F820-A54A-46E7-93DC-F814D4BEE0C6@cmu.edu>

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On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Steve Awodey <awo...@cmu.edu> wrote:
>
> you mean the propositional truncation or suspension operations might lead
to cardinals outside of a Grothendieck Universe?

Exactly, yes.  There’s no reason I know of to think they *need* to, but
with the construction of Mike’s and my paper, they do.  And adding stronger
conditions on the cardinal used won’t help.  The problem is that one takes
a fibrant replacement to go from the “pre-suspension” to the suspension
(more precisely: a (TC,F) factorisation, to go from the universal family of
pre-suspensions to the universal family of suspensions); and fibrant
replacement blows up the fibers to be the size of the *base* of the
family.  So the pre-suspension is small, but the suspension — although
essentially small — ends up as large as the universe one’s using.

So here’s a very precise problem which is as far as I know open:

(*) Construct an operation Σ : U –> U, where U is Voevodsky’s universe,
together with appropriate maps N, S : Û –> Û over Σ, and a homotopy m from
N to S over Σ, which together exhibit U as “closed under suspension”.

I asked a related question on mathoverflow a couple of years ago:
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/219588/pullback-stable-model-of-fibrewise-suspension-of-fibrations-in-simplicial-sets
 David White suggested he could see an answer to that question (which would
probably also answer (*) here) based on the comments by Karol Szumiło and
Tyler Lawson, using the adjunction with Top, but I wasn’t quite able to
piece it together.

–p.

>
> > On Jun 1, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Michael Shulman <shu...@sandiego.edu>
wrote:
> >
> > Do we actually know that the Kan simplicial set model has a *universe
> > closed under* even simple HITs?  It's not trivial because this would
> > mean we could (say) propositionally truncate or suspend the generic
> > small Kan fibration and get another *small* Kan fibration, whereas the
> > base of these fibrations is not small, and fibrant replacement doesn't
> > in general preserve smallness of fibrations with large base spaces.
> >
> > (Also, the current L-S paper doesn't quite give a general syntactic
> > scheme, only a general semantic framework with suggestive implications
> > for the corresponding syntax.)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 8:30 AM, Steve Awodey <awo...@cmu.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Jun 1, 2017, at 10:23 AM, Thierry Coquand <Thierry...@cse.gu.se
>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>  If we are only interested in providing one -particular- model of HITs,
> >> the paper
> >> on  cubical type  theory describes a way to  interpret HIT together
with a
> >> univalent
> >> universe which is stable by HIT operations. This gives in particular
the
> >> consistency
> >> and the proof theoretic power of this extension of type theory.
> >>
> >>
> >> but the Kan simplicial set model already does this — right?
> >> don’t get me wrong — I love the cubes, and they have lots of nice
properties
> >> for models of HoTT
> >> — but there was never really a question of the consistency or
coherence of
> >> simple HITs like propositional truncation or suspension.
> >>
> >> the advance in the L-S paper is to give a general scheme for defining
HITs
> >> syntactically
> >> (a definition, if you like, of what a HIT is, rather than a family of
> >> examples),
> >> and then a general description of the semantics of these,
> >> in a range of models of the basic theory.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>  The approach uses an operation of  “flattening an open box”, which
solves
> >> in
> >> this case the issue of interpreting HIT with parameters (such as
> >> propositional
> >> truncation or suspension) without any coherence issue.
> >> Since the syntax used in this paper is so close to the semantics,  we
> >> limited
> >> ourselves  to a syntactical presentation of this interpretation. But
it can
> >> directly
> >> be transformed to a semantical interpretation, as explained in the
following
> >> note
> >> (which also incorporates a nice simplification of the operation of
> >> flattering
> >> an open box noticed by my coauthors). I also try to make more explicit
in
> >> the note
> >> what is the problem solved by the “flattening boxes” method.
> >>
> >> Only the cases of the spheres and propositional truncation are
described,
> >> but one
> >> would expect the method to generalise to other HITs covered e.g. in
the HoTT
> >> book.
> >>
> >> On 25 May 2017, at 20:25, Michael Shulman <shu...@sandiego.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> The following long-awaited paper is now available:
> >>
> >> Semantics of higher inductive types
> >> Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine, Mike Shulman
> >> https://arxiv.org/abs/1705.07088
> >>
> >> From the abstract:
> >>
> >> We introduce the notion of *cell monad with parameters*: a
> >> semantically-defined scheme for specifying homotopically well-behaved
> >> notions of structure. We then show that any suitable model category
> >> has *weakly stable typal initial algebras* for any cell monad with
> >> parameters. When combined with the local universes construction to
> >> obtain strict stability, this specializes to give models of specific
> >> higher inductive types, including spheres, the torus, pushout types,
> >> truncations, the James construction, and general localisations.
> >>
> >> Our results apply in any sufficiently nice Quillen model category,
> >> including any right proper simplicial Cisinski model category (such as
> >> simplicial sets) and any locally presentable locally cartesian closed
> >> category (such as sets) with its trivial model structure. In
> >> particular, any locally presentable locally cartesian closed
> >> (∞,1)-category is presented by some model category to which our
> >> results apply.
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >>
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  reply	other threads:[~2017-06-01 16:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 25+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-05-25 18:25 Michael Shulman
2017-05-26  0:17 ` [HoTT] " Emily Riehl
2017-06-01 14:23 ` Thierry Coquand
2017-06-01 14:43   ` Michael Shulman
2017-06-01 15:30   ` Steve Awodey
2017-06-01 15:38     ` Michael Shulman
2017-06-01 15:56       ` Steve Awodey
2017-06-01 16:08         ` Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine [this message]
2017-06-06  9:19           ` Andrew Swan
2017-06-06 10:03             ` Andrew Swan
2017-06-06 13:35               ` Michael Shulman
2017-06-06 16:22                 ` Andrew Swan
2017-06-06 19:36                   ` Michael Shulman
2017-06-06 20:59                     ` Andrew Swan
2017-06-07  9:40           ` Peter LeFanu Lumsdaine
2017-06-07  9:57             ` Thierry Coquand
     [not found]             ` <ed7ad345-85e4-4536-86d7-a57fbe3313fe@googlegroups.com>
2017-06-07 23:06               ` Michael Shulman
2017-06-08  6:35                 ` Andrew Swan
2018-09-14 11:15               ` Thierry Coquand
2018-09-14 14:16                 ` Andrew Swan
2018-10-01 13:02                   ` Thierry Coquand
2018-11-10 15:52                     ` Anders Mörtberg
2018-11-10 18:21                       ` Gabriel Scherer
2017-06-08  4:57     ` CARLOS MANUEL MANZUETA
2018-11-12 12:30       ` Ali Caglayan

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