Re: pop3 leave on server, then fetch, Expire = delete from server

[Peter Davis <pd@world.std.com>]

Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes:

> * prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc)  on Thu, 02 May 2002
> | AFAICT, there are no unsafe servers.  There are *unusable* servers,
> | but they are reliably detectable.
> 
> Not always, or not easilly.  qpopper 4 can be compiled such that a
> successful RETR automatically causes the server to silently issue a DELE to
> itself.  "Leave mail on server" will never work for a server compiled that
> way.

In that case, it wouldn't matter whether the user tried to leave mail
on server or not.  Or are you saying that if there's no "leave on
server" capability, users will have no expectation of having their
mail saved, so they will work around that?

I think it seems overly cautious to me to cripple an entire software
product because of the eccentricities of one particular POP server
compiled with some particular set of options.

> > [...]
> | Even with timeouts, it seems that bouncing is the worst that can happen;
> | mail will never be *silently* lost.
> 
> I am not absolutely certain of that.  I have seen Outlook and Eudora
> silently lose entire drops worth of mail, but only when the client has
> "delete message from server after downloading" disabled.  I have been
> unable to determine exactly why it has happened.  That makes me skittish
> about the whole idea.

I've used Eudora for over 7 years, with the "leave on server" option,
getting hundreds of messages per day, and have *never* lost a message
from the server.

Outlook I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole anyway.

> > [...]
> | I don't think that's necessary.  There could be a single list of UIDLs
> | associated with Gnus article numbers and marks.  An entry would not be
> | removed until we see a UIDL list from the server that does not contain
> | the corresponding UIDL.  If an article was supposed to be deleted, but
> | was not, then it would still have the 'expire mark later, so it would
> | automatically be DELE'd again.
> 
> You make it sound so simple.
> Try implementing it, and see for yourself that it is not so simple.

epop3mail creates files like

    .uidls.pd.world.std.com

The name of the file gives the exact account information for the
server from which those messages were fetched.  It seems to me that
marking those messages for deletion, and then having a function which
connects to that server, check for, and deletes those messages, should
be do-able.  No?

Right now, I can't even set up gnus to delete from one server and
leave messages on another.  That would at least make gnus usable for
me.  Even with epop3mail (or XEmacs with the mail-lib pop3.el), I
can't do this with gnus.  VM has this capability.

-pd


-- 
--------
                             Peter Davis
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