[discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[Atiq Rahman]

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Hello,
I’ve been following OI for some time, and I’m concerned about a pattern
that has been slowing growth: new users frequently encounter installation
or boot issues and leave frustrated. I see this repeatedly in the forums,
often without resolution. This is a major barrier not only to adoption but
to community contribution. If we want more contributors, we first need more
users and for that, the first experience must be smooth.

At present, there are several critical blockers:

*1. EFI Installation & Custom Partitioning*:
  There is major confusion around custom partitioning. Most advice
discourages it in favor of using the whole disk which is unrealistic.
Nobody is going to buy a separate external drive for every OS they test. At
present, folks are able to install many distros using the internal disk.
Better EFI support in OI should allow safe custom partitioning without
restrictions.

*2. Missing Core Drivers:*

   - Many common Ethernet/LAN drivers are absent.
   - Common wireless drivers are also missing.
   - Graphics drivers are broken or nonexistent for much of today’s and
   yesterday's hardware.


These are basic requirements for installation and first boot. Without them,
users can’t even get online to troubleshoot or fetch updates.

These issues don’t just frustrate individual users, they shrink our
potential contributor base before it even forms. Every failed installation
attempt is a lost opportunity for feedback, testing, and future development
help.

I am deeply frustrated. At times, it feels like the stagnation in the OI
Leadership (or Association whoever leading it) is slowly killing the
project instead of helping it thrive.

I believe OI can still grow, but it will require prioritizing these
entry-level fixes. Making installation seamless for new users should be
seen as an investment in the project’s long-term health. I’d be happy to
help test or provide feedback on any efforts aimed at improving these.

Best regards,
Atiq

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Re: [discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[Joshua M. Clulow via illumos-discuss]

On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 at 14:48, Atiq Rahman <atiqcx@gmail.com> wrote:
> Many common Ethernet/LAN drivers are absent.
> Common wireless drivers are also missing.
> Graphics drivers are broken or nonexistent for much of today’s and yesterday's hardware.

FWIW, these are all issues for illumos as a whole, rather than
specifically OpenIndiana.  I agree that they are important issues to
tackle!

> I’d be happy to help test or provide feedback on any efforts aimed at improving these.

The thing is, providing feedback or offering to test things is not
really what we need.  We need people willing to actually write the
drivers, and to do work on the graphics subsystems (updating the port
of DRM from Linux, in particular).

You may say "ah, but I am not a kernel developer, I can not do those
things"!  But the kernel is just a big C program, and everybody who is
comfortable working on it now started out from a point where they were
not yet able to do that.

If you want to see progress, pick an issue and work on it.  Other
folks in the community can provide advice and help you if you get
stuck!  Otherwise, things will continue largely as they have.


Cheers.

-- 
Joshua M. Clulow
http://blog.sysmgr.org

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Re: [discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[Ren Kararou via illumos-discuss]

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> You may say "ah, but I am not a kernel developer, I can not do those
> things"!  But the kernel is just a big C program, and everybody who is
> comfortable working on it now started out from a point where they were
> not yet able to do that.
> 
> If you want to see progress, pick an issue and work on it.  Other
> folks in the community can provide advice and help you if you get
> stuck!  Otherwise, things will continue largely as they have.

Tacking on to this, the illumos website has lots of valuable documentation on this exact topic, generally at https://illumos.org/books/ and more specifically for drivers and such at https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface>

Ren
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Re: [discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[Till Wegmüller]

Hi Eric

I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue or the Proxmox one. I am not 
always listening on all Lists, but we are trying to build a Association 
with Stakeholders for that effort like the FreeBSD foundation. If you 
are interested in signing up let me know so I can send you the details. 
I kept things like the Bylaw drafts etc off list but I am happy to send 
them through.

