From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,INVALID_MSGID,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10195 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2023 21:19:02 -0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (209.51.188.17) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Oct 2023 21:19:02 -0000 Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtwtC-0000EQ-5l; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:18:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtwtA-0000E9-Ir for info-gnus-english@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:18:36 -0400 Received: from thaodan.de ([2a03:4000:4f:f15::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtwt5-00088s-CI for info-gnus-english@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2023 17:18:36 -0400 Received: from odin (dsl-trebng12-50dc77-87.dhcp.inet.fi [80.220.119.87]) by thaodan.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D531D08DB9; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 00:18:22 +0300 (EEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=thaodan.de; s=mail; t=1697836702; bh=0OpnmUTqxYn5jue8djwfl8Lgfgp3w26bj/dbIWhkdU4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=nP6UehgDyQr3wrbB1x9lkPVlId8LRM51UsCQSGExxQcD5Up+a0kCkpUn29ZiCNYF8 gfBD45+WZdaz5A++gTtxP/otygwwRv0u0TCNa0b0JdTbSVadJ+rf+lWEnrEUNVthur BEPxjhYcw8XrP+VvmMEvKegemeijj3Ln+/INz/flkO9s09pQcohBIYMl3gjyKqhph9 c7YrkdRQxaAbAEFMMrfgGCzBEfmMGvwUrjkUTamcPeTjuRpM77PcTP2bgtubWD18iB +OW0ieiKi/huTVyJR4fo80e5N0GJ1Nla87Kmn526lgMT3Wz3SfayeTw0K18yJQNnwE bSNI6AbAcX24lEZhQhZ5uinn02D6SKzGQ2Sa7qgNQHS6uHyBOEIA1eSQn9gaQXbCAR aJJJka5/fDUXWAxmEpPW7RDir83k01PCsSjusGv8Jbjp/zitzGIBNNJCDEhESjDyst gavixQZpdux+3dHU0QYhqMr/2GzmXyXCwi+FF44KVzxlIAuFWI3fznR28YXk32NKSl R2vZar3t+fr42HNmr3TpSz+hdupOmxHesmQDh9a6Nk/gaH5tkVQaWUvWyAdkI2RgZo gL8v6G+3YNfaKFcSSMpcVfVh3MexUhVZMYx+esjzZ5TM1PVp46IPvsQnaUxF344s+k DPPYNuVyfKAjXKNRNJu5Xug4= From: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Bidar To: Bob Newell Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , info-gnus-english@gnu.org Subject: Re: Does Gnus read and sync the read with IMAP? In-Reply-To: <87bkctum9n.tcnukfs@dyoxh.ndpsknp.info> (Bob Newell's message of "Fri, 20 Oct 2023 09:28:04 -1000") References: <65316d26.050a0220.cf46d.a86aSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <87pm1ajru6.vaieud@sxvlwsiny.lyvnxaimo.net> <6531aa57.050a0220.a965a.55e5SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <87sf66m7pn.fsf@web.de> <87edhq80f6.qtuqpnw@ymvf.vhkf.net> <87il71dimy.fsf@web.de> <87h6ml8k62.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87fs25un5f.dmfh@kegxvrd.lpahitv.info> <87bkctum9n.tcnukfs@dyoxh.ndpsknp.info> Autocrypt: addr=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEZNfpPhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACBEmr+0xwIIHZfIDlZmm7sa+lHHSb0g9FZrN6qE6ru60JUJq w7ZybiBCaWRhciA8Ympvcm4uYmlkYXJAdGhhb2Rhbi5kZT6IlgQTFgoAPgIbAwULCQgHAgIiAgYV CgkICwIEFgIDAQIeBwIXgBYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1/YmAhkBAAoJEFwbdKFl HF9oB9cBAJoIIGQKXm4cpap+Flxc/EGnYl0123lcEyzuduqvlDT0AQC3OlFKm/OiqJ8IMTrzJRZ8 phFssTkSrrFXnM2jm5PYDoiTBBMWCgA7FiEEUfF263VHMB6nKairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX6T4CGwMF CwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgcCF4AACgkQXBt0oWUcX2hbCQEAtru7kvM8hi8zo6z9ux2h K+B5xViKuo7Z8K3IXuK5ugwA+wUfKzomzdBPhfxDsqLcEziGRxoyx0Q3ld9aermBUccHtBxCasO2 cm4gQmlkYXIgPG1lQHRoYW9kYW4uZGU+iJMEExYKADsCGwMFCwkIBwICIgIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwEC HgcCF4AWIQRR8XbrdUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf2FQAKCRBcG3ShZRxfaCzSAP4hZ7cSp0YN XYpcjHdsySh2MuBhhoPeLGXs+2kSiqBiOwD/TP8AgPEg/R+SI9GI9on7fBJJ0mp2IT8kZ2rhDOjg gA6IkwQTFgoAOxYhBFHxdut1RzAepymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1+ntAhsDBQsJCAcCAiICBhUKCQgL AgQWAgMBAh4HAheAAAoJEFwbdKFlHF9oBgwA/iQHwe0VL4Df4GGTYlNjMSHFlIkBmN4UfYGLYj3E TrOUAQC51M+M3cjsL8WHdpBz6VAo6df9d+rVwhQ9vQuFHqevArg4BGTX6T4SCisGAQQBl1UBBQEB B0Cbohc3JEfn005/cm0AOGjSsW1ZxAkgaoVNjbpqk4MgNAMBCAeIeAQYFgoAIBYhBFHxdut1RzAe pymoq1wbdKFlHF9oBQJk1+k+AhsMAAoJEFwbdKFlHF9ooHABAKGmrGBic/Vys3BBrOQiRB3Z7izO HwhqTRpAqFZtXS2nAQDZhp/5aYw1TZjTzkm1KVt9QiYnjd/MvxRE9iaY6x4mDbgzBGTX6T4WCSsG AQQB2kcPAQEHQAgRJq/tMcCCB2XyA5WZpu7GvpRx0m9IPRWazeqhOq7uiO8EGBYKACAWIQRR8Xbr dUcwHqcpqKtcG3ShZRxfaAUCZNf71AIbIgCBCRBcG3ShZRxfaHYgBBkWCgAdFiEEUfF263VHMB6n KairXBt0oWUcX2gFAmTX+9QACgkQXBt0oWUcX2jeSwD6AtWn0cuo8IF35YRo4o3cDRJnUfJnbvJy GxyCDThR+zYBAKG6/jdwmZkBQZKslnDAbMMd2WfiZZT5JW3IWC4EaKMO7HkBAKYPGZ3UbfkRvfFK S+pQ9CgtNfkSJQBtT1Ob7Y6nsacgAQCpyXN7yppmhW/oBgivITPy9Lkg+V4NK9WZYZCU9Q7LBA== Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 00:18:21 +0300 Message-ID: <877cnh0z8i.fsf@> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:4f:f15::1; envelope-from=bjorn.bidar@thaodan.de; helo=thaodan.de X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, INVALID_MSGID=0.568, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: info-gnus-english@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader \(in English\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: info-gnus-english-bounces+ml=inbox.vuxu.org@gnu.org Sender: info-gnus-english-bounces+ml=inbox.vuxu.org@gnu.org Bob Newell writes: >> 3. But here's the big one, and one that I thought I understood >> but seem to get inconsistent results. At what point does gnus >> update the IMAP server? In other words, I read an article. >> In the summary buffer that article definitely is now shown as >> read. But that doesn't propagate instantly to the IMAP >> server. I can see this by (say) opening a gmail web interface >> and noting that the article I just read on gnus is still >> unread on gmail web. (I will try a few test cases on my own >> to see what I can learn.) > > Although this is getting pretty gmail specific, it makes some > sense. To gmail, INBOX and All Mail are simply labels and an > email is not actually moved from one to the other; /all/ mail > /always/ exists in All Mail and 'moving' from INBOX simply > means removing the INBOX label. (The exception is Trash and > Spam.) > These folders also exist in other imap servers such as dovecot. I'm not sure if they are standard but dovecot creates them by grouping all folders with for example the seen flag. > But gnus treats these as actual groups (call them folders if > you wish). Now, when the email is moved out of INBOX to All > Mail, and you exit INBOX, I'm guessing that the All Mail > 'read' status isn't updated because gnus views that as a truly > separate group. I know GNUS can create virtual groups but I don't think that's transferred of to these Groups coming from Imap folders. https://doc.dovecot.org/configuration_manual/namespace/#core_setting-namespace/mailbox/special_use Based upon RFC 6154. > I think things are a lot simpler with traditional email which > has true IMAP folders. But as a practical matter, if a few > emails are shown as unread, whether in gnus or another client, > it isn't a show-stopper. It's not about inconsistency is an issue I think.