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Sat, 07 Sep 2024 13:12:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: FROM alka-r71@hfg-gmuend.de (217.250.220.253 [217.250.220.253]) (USING Unknown with Cipher AES_256(256), Exch Unknown(384), Hash SHA_384(0)) BY mail.hfg-gmuend.de (Rockliffe SMTPRA 10.4.0) WITH ESMTP ID FOR ; Sat, 7 Sep 2024 13:12:01 +0200 Message-ID: <71c95212-1882-4739-a00f-a6d8baf1624f@napp-it.org> Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2024 13:12:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [discuss] Illumos future and compatibility with Open-ZFS Content-Language: en-US To: discuss@lists.illumos.org References: <17228910420.eEB8eC.492388@composer.illumos.topicbox.com> <17229221550.caeC24Bb.35283@composer.illumos.topicbox.com> <17229261750.4b34C5Ff.10506@composer.illumos.topicbox.com> <17229544470.58aA.943111@composer.illumos.topicbox.com> <2bbc17be-ebb2-4b90-98ef-b804fa57b334@napp-it.org> Reply-To: gea@napp-it.org From: Gea In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4X19Rh0frlz52BH4 X-Rspamd-UID: 4c8127 Topicbox-Policy-Reasoning: allow: sender is a member Topicbox-Message-UUID: 191828f2-6d0a-11ef-9713-f231eaa63d5b Thank you for your detailled answer. I understand the stabilty aspect and value it very high and indeed Illumos ZFS has not seen as many problems up to dataloss in 10 years as one or the other Linux ZFS distribution in the last year. Unlike Linux every Illumos distribution is up to date with a clear and easy way to update to newest or downgrade. The OmniOS model of a bloody (current Illumos), stable (a freeze every 6 months) and a long term stable, each with its own repository undelines this strong focus on stability. This is something I don't want to miss so preserve an independent fork. Using code from newest Open-ZFS master is surely not a good idea, the question is how to take over code from a stable branch ex 2.2.6 or better a former with a better stability like 2.2.3 or what TrueNAS is using as stable branch. The real question from a user view is how to preserve compatibility with a ZFS pool from a current BSD, Debian, Ubuntu or TrueNAS and when to get important Open-ZFS features like ZSTD, Draid, Raid-Z exansion, Fast Dedup, direct io or higher limits ex on recsize and much more to come while value stability as item2. Stability and compatibility are not either or. Find a way to get newer Open-ZFS features including bugfix commits with the best achievable stability. Not to have newer ZFS features is not an option. Have your cake and eat it. In a perfect world with endless resources you can check, include and maintain every of these features on your own including bugfixes when they become known but is this thinkable? I suppose no, so the consequence is that you loose compatibility and lack more and more newer ZFS features. In the end >95% of all ZFS users are now using Open-ZFS and with such many users problem rate is not as bad and bugs are fixed in a quite short time. Maybe a staging model can be one solution like an older more stable Open-ZFS branch > Illumos testing > Illumos stable (similar to what current Illumos is), just like we see it in Open-ZFS or the OmniOS approach or in the Open-ZFS world with Open-ZFS forks on OSX or Windows. This would allow newest Open-ZFS features to appear with a delay but to appear for sure. Maybe newer long awaited bits like the recent NFS and SMB improvements have also a chance to appear in a Illumos testing branch for wider testings. Just one idea but a workable idea how to follow Open-ZFS development is critical or user base will lower not from year to year but month to month. I can see it in my own user base where most of my former Solaris/OI/OmniOS users from some years ago switched to Open-ZFS in the meantime, some to Qnap most to Debian/Proxmox/TrueNAS/Ubuntu. This is why I also switched my new ZFS client-server cs web-gui to Open-ZFS (any OS) without further development in the Solaris/Illumos SE edition beside bugfixes. Gea