-Till

On 13.08.25 04:06, Eric J Bowman wrote:
> These responses prove OP's point exactly. Want gfx? Refer to the manual 
> on how to write your own driver, despite the problem being NV Optimus 
> cards "fall off the bus" because loader doesn't map above 4GB, making it 
> not a driver issue. Where's the guidance from the community, other than 
> go figure this out for yourself but don't bother us unless you have code 
> to commit, then if you get stuck... maybe this is why so few developers? 
> Maybe a 15-year out-of-date graphics stack is an argument against 
> continuing largely as you have?
> 
> Hard to work on the kernel when none of the distros boot on non-CSM 
> UEFI, or the latest Proxmox, no Ventoy et al compatibility because 
> it's /EFI not /efi... maybe those of you who know what the issues are 
> can write them down and solicit some specific help? Instead of sending 
> everyone who asks on a wild goose chase while you play the victim card 
> of "too few developers here"? Just say up front: No AMD gfx, no Intel 
> HD630+, no NV Optimus, no UEFI-only boxes need apply, instead of 
> whatever compels all y'all to just keep ignoring folks who post to your 
> list, or giving them misleading answers...?
> 
> Or just state outright, that the stakeholders who control access aren't 
> interested in making illumos friendly to new users in 2025, meaning 
> it'll be gone by 2030 if y'all keep this up.
> 
> -Eric
> 
> 
> 
> ---- On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 17:01:38 -0700 *Ren Kararou via illumos-discuss 
> <discuss@lists.illumos.org>* wrote ---
> 
>         You may say "ah, but I am not a kernel developer, I can not do those
>         things"!  But the kernel is just a big C program, and everybody
>         who is
>         comfortable working on it now started out from a point where
>         they were
>         not yet able to do that.
> 
>         If you want to see progress, pick an issue and work on it.  Other
>         folks in the community can provide advice and help you if you get
>         stuck!  Otherwise, things will continue largely as they have.
> 
> 
>     Tacking on to this, the illumos website has lots of valuable
>     documentation on this exact topic, generally at https://illumos.org/
>     books/ <https://illumos.org/books/> and more specifically for
>     drivers and such at https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html
>     <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface>
> 
>     Ren
>     *illumos <https://illumos.topicbox.com/latest>* / illumos-discuss /
>     see discussions <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss> +
>     participants <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/members> +
>     delivery options <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/
>     subscription> Permalink <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/
>     discuss/T55bf4e75b420a66a-Mf843687360ce2211607ee7af>
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [oi-dev] [discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[Atiq Rahman]

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Hi Till,
Thanks for the reply.

> I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue
For me, this has been an issue. At present, the OI installer does not
present an option to install in UEFI system without dedicating a whole disk
to it.

As a workaround, I am choosing *Install_to_ExistingPool* by pressing F5. If
you are following mailing lists you're probably seeing I am reinventing the
wheel: manually taking care of stuff the installer is not doing when that
option is chosen.

New users might not have that much energy to go through all that to add an
OS (or they might call it distro) to their portable device.

Also, for new contributors (on donation or funding side of the foundation),
where is the info related to the budget, for example, how is budget
allocated? How much appox. was spent on what part of the products from
prior funding? These info will help me understand how much I should
contribute or whether the plan will actually improve things we are
interested in and in reasonable time line. Because right now, critical TODO
tasks seem to be significantly delayed, if this is how it continues
prospect doesn't look good.

