How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[nsgnkhibdk2cls0f]

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I think the gap is too far now. Linux people have developed all kinds of overlay file systems with very good performance. MX Linux live usb is as fast as when it's installed and all applications work awesomely. The installation of MX Linux is also a blink of eyes. The live usb version of OpenIndiana booted very slow and also very slow when running live. I tried to open Firefox and Thunderbird. Both applications take ages to launch and all of them crashed almost immediately leaving a big core file in jack's home directory. The installation process of OpenIndiana is also awfully slow. The screensaver triggered two or more times before it's finished.

OpenIndiana live usb technology is even losing to FreeBSD. NomadBSD offers a very stable live environment that is comparable to Linux. GhostBSD's installation process is extremely quick. I think it's time for you to have a look at it and make improvements.

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Re: How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[nsgnkhibdk2cls0f]

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One thing I take notice is only GhostBSD switched to hybrid ISO like Linux. Other BSDs and illumos still separating the ISO disc and the usb disk image.

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Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[Toomas Soome]

> On 30. Jul 2024, at 01:52, nsgnkhibdk2cls0f via illumos-discuss <discuss@lists.illumos.org> wrote:
> 
> One thing I take notice is only GhostBSD switched to hybrid ISO like Linux. Other BSDs and illumos still separating the ISO disc and the usb disk image.

the fact that we do provide .usb does not necessarily mean that .iso can not be used as usb image (in some cases). It only means, that in the cases where iso does not work as usb image, there is “native” usb image available too.

rgds,
toomas

Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[nsgnkhibdk2cls0f]

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Thank you for clarification. But the overall experience with OpenIndiana live usb is still very bad. You should have a look at it and do something to improve the performance.

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Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[Volker A. Brandt]

> Thank you for clarification. But the overall experience with OpenIndiana
> live usb is still very bad. You should have a look at it and do something to
> improve the performance.

Well, Linux has 2000 people working on this, and OpenIndiana has 2.
You are welcome to join!  Testing, bug reports, and documentation are
contributions, too!


Regards -- Volker
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volker A. Brandt        Consulting and Support for Solaris-based Systems
Brandt & Brandt Computer GmbH               |   WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/
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Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[nsgnkhibdk2cls0f]

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You will need a highly compressible read-only file system like SquashFS, and an overlay file system like UnionFS, OverlayFS, Aufs,... All of the driver stuffs are in the kernel. The user space utilities are already developed by Linux.

I don't think a normal user like me can help.

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Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[nsgnkhibdk2cls0f]

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FreeBSD supports UnionFS. Does illumos support UnionFS? Does illumos support any overlay file system at all?

Btw, FreeBSD and illumos are having more things in common than Linux. You can learn how NomadBSD is doing things. It has much better performance than OpenIndiana live usb. The most interesting thing is, it supports persistent mode like Linux, too. You can have a fully functional system running completely from the USB.

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Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[Goetz T. Fischer]

On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 18:54:26 -0400, nsgnkhibdk2cls0f via illumos-discuss wrote:
> I only need a recent pure 64 bit Wine

On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 18:58:38 -0400, nsgnkhibdk2cls0f via illumos-discuss wrote:
> I need something equivalent to the mono-complete package on Debian/Ubuntu. I need to run 
> PascalABC.NET IDE, a WinForms.NET application.

sounds like you should simply use windows.

Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[nsgnkhibdk2cls0f]

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Oh no my friend. Linux can do all of this. I'm using Linux as the reference, not Windows. I don't demand you to have the same level support as Linux. Linux has a multi-lib Wine. I want to explore alternative OS. I'm pretty sure the next thing you will tell me is go and use Linux.

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Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[nsgnkhibdk2cls0f]

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Btw, English is not my language. Please pardon me if I used any wrong words. I don't want to tell you to do anything for me. What I want is a discussion about my proposal to make illumos a better OS that could suite more people than it currently is.

p/s: perhaps I should use the word `ask` instead of `demand`? I don't know.

