* How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. @ 2004-09-29 12:35 Don Saklad [not found] ` <m28yat2mw4.fsf@Stella-Blue.local> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Don Saklad @ 2004-09-29 12:35 UTC (permalink / raw) A relative novice using emacs rmail does not have enough mastery to set up the dotfile for gnus email nor to do whatever other accompanying tasks to get gnus email up and running. What hints, tips and pointers are there for such users interested in trying gnus email that do not require more than a few moments of study through a steep that learning curve so perceived ?... The existing instructive informational links and newsgroups do assume a relatively advanced or intermediate level of user. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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* Re: How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. [not found] ` <y448yat883s.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu> @ 2004-09-29 15:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2004-09-29 16:08 ` Tim McNamara 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2004-09-29 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw) On 29 Sep 2004, dsaklad@nestle.csail.mit.edu wrote: > How do you figure out backend neither having any experience in > thinking about it nor even knowing the significance of backend ?... > > Backend appears too complicated a thing for many people with no > mastery or it would require dedicated study, too steep a learning > curve of more than a mere few moments. Backends are explained in the Gnus manual. Reading the manual is a requirement for using Gnus, you can't just expect it to "work" (there are other news readers that do that). Gnus will have setup assistants one day. It doesn't now, so setup is a manual chore. If you or anyone else would like to work on the setup assistants, that would help - they are at the embryo stage now. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. [not found] ` <y448yat883s.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu> 2004-09-29 15:47 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2004-09-29 16:08 ` Tim McNamara [not found] ` <4nmzz99f3i.fsf@lifelogs.com> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Tim McNamara @ 2004-09-29 16:08 UTC (permalink / raw) Don Saklad <dsaklad@nestle.csail.mit.edu> writes: > Thank you Tim McNamara ! > > How do you figure out backend neither having any experience in > thinking about it nor even knowing the significance of backend ?... > > Backend appears too complicated a thing for many people with no > mastery or it would require dedicated study, too steep a learning > curve of more than a mere few moments. I don't know if there is a default backend for Gnus per se, I just went with nnmail by chance, basically. I'm perfectly satisfied with it. The upside of Gnus is that it's very powerful with many many options. The downside of Gnus is that it's very powerful with many many options. While it's not user-unfriendly IMHO, it is not beginner friendly. It requires thinking about things that one may not know how to think about yet. This is complicated by Emacs and Gnus using terminology (hooks, yank, kill-ring, etc.) that is not shared with non-Emacs applications or operating systems (Emacs predating most of them by a good many years). Indeed, I think that's the steepest part of the learning curve. If one wanted to make Emacs more accessible to most users, the terminology should be revised to be more consistent with what Windows and Mac users are familiar with- cutting, pasting, clipboard, etc. Of course, the other side of the coin is that this would baffle and obfuscate the entire installed user base of Emacs! Users migrating to Gnus and Emacs from other Unix applications might have an easier time than those of us coming from Windows or Mac OS/OS X since we don't edit preference files directly and aren't used to doing this. For GUI-babies like me, whose first computer was a Mac 512Ke bought in 1986, having a nice little window (buffer) in which to enter the relevant server and user information, which would then write to .gnus, would make things much simpler. I would think that the Customize menu would be able to accommodate this. BTW, it should be easier to navigate to the Gnus customization group with the Options menu- perhaps the menu should automatically display a "Customize <active mode>" item? This would prevent having to hunt through the various Customize groups hierarchies. If this isn't possible, I would think that one could set up a sample .gnus for new users to edit, using nnmail (or nnimap, as the case may be). This would get them started quickly with a backend that's pretty easy to use. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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* Re: How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. [not found] ` <m31xgjhh51.fsf@localhost.localdomain> @ 2004-10-01 8:35 ` Don Saklad 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Don Saklad @ 2004-10-01 8:35 UTC (permalink / raw) The difficulty with dotfiles is presuming that novice users with no mastery can set up the code in the dotfile easily. For those with mastery what is really needed is an automatic set up type of thing requiring no previous experience. The limits of knowledge for those with mastery extends to not being able to make it ever easier and straight forward. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. @ 2004-10-04 8:31 Don Saklad [not found] ` <y44pt3yev4y.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Don Saklad @ 2004-10-04 8:31 UTC (permalink / raw) How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=5iacv6x2cq.fsf%40fencepost.gnu.org&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26group%3Dgnu.emacs.gnus ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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* Re: How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. [not found] ` <5i7jq6cpku.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> @ 2004-10-05 0:34 ` Tim McNamara [not found] ` <878yam5n9v.fsf@koldfront.dk> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Tim McNamara @ 2004-10-05 0:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Don Saklad <dsaklad@gnu.org> writes: > The argument looked arrogant because the whole idea of computer > software technology is to simplify ! No, the whole idea of computer software technology is to enable the performance of tasks that were heretofore cumbersome or difficult. Computers are great at repeating tasks that would drive a human nuts, and rapidly performing time consuming calculations. What you are talking about is actually the human interface aspect of an operating system. The purpose of the interface is to permit the user to operate the software; modern GUI interfaces simplify this dramatically but at the expense of flexibility and power. The Unix command line offers useful abilities that GUIs do not, for example, but takes some actual knowledge rather than an intuitive approach. Operating systems that allow both offer the best of both worlds. Emacs and Gnus are not simple applications. They are extraordinarily powerful, arguably Gnus is the most powerful newsreader/mail client available. Many people do not need all the power at their disposal (I'm one of those, but I use Gnus anyway). I think there are some things that could be done to make it easier on newbies, but by the same token that steep learning curve results in rapid mastery. That's what steep learning curves do. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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* Re: How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. [not found] ` <878yam5n9v.fsf@koldfront.dk> @ 2004-10-05 1:00 ` Dan Muller [not found] ` <m2vfdpua7e.fsf@Stella-Blue.local> 0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread From: Dan Muller @ 2004-10-05 1:00 UTC (permalink / raw) asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes: > On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:20:49 GMT, Don wrote: > >> The argument looked arrogant because the whole idea of computer >> software technology is to simplify ! > > Let say someone wants to boil some water for a nice cup of tea. > > Two ways of boiling water are putting a kettle on the stove, and > heating up the water with a blowtorch. First thought that came to mind: Put the kettle on the stove, _and_ use the blowtorch! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
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* Re: How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery. [not found] ` <m2vfdpua7e.fsf@Stella-Blue.local> @ 2004-10-05 3:50 ` Dan Muller 0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread From: Dan Muller @ 2004-10-05 3:50 UTC (permalink / raw) Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes: > Dan Muller <itd98ds02@sneakemail.com> writes: > >> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes: >> >>> On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:20:49 GMT, Don wrote: >>> >>>> The argument looked arrogant because the whole idea of computer >>>> software technology is to simplify ! >>> >>> Let say someone wants to boil some water for a nice cup of tea. >>> >>> Two ways of boiling water are putting a kettle on the stove, and >>> heating up the water with a blowtorch. >> >> First thought that came to mind: Put the kettle on the stove, _and_ >> use the blowtorch! > > The belt and suspenders approach. Sort of like Mac OS X! Hey, now, don't mix metaphors. This is about brewing tea faster, not keeping pants up. :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2004-10-05 3:50 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2004-09-29 12:35 How to set up gnus email for novices with little mastery Don Saklad [not found] ` <m28yat2mw4.fsf@Stella-Blue.local> [not found] ` <y448yat883s.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu> 2004-09-29 15:47 ` Ted Zlatanov 2004-09-29 16:08 ` Tim McNamara [not found] ` <4nmzz99f3i.fsf@lifelogs.com> [not found] ` <m2oejosycp.fsf@Stella-Blue.local> [not found] ` <4nwtybpyxe.fsf@lifelogs.com> [not found] ` <m31xgjhh51.fsf@localhost.localdomain> 2004-10-01 8:35 ` Don Saklad 2004-10-04 8:31 Don Saklad [not found] ` <y44pt3yev4y.fsf@nestle.csail.mit.edu> [not found] ` <y68llemh8fp.fsf@contents-vnder-pressvre.mit.edu> [not found] ` <5i7jq6cpku.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> 2004-10-05 0:34 ` Tim McNamara [not found] ` <878yam5n9v.fsf@koldfront.dk> 2004-10-05 1:00 ` Dan Muller [not found] ` <m2vfdpua7e.fsf@Stella-Blue.local> 2004-10-05 3:50 ` Dan Muller
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