Sincerely,

Atiq

On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 3:04 AM Till Wegmüller <toasterson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eric
>
> I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue or the Proxmox one. I am not
> always listening on all Lists, but we are trying to build a Association
> with Stakeholders for that effort like the FreeBSD foundation. If you
> are interested in signing up let me know so I can send you the details.
> I kept things like the Bylaw drafts etc off list but I am happy to send
> them through.
>
> -Till
>
> On 13.08.25 04:06, Eric J Bowman wrote:
> > These responses prove OP's point exactly. Want gfx? Refer to the manual
> > on how to write your own driver, despite the problem being NV Optimus
> > cards "fall off the bus" because loader doesn't map above 4GB, making it
> > not a driver issue. Where's the guidance from the community, other than
> > go figure this out for yourself but don't bother us unless you have code
> > to commit, then if you get stuck... maybe this is why so few developers?
> > Maybe a 15-year out-of-date graphics stack is an argument against
> > continuing largely as you have?
> >
> > Hard to work on the kernel when none of the distros boot on non-CSM
> > UEFI, or the latest Proxmox, no Ventoy et al compatibility because
> > it's /EFI not /efi... maybe those of you who know what the issues are
> > can write them down and solicit some specific help? Instead of sending
> > everyone who asks on a wild goose chase while you play the victim card
> > of "too few developers here"? Just say up front: No AMD gfx, no Intel
> > HD630+, no NV Optimus, no UEFI-only boxes need apply, instead of
> > whatever compels all y'all to just keep ignoring folks who post to your
> > list, or giving them misleading answers...?
> >
> > Or just state outright, that the stakeholders who control access aren't
> > interested in making illumos friendly to new users in 2025, meaning
> > it'll be gone by 2030 if y'all keep this up.
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 17:01:38 -0700 *Ren Kararou via illumos-discuss
> > <discuss@lists.illumos.org>* wrote ---
> >
> >         You may say "ah, but I am not a kernel developer, I can not do
> those
> >         things"!  But the kernel is just a big C program, and everybody
> >         who is
> >         comfortable working on it now started out from a point where
> >         they were
> >         not yet able to do that.
> >
> >         If you want to see progress, pick an issue and work on it.  Other
> >         folks in the community can provide advice and help you if you get
> >         stuck!  Otherwise, things will continue largely as they have.
> >
> >
> >     Tacking on to this, the illumos website has lots of valuable
> >     documentation on this exact topic, generally at https://illumos.org/
> >     books/ <https://illumos.org/books/> and more specifically for
> >     drivers and such at https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html
> >     <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface>
> >
> >     Ren
> >     *illumos <https://illumos.topicbox.com/latest>* / illumos-discuss /
> >     see discussions <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss> +
> >     participants <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/members> +
> >     delivery options <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/
> >     subscription> Permalink <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/
> >     discuss/T55bf4e75b420a66a-Mf843687360ce2211607ee7af>
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> oi-dev mailing list
> oi-dev@openindiana.org
> https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev
>

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Re: [oi-dev] [discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[Till Wegmüller]

Hi

Since we have no Association yet we have no Accounting Reports yet. 
Appart from the Server costs which is part a sponsoring from Krystal 
(fromerly Everycity) and part payed by me, Theophile, Nahum and Iggy 
there is nothing to Account for yet. We are planning on making some 
development work payed but that has not started yet. After that you will 
probably see Amount allocated per project but I don't know if that helps 
you much to decide about allocating funds.

Hope that helps with the layout of things at the moment
We do have small donation pages up at 
https://opencollective.com/openindiana where you can help redice the 
amount I pay for server costs and ohave proper book keeping. At the 
moment Two thirds of the 350EUR a month is payed by me and one third by 
Theo. Any contribution helps.

