From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.user/11765 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.user Subject: Re: What's a killed article ? Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:51:22 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <861vvyec9h.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <878wqx82hp.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <87prk74tx9.fsf@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de> <86ej0mldi7.fsf@lifelogs.com> <864p1ek6up.fsf@lifelogs.com> <877i6a7da1.fsf@kobe.laptop> <87k5a03l8e.fsf@kobe.laptop> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1230075660 24113 80.91.229.12 (23 Dec 2008 23:41:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:41:00 +0000 (UTC) To: info-gnus-english@gnu.org Original-X-From: info-gnus-english-bounces+gegu-info-gnus-english=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 24 00:42:05 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: gegu-info-gnus-english@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LFGt2-0000fG-Pa for gegu-info-gnus-english@m.gmane.org; Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:42:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36606 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LFGrq-0005Rt-32 for gegu-info-gnus-english@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:40:50 -0500 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.freenet.de!news.albasani.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.gnus Original-Lines: 107 Original-X-Trace: news.albasani.net d6cZk8P+7Z2XGvWOvWKKgprR96uly253osvh9kx7cdqv0S96TdbTf59vmdXx+ZbMb3BnQOMoD3CoSdA4a+n1HjlV4ABWBpmIo8vhndnXYtZ3g7I6WyKqeNfyn5Zbprxj Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@albasani.net Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:51:18 +0000 (UTC) X-User-ID: 8cx5/SKfpWTT23V92h7USFXnpUyJij+MDkGR5JkCC7w= X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZE/dU8EIKgFp++Co3mPBtNTS0LY= sha1:Uu++UPSVKLZ2PjWECQS42TkfwQY= User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-NNTP-Posting-Host: njidwW63rMVKPX0w0G+kalgfG0voNo5JPxUJ5IQ0IfM= Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.gnus:82024 X-BeenThere: info-gnus-english@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader \(in English\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: info-gnus-english-bounces+gegu-info-gnus-english=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: info-gnus-english-bounces+gegu-info-gnus-english=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.user:11765 Archived-At: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:00:52 +0100 harven wrote: h> From the top of my head, some terms, either ambiguous or defined too h> late in the manual (note the below are thoughts that can go into the manual eventually, but I think it's too early) h> - MAIL BACK END (info "(gnus)Comparing mail back ends") The list of h> all available mail backends should be given sooner The following h> list appears in 1.5.3 (`nnml', `nnbabyl', `nnfolder', h> `nnmbox',`nnmh', and `nnmaildir') but nnimap is also mentioned in h> 3.22 and others are alluded to at 6.3.13 It would be nice if real h> life config examples were given for each of them and if their h> different features and limitations were summarized somewhere. I think a full backend list is useful and should probably be referenced at the front of the manual ("here's what Gnus can do...") but it should not live there. OTOH, the full list of protocols that Gnus can handle is urgently needed by new users and should probably be in the first section (with references to the later chapters that define them). I agree about configuration examples too. "back end" is defined early in the Terminology appendix, by the way. That's where updated definitions we discuss here will go. Do you think the definition is poor? h> For example, I tried to use nnmbox to browse some archive and got the h> following: Article mail.misc:1190 out of order. This seems specific h> to that backend, and still mysterious for me. I don't know what causes that, I don't use nnmbox, sorry. h> - IDLE (info "(gnus)Daemons") h> what does exactly idle means ? Can really emacs be idle ? h> Is emacs idle between that short time separating two keystrokes ? h> Fetching mail freezes emacs, some warning and comments h> would be welcome here. Unfortunately "IDLE" has an IMAP meaning too. Specifically for Daemons, "idle" means that Emacs is not busy running ELisp code. Emacs can indeed be idle, and it can do things automatically at those times. It's not idle between consecutive ELisp function calls, but it's idle between two keystrokes (font-lock uses that, for example). Asynchronous mail retrieval is indeed a badly needed feature. What should we say/promise/warn? It's basically a statement of "we know Emacs as a whole freezes while you get your mail, sorry." h> - GNUS-SECONDARY-SELECT-METHODS h> and gnus-select-method. A single select method but many secondary h> methods ? Why differentiate ? For better or worse, Gnus has made the decision that the primary select method will have unqualified group names. Thus, if you have a group "mail", it really refers to "primary_select_method:mail". All secondary select methods are full (including the select method's name). I think it's best to use nnil as the primary and have all the groups look the same, fully qualified, but I'm sure many people like the brevity of the primary select method. h> Is it correct to put a mail group as the primary method ? Yes, and Gnus backend can be used AFAIK. h> In the following h> (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.yourprovider.net")) h> "news.yourprovider.net" is the address used for news retrieval Correct. h> whereas dolk is not the address for retrieval in h> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods h> '((nnimap "dolk" (nnimap-address "localhost") (nnimap-server-port 1430)))) Correct. The address is inferred from the method name if it's not specified otherwise; in addition each backend has its own way of specifying the address. h> Or is it ? There are reports in this newsgroup of people getting in h> trouble if "dolk" is used instead of the nnimap address. I ran into h> that problem once. I remember these reports. They are bugs and should be filed as such; I thought they were resolved but I may be wrong. h> BTW I think it would be better to improve the GnusTutorial on h> emacswiki instead of modifying the Gnus manual. Generally, it's been accepted by Gnus developers that the manual should not depend on external resources. The tutorial would be bundled with the manual, so I don't think it should live on an external site. The external site, however, could be kept in sync on CVS commits or manually. On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 10:17:07 +0200 Giorgos Keramidas wrote: GK> My gut feeling is that the Gnus manual has *everything* but it is GK> written more like a reference and not really as a tutorial. Maybe it GK> would be worth writing an accompanying manual, i.e. something called GK> `gnus-tutorial.info', that we can point new users to :-) I agree. It's very hard for someone who doesn't understand the basics of Emacs Lisp to configure Gnus. I tried to push the Gnus assistants (see assistant.el) but there's been no interest in them after I made my initial proposals and Lars wrote a good version. Ted