From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 12026 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2022 14:47:17 -0000 Received: from mail-yw1-x1138.google.com (2607:f8b0:4864:20::1138) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 23 Apr 2022 14:47:17 -0000 Received: by mail-yw1-x1138.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-2f7cfa34245sf4527747b3.11 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20210112; h=sender:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:x-original-sender:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5flhiMIiHiALeL3fxy2LXA0jxVuFVQ6epeXOhBtrlo0=; b=klgVLFrwn3EheAlA2mEWP8DzxKuhwM9H95w1iPnWebBcNzquGxix2PG1VwfIUeQIcW 1WYUdZaoxi0iH1W4sXwS5t9f8WS8uHinNbq80VhxFCDpXhrCzPfjI8+ArSnfhyVN+vfG neGOU+PpNz1AMYuEQFwj933PKCXo8q9RqxPixa0AcAFGoAOxtOzXe5uvCgckHEzfZwTF Zidil4PDzWzZTibMNp3uIvSl73ZAqg//jIfZ+kOFetVmHrOxH4cw5Qc5XoWCz5bGTTww V7scC8Y3d8i9R+6uyTuzOQH6mQ63UfhGqZvP2XXCGQQwzXSM4k2o29j72RTSnScUkSco ayvw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post :list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5flhiMIiHiALeL3fxy2LXA0jxVuFVQ6epeXOhBtrlo0=; b=OVaN+lAgIZ1e4cFGr5xVtkJOSvUDuhUHqBqRVNIIQT4K6AfkEFxUdpHJCvCB2t0uJy Df9EsR1l9AlA7kc1JF5KscgcSfFRQbG0JesQJ2MGamTq6dyz35cNqYWLjeuMHN1w5ZTT 7hFxFWinlfyrZdll2QEF/L5QHdSki0golvbkLxwvT6HQR9ycN8EDJqjCBeC5cdF0yc0c E1LGjgeD1qnRL+lJG/qWToRU1fLF0j6u/emSTS5Xds4DHBTp4lMtGVZJayQ8EcGGmAW+ Bv89N6plC4r8vEFA8wp9AI61KqaUn1Npyx1zlB92ocDDqVK2Bd8/OVQRbv+2cLSroEHe j13g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=sender:x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to :references:subject:mime-version:x-original-sender:precedence :mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5flhiMIiHiALeL3fxy2LXA0jxVuFVQ6epeXOhBtrlo0=; b=ObvlULfbeSUoEdfwdotKQJNGXKnVaIGSBlYG4c+ogkohOwMbcLaqIfhPvkQb+w2fK3 99V6iN7ApcV5EmXnsQoLGZ2V7UeyVJGSv426a7H+NlHko+eUfal8Wb2RC5OXIOPwBHmP O/Xi1qsV9n5l/9aSoKZTHjAhPS9JZRUbBCRKaUrd+smkE352/FGhonc4dXDsVHuA9cYa lV67yYrjiwFL0qgvZ67aNOs6Sv/g/tkM5nUBpFI1YaGMOfBccnbTx3bM7b1/Dfk5yuPd euzWzHZ/E68vy24B/NzT91xBN+SGJoE3pxUhDI8XpMx8AIcj6CYPuPesreqEnopQOoi7 dO1A== Sender: homotopytypetheory@googlegroups.com X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533NEdldG0aZuGcKhTSEIgVwZTjXGdrXk+cxhtoKfemHU9nt1UCC m3c3euwuoaXRIfRtKosL4R8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyMagj5woYjS/BFruC9epPgz1Wdq0bucjC5IS0Id6ak/rpySqgecNELCVdXyoKnE7fsjYWMGw== X-Received: by 2002:a25:a403:0:b0:644:cd18:31b8 with SMTP id f3-20020a25a403000000b00644cd1831b8mr8675636ybi.280.1650725234342; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 07:47:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: homotopytypetheory@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a81:ff10:0:b0:2ef:7086:3181 with SMTP id k16-20020a81ff10000000b002ef70863181ls6699284ywn.8.gmail; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 07:47:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a81:d16:0:b0:2f4:dd5d:9846 with SMTP id 22-20020a810d16000000b002f4dd5d9846mr9591391ywn.372.1650725233294; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 07:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 2002:a81:704e:0:b0:2f4:d7e6:69d7 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-2f4d7e66f70ms7b3; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 06:03:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a25:cf43:0:b0:646:b79f:fd82 with SMTP id f64-20020a25cf43000000b00646b79ffd82mr3397658ybg.287.1650718981326; Sat, 23 Apr 2022 06:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 06:03:01 -0700 (PDT) From: David To: Homotopy Type Theory Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <876f6e58-211c-4824-e938-4b915e18d859@fromzerotoinfinity.xyz> <6A66F50E-FAF2-4C31-ABA9-835ED4FDE345@gmail.com> <776cef63-67d8-4413-9cf6-c005e548c386n@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [HoTT] M. Shulman, Towards Third-Generation HOTT, April 14, 21, and 28 - HoTTEST Distinguished Lecture Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5320_1692845885.1650718981126" X-Original-Sender: simplicialboy@gmail.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list HomotopyTypeTheory@googlegroups.com; contact HomotopyTypeTheory+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1041266174716 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , ------=_Part_5320_1692845885.1650718981126 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5321_1575967621.1650718981126" ------=_Part_5321_1575967621.1650718981126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I literally cannot find anything wrong or upsetting or offensive in Mike's comments on the github. He got dislike-bombed for talking about a matter of style, and he got an avalanche of criticism for disagreeing with the latest newly-minted dogma of inclusivity. People are in this very thread condemning him for his 'views'. His views of what? Writing style? Grammar? By disagreeing with the (constantly changing, mind) new dogma, he had to endure a struggle session, and still, afterwards, he's being treated as a pariah and having his talks cancelled? Mike is one of the most important people in the field (top 3 for sure). He's demonstrated his bona fides (mathematical and otherwise) time and time again. He's a good guy, and you guys have cast the most outrageous aspersions against him, as if he were some kind of bigot. Come on. Get real. David On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 1:01:12 PM UTC+1 escardo...@gmail.com wrote: > Unfortunately, this is a lose-lose situation. But I find Josh's argument > below much more persuasive than mine above, and I agree with every single > word. Martin > > On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 10:29:41 UTC+1 Josh Chen wrote: > >> I find the situation unfortunate and was also very much looking forward >> to learning more from Mike, >> >> But as someone who followed the events that Andrej has described from the >> start, with sadness I support the decision by the HoTTEST organizers to not >> hold the lectures immediately thereafter under the auspices of a >> Distinguished series. >> >> If nothing else, I feel it would have been premature that soon, and would >> have worked against the goal of welcoming people of all gender >> presentations and identities. I am not myself trans and can thus easily >> afford to "tolerate" the public declaration of positions that lead to worse >> societal outcomes for them. But this is not the case for the significant >> number of trans people in, and adjacent to, the HoTT community, some of >> whom have to actively hide this part of themselves on pain of e.g. family >> violence. We should think about such things when considering using >> hot-button phrases like "political correctness" and "cancel culture". >> >> I certainly look forward to hearing about Mike's (and Thorsten's and >> Ambrus's) ideas in another format or on another occasion. >> >> With respect and kind regards, >> Josh >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Homotopy Type Theory" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to HomotopyTypeTheory+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/HomotopyTypeTheory/bfd91d1f-da88-4cbb-97ed-df868f6e7190n%40googlegroups.com. ------=_Part_5321_1575967621.1650718981126 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I literally cannot find anything wrong or upsetting or offensive in Mike's = comments on the github.  He got dislike-bombed for talking about a mat= ter of style, and he got an avalanche of criticism for disagreeing with the= latest newly-minted dogma of inclusivity.  People are in this very th= read condemning him for his 'views'.  His views of what? Writing style= ? Grammar?  By disagreeing with the (constantly changing, mind) new do= gma, he had to endure a struggle session, and still, afterwards, he's being= treated as a pariah and having his talks cancelled?