Till

On 16.08.25 04:10, Atiq Rahman wrote:
> Hi Till,
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
>  > I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue
> For me, this has been an issue. At present, the OI installer does not 
> present an option to install in UEFI system without dedicating a whole 
> disk to it.
> 
> As a workaround, I am choosing /Install_to_ExistingPool/ by pressing F5. 
> If you are following mailing lists you're probably seeing I am 
> reinventing the wheel: manually taking care of stuff the installer is 
> not doing when that option is chosen.
> 
> New users might not have that much energy to go through all that to add 
> an OS (or they might call it distro) to their portable device.
> 
> Also, for new contributors (on donation or funding side of the 
> foundation), where is the info related to the budget, for example, how 
> is budget allocated? How much appox. was spent on what part of the 
> products from prior funding? These info will help me understand how much 
> I should contribute or whether the plan will actually improve things we 
> are interested in and in reasonable time line. Because right now, 
> critical TODO tasks seem to be significantly delayed, if this is how it 
> continues prospect doesn't look good.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Atiq
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 3:04 AM Till Wegmüller <toasterson@gmail.com 
> <mailto:toasterson@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi Eric
> 
>     I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue or the Proxmox one. I am not
>     always listening on all Lists, but we are trying to build a Association
>     with Stakeholders for that effort like the FreeBSD foundation. If you
>     are interested in signing up let me know so I can send you the details.
>     I kept things like the Bylaw drafts etc off list but I am happy to send
>     them through.
> 
>     -Till
> 
>     On 13.08.25 04:06, Eric J Bowman wrote:
>      > These responses prove OP's point exactly. Want gfx? Refer to the
>     manual
>      > on how to write your own driver, despite the problem being NV
>     Optimus
>      > cards "fall off the bus" because loader doesn't map above 4GB,
>     making it
>      > not a driver issue. Where's the guidance from the community,
>     other than
>      > go figure this out for yourself but don't bother us unless you
>     have code
>      > to commit, then if you get stuck... maybe this is why so few
>     developers?
>      > Maybe a 15-year out-of-date graphics stack is an argument against
>      > continuing largely as you have?
>      >
>      > Hard to work on the kernel when none of the distros boot on non-CSM
>      > UEFI, or the latest Proxmox, no Ventoy et al compatibility because
>      > it's /EFI not /efi... maybe those of you who know what the issues
>     are
>      > can write them down and solicit some specific help? Instead of
>     sending
>      > everyone who asks on a wild goose chase while you play the victim
>     card
>      > of "too few developers here"? Just say up front: No AMD gfx, no
>     Intel
>      > HD630+, no NV Optimus, no UEFI-only boxes need apply, instead of
>      > whatever compels all y'all to just keep ignoring folks who post
>     to your
>      > list, or giving them misleading answers...?
>      >
>      > Or just state outright, that the stakeholders who control access
>     aren't
>      > interested in making illumos friendly to new users in 2025, meaning
>      > it'll be gone by 2030 if y'all keep this up.
>      >
>      > -Eric
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > ---- On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 17:01:38 -0700 *Ren Kararou via illumos-
>     discuss
>      > <discuss@lists.illumos.org <mailto:discuss@lists.illumos.org>>*
>     wrote ---
>      >
>      >         You may say "ah, but I am not a kernel developer, I can
>     not do those
>      >         things"!  But the kernel is just a big C program, and
>     everybody
>      >         who is
>      >         comfortable working on it now started out from a point where
>      >         they were
>      >         not yet able to do that.
>      >
>      >         If you want to see progress, pick an issue and work on
>     it.  Other
>      >         folks in the community can provide advice and help you if
>     you get
>      >         stuck!  Otherwise, things will continue largely as they have.
>      >
>      >
>      >     Tacking on to this, the illumos website has lots of valuable
>      >     documentation on this exact topic, generally at https://
>     illumos.org/ <https://illumos.org/>
>      >     books/ <https://illumos.org/books/ <https://illumos.org/
>     books/>> and more specifically for
>      >     drivers and such at https://illumos.org/books/wdd/
>     preface.html <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html>
>      >     <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface <https://
>     illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface>>
>      >
>      >     Ren
>      >     *illumos <https://illumos.topicbox.com/latest <https://
>     illumos.topicbox.com/latest>>* / illumos-discuss /
>      >     see discussions <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss
>     <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss>> +
>      >     participants <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/
>     members <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/members>> +
>      >     delivery options <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/
>     discuss/ <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/>
>      >     subscription> Permalink <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/
>     <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/>
>      >     discuss/T55bf4e75b420a66a-Mf843687360ce2211607ee7af>
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     oi-dev mailing list
>     oi-dev@openindiana.org <mailto:oi-dev@openindiana.org>
>     https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev <https://
>     openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev>
> 

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Re: [oi-dev] [discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[theophile.dudreuilh@yahoo.com via illumos-discuss]

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Hello,

I’m really glad to be able to contribute, even if just a little ;-).
From time to time I post on UnitedBSD (as majekla) in the SunOS section, sharing "tips" on deploying to hosted servers, configuring CMSs, compiling certain packages, and so on.
Since January I’ve also had a very demanding job, so it’s not always easy to find the time!