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Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[Peter Tribble]

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On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 12:00 AM nsgnkhibdk2cls0f via illumos-discuss <
discuss@lists.illumos.org> wrote:

> Thank you for clarification. But the overall experience with OpenIndiana
> live usb is still very bad. You should have a look at it and do something
> to improve the performance.
>

Historically, OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana/Solaris, based on the Caiman
installer, have
typically taken about twice as long as Ubuntu (which is probably a fair
comparison
out of the available Linux distros). I did some comparisons back in
OpenSolaris, and
I don't know whether there's been significant change in that ratio.
Certainly the recent
Debian installs I've done have been horribly slow.

While OmniOS and Tribblix are very very much quicker, I'm not entirely sure
how much
of that work translates directly to OpenIndiana - with different targets in
mind we can
optimize in very different directions, and both those distros wrote
something from scratch.

A couple of the things I have in my old notes last time I looked at this (I
haven't
done a regular OpenIndiana install for some years now):

1. As the live environment is absolutely static, certain things could be
precalculated
ahead of time. I think it has to calculate the lists of files to transfer,
which seems
wasteful to do each time.

2. One useful trick I do in Tribblix, again based on the notion that you
know precisely
what the install environment looks like, is to pregenerate the full SMF
respository
(by doing a test boot and saving off the repository.db. it's going to be
the same every
time) so as to avoid waiting for SMF import at first boot, which can save a
bit [especially
in some virtualized environments where manifest import seems to run
abnormally slowly].

But one of the snags is that there isn't a great deal of understanding of
the live
boot and installer internals. Being a good perl programmer many decades ago
gave me Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris, and after spending a few minutes
trying to work out what Caiman was doing I decided it was too complicated
for me so I wrote all the tools for Tribblix from scratch in a fraction of
the time.

-- 
-Peter Tribble
http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/

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Aw: Re: [discuss] How much OpenIndiana is lagging behind Linux in live usb technology?

[Ignacio Soriano Hernandez]

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And the SoftwareManagementCenter python2 .. so not easy to digest as well .. As I wrote in a different posting .. there is something for everyone new joining the illumos/OpenIndiana/Tribblix (well if Peter allows :-)) world with skills and wanting to help :-) Though wireless would be lovely for those of us in a "mobile" world (and yes there are artifacts and I think even some old drivers in OI) :-) Cheers Iggi Peter Tribble <peter.tribble@gmail.com> schrieb am 30. Juli 2024 um 19:08: On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 12:00 AM nsgnkhibdk2cls0f via illumos-discuss < discuss@lists.illumos.org > wrote: Thank you for clarification. But the overall experience with OpenIndiana live usb is still very bad. You should have a look at it and do something to improve the performance. Historically, OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana/Solaris, based on the Caiman installer, have typically taken about twice as long as Ubuntu (which is probably a fair comparison out of the available Linux distros). I did some comparisons back in OpenSolaris, and I don't know whether there's been significant change in that ratio. Certainly the recent Debian installs I've done have been horribly slow. While OmniOS and Tribblix are very very much quicker, I'm not entirely sure how much of that work translates directly to OpenIndiana - with different targets in mind we can optimize in very different directions, and both those distros wrote something from scratch. A couple of the things I have in my old notes last time I looked at this (I haven't done a regular OpenIndiana install for some years now): 1. As the live environment is absolutely static, certain things could be precalculated ahead of time. I think it has to calculate the lists of files to transfer, which seems wasteful to do each time. 2. One useful trick I do in Tribblix, again based on the notion that you know precisely what the install environment looks like, is to pregenerate the full SMF respository (by doing a test boot and saving off the repository.db. it's going to be the same every time) so as to avoid waiting for SMF import at first boot, which can save a bit [especially in some virtualized environments where manifest import seems to run abnormally slowly]. But one of the snags is that there isn't a great deal of understanding of the live boot and installer internals. Being a good perl programmer many decades ago gave me Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris, and after spending a few minutes trying to work out what Caiman was doing I decided it was too complicated for me so I wrote all the tools for Tribblix from scratch in a fraction of the time. -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ illumos / illumos-discuss / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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