Mik= e is one of the most important people in the field (top 3 for sure).  = He's demonstrated his bona fides (mathematical and otherwise) time and time= again.  He's a good guy, and you guys have cast the most outrageous a= spersions against him, as if he were some kind of bigot.

=
Come on.  Get real.  

David&nb= sp;

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 1:01:12 PM UTC+1 escardo...@gm= ail.com wrote:
On Friday, 15 April 2022 at 10:29:41 UTC+1 Josh Chen wrote:=
I find the situa= tion unfortunate and was also very much looking forward to learning more fr= om Mike,

But as someone who followed the events that Andrej has described from the=20 start, with sadness I support the decision by the HoTTEST organizers to=20 not hold the lectures immediately thereafter under the auspices of a=20 Distinguished series.

If nothing else, I feel=20 it would have been premature that soon, and would have worked against=20 the goal of welcoming people of all gender presentations and identities. I am not myself trans and can thus easily afford to "tolerate" t= he=20 public declaration of positions that lead to worse societal outcomes for them. But this is not the case for the significant number of trans=20 people in, and adjacent to, the HoTT community, some of whom have to=20 actively hide this part of themselves on pain of e.g. family violence.=20 We should think about such things when considering using hot-button=20 phrases like "political correctness" and "cancel culture&quo= t;.

I certainly look forward to hearing about Mike= 's (and Thorsten's and Ambrus's) ideas in another format or on = another occasion.

With respect and kind regards,
Josh


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