That said, this is a fantastic project, and I’m truly excited to see it grow.

A big thank you to all the developers for your dedicated involvement and all the effort you put into making this possible.

Best wishes to everyone!


    Le samedi 16 août 2025 à 11:21:31 UTC+2, Till Wegmüller <toasterson@gmail.com> a écrit :  
 
 Hi

Since we have no Association yet we have no Accounting Reports yet. 
Appart from the Server costs which is part a sponsoring from Krystal 
(fromerly Everycity) and part payed by me, Theophile, Nahum and Iggy 
there is nothing to Account for yet. We are planning on making some 
development work payed but that has not started yet. After that you will 
probably see Amount allocated per project but I don't know if that helps 
you much to decide about allocating funds.

Hope that helps with the layout of things at the moment
We do have small donation pages up at 
https://opencollective.com/openindiana where you can help redice the 
amount I pay for server costs and ohave proper book keeping. At the 
moment Two thirds of the 350EUR a month is payed by me and one third by 
Theo. Any contribution helps.

Till

On 16.08.25 04:10, Atiq Rahman wrote:
> Hi Till,
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
>  > I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue
> For me, this has been an issue. At present, the OI installer does not 
> present an option to install in UEFI system without dedicating a whole 
> disk to it.
> 
> As a workaround, I am choosing /Install_to_ExistingPool/ by pressing F5. 
> If you are following mailing lists you're probably seeing I am 
> reinventing the wheel: manually taking care of stuff the installer is 
> not doing when that option is chosen.
> 
> New users might not have that much energy to go through all that to add 
> an OS (or they might call it distro) to their portable device.
> 
> Also, for new contributors (on donation or funding side of the 
> foundation), where is the info related to the budget, for example, how 
> is budget allocated? How much appox. was spent on what part of the 
> products from prior funding? These info will help me understand how much 
> I should contribute or whether the plan will actually improve things we 
> are interested in and in reasonable time line. Because right now, 
> critical TODO tasks seem to be significantly delayed, if this is how it 
> continues prospect doesn't look good.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Atiq
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 3:04 AM Till Wegmüller <toasterson@gmail.com 
> <mailto:toasterson@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>    Hi Eric
> 
>    I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue or the Proxmox one. I am not
>    always listening on all Lists, but we are trying to build a Association
>    with Stakeholders for that effort like the FreeBSD foundation. If you
>    are interested in signing up let me know so I can send you the details.
>    I kept things like the Bylaw drafts etc off list but I am happy to send
>    them through.
> 
>    -Till
> 
>    On 13.08.25 04:06, Eric J Bowman wrote:
>      > These responses prove OP's point exactly. Want gfx? Refer to the
>    manual
>      > on how to write your own driver, despite the problem being NV
>    Optimus
>      > cards "fall off the bus" because loader doesn't map above 4GB,
>    making it
>      > not a driver issue. Where's the guidance from the community,
>    other than
>      > go figure this out for yourself but don't bother us unless you
>    have code
>      > to commit, then if you get stuck... maybe this is why so few
>    developers?
>      > Maybe a 15-year out-of-date graphics stack is an argument against
>      > continuing largely as you have?
>      >
>      > Hard to work on the kernel when none of the distros boot on non-CSM
>      > UEFI, or the latest Proxmox, no Ventoy et al compatibility because
>      > it's /EFI not /efi... maybe those of you who know what the issues
>    are
>      > can write them down and solicit some specific help? Instead of
>    sending
>      > everyone who asks on a wild goose chase while you play the victim
>    card
>      > of "too few developers here"? Just say up front: No AMD gfx, no
>    Intel
>      > HD630+, no NV Optimus, no UEFI-only boxes need apply, instead of
>      > whatever compels all y'all to just keep ignoring folks who post
>    to your
>      > list, or giving them misleading answers...?
>      >
>      > Or just state outright, that the stakeholders who control access
>    aren't
>      > interested in making illumos friendly to new users in 2025, meaning
>      > it'll be gone by 2030 if y'all keep this up.
>      >
>      > -Eric
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > ---- On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 17:01:38 -0700 *Ren Kararou via illumos-
>    discuss
>      > <discuss@lists.illumos.org <mailto:discuss@lists.illumos.org>>*
>    wrote ---
>      >
>      >         You may say "ah, but I am not a kernel developer, I can
>    not do those
>      >         things"!  But the kernel is just a big C program, and
>    everybody
>      >         who is
>      >         comfortable working on it now started out from a point where
>      >         they were
>      >         not yet able to do that.
>      >
>      >         If you want to see progress, pick an issue and work on
>    it.  Other
>      >         folks in the community can provide advice and help you if
>    you get
>      >         stuck!  Otherwise, things will continue largely as they have.
>      >
>      >
>      >     Tacking on to this, the illumos website has lots of valuable
>      >     documentation on this exact topic, generally at https://
>    illumos.org/ <https://illumos.org/>
>      >     books/ <https://illumos.org/books/ <https://illumos.org/
>    books/>> and more specifically for
>      >     drivers and such at https://illumos.org/books/wdd/
>    preface.html <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html>
>      >     <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface <https://
>    illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface>>
>      >
>      >     Ren
>      >     *illumos <https://illumos.topicbox.com/latest <https://
>    illumos.topicbox.com/latest>>* / illumos-discuss /
>      >     see discussions <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss
>    <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss>> +
>      >     participants <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/
>    members <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/members>> +
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>    discuss/ <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/>
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>    <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/>
>      >     discuss/T55bf4e75b420a66a-Mf843687360ce2211607ee7af>
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
>    _______________________________________________
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Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [oi-dev] [discuss] Making OI friendly to new users

[Reginald Beardsley via illumos-discuss]

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 Till,

I just signed up as a $100/month sponsor. 

Kudos to whoever set up the donation link and including PayPal. That was an excellent experience.


Have Fun!
Reg

     On Saturday, August 16, 2025 at 04:21:10 AM CDT, Till Wegmüller <toasterson@gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Hi

Since we have no Association yet we have no Accounting Reports yet. 
Appart from the Server costs which is part a sponsoring from Krystal 
(fromerly Everycity) and part payed by me, Theophile, Nahum and Iggy 
there is nothing to Account for yet. We are planning on making some 
development work payed but that has not started yet. After that you will 
probably see Amount allocated per project but I don't know if that helps 
you much to decide about allocating funds.

Hope that helps with the layout of things at the moment
We do have small donation pages up at 
https://opencollective.com/openindiana where you can help redice the 
amount I pay for server costs and ohave proper book keeping. At the 
moment Two thirds of the 350EUR a month is payed by me and one third by 
Theo. Any contribution helps.

Till

On 16.08.25 04:10, Atiq Rahman wrote:
> Hi Till,
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
>  > I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue
> For me, this has been an issue. At present, the OI installer does not 
> present an option to install in UEFI system without dedicating a whole 
> disk to it.
> 
> As a workaround, I am choosing /Install_to_ExistingPool/ by pressing F5. 
> If you are following mailing lists you're probably seeing I am 
> reinventing the wheel: manually taking care of stuff the installer is 
> not doing when that option is chosen.
> 
> New users might not have that much energy to go through all that to add 
> an OS (or they might call it distro) to their portable device.
> 
> Also, for new contributors (on donation or funding side of the 
> foundation), where is the info related to the budget, for example, how 
> is budget allocated? How much appox. was spent on what part of the 
> products from prior funding? These info will help me understand how much 
> I should contribute or whether the plan will actually improve things we 
> are interested in and in reasonable time line. Because right now, 
> critical TODO tasks seem to be significantly delayed, if this is how it 
> continues prospect doesn't look good.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Atiq
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 3:04 AM Till Wegmüller <toasterson@gmail.com 
> <mailto:toasterson@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>    Hi Eric
> 
>    I am not aware on the non-CSM UEFI issue or the Proxmox one. I am not
>    always listening on all Lists, but we are trying to build a Association
>    with Stakeholders for that effort like the FreeBSD foundation. If you
>    are interested in signing up let me know so I can send you the details.
>    I kept things like the Bylaw drafts etc off list but I am happy to send
>    them through.
> 
>    -Till
> 
>    On 13.08.25 04:06, Eric J Bowman wrote:
>      > These responses prove OP's point exactly. Want gfx? Refer to the
>    manual
>      > on how to write your own driver, despite the problem being NV
>    Optimus
>      > cards "fall off the bus" because loader doesn't map above 4GB,
>    making it
>      > not a driver issue. Where's the guidance from the community,
>    other than
>      > go figure this out for yourself but don't bother us unless you
>    have code
>      > to commit, then if you get stuck... maybe this is why so few
>    developers?
>      > Maybe a 15-year out-of-date graphics stack is an argument against
>      > continuing largely as you have?
>      >
>      > Hard to work on the kernel when none of the distros boot on non-CSM
>      > UEFI, or the latest Proxmox, no Ventoy et al compatibility because
>      > it's /EFI not /efi... maybe those of you who know what the issues
>    are
>      > can write them down and solicit some specific help? Instead of
>    sending
>      > everyone who asks on a wild goose chase while you play the victim
>    card
>      > of "too few developers here"? Just say up front: No AMD gfx, no
>    Intel
>      > HD630+, no NV Optimus, no UEFI-only boxes need apply, instead of
>      > whatever compels all y'all to just keep ignoring folks who post
>    to your
>      > list, or giving them misleading answers...?
>      >
>      > Or just state outright, that the stakeholders who control access
>    aren't
>      > interested in making illumos friendly to new users in 2025, meaning
>      > it'll be gone by 2030 if y'all keep this up.
>      >
>      > -Eric
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > ---- On Tue, 12 Aug 2025 17:01:38 -0700 *Ren Kararou via illumos-
>    discuss
>      > <discuss@lists.illumos.org <mailto:discuss@lists.illumos.org>>*
>    wrote ---
>      >
>      >         You may say "ah, but I am not a kernel developer, I can
>    not do those
>      >         things"!  But the kernel is just a big C program, and
>    everybody
>      >         who is
>      >         comfortable working on it now started out from a point where
>      >         they were
>      >         not yet able to do that.
>      >
>      >         If you want to see progress, pick an issue and work on
>    it.  Other
>      >         folks in the community can provide advice and help you if
>    you get
>      >         stuck!  Otherwise, things will continue largely as they have.
>      >
>      >
>      >     Tacking on to this, the illumos website has lots of valuable
>      >     documentation on this exact topic, generally at https://
>    illumos.org/ <https://illumos.org/>
>      >     books/ <https://illumos.org/books/ <https://illumos.org/
>    books/>> and more specifically for
>      >     drivers and such at https://illumos.org/books/wdd/
>    preface.html <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html>
>      >     <https://illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface <https://
>    illumos.org/books/wdd/preface.html#preface>>
>      >
>      >     Ren
>      >     *illumos <https://illumos.topicbox.com/latest <https://
>    illumos.topicbox.com/latest>>* / illumos-discuss /
>      >     see discussions <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss
>    <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss>> +
>      >     participants <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/
>    members <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/members>> +
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>    discuss/ <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/discuss/>
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>    <https://illumos.topicbox.com/groups/>
>      >     discuss/T55bf4e75b420a66a-Mf843687360ce2211607ee7af>
>      >
>      >
>      >
> 
>    _______________________________________________
>    oi-dev mailing list
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>    https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev <https://
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> 

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