Best way to see html stuff

Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

Quit often I get mails where I don't see stuff included in html (I
guess).  What is the best settings and ways to see what people using
e.g. outlook includes in there mail?
-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Tassilo Horn]

Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:

Hi Torben,

> Quit often I get mails where I don't see stuff included in html (I
> guess).  What is the best settings and ways to see what people using
> e.g. outlook includes in there mail?

I use these settings for rendering html mail:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;; Use emacs-w3m to render html mails and display images
(setq mm-text-html-renderer 'w3m
      mm-inline-text-html-with-images t
      mm-inline-large-images t)

;; Show plain text part by default, but provide buttons for the
;; html part
(setq mm-discouraged-alternatives '("text/html" "text/richtext" "text/enriched")
      gnus-buttonized-mime-types  '("multipart/signed" "multipart/alternative"))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Of course, you need w3m and emacs-w3m to use it.

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

>>>>> "Tassilo" == Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

Tassilo> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes: Hi Torben,

>> Quit often I get mails where I don't see stuff included in html (I
>> guess).  What is the best settings and ways to see what people
>> using e.g. outlook includes in there mail?

Tassilo> I use these settings for rendering html mail:

Tassilo> --8<---------------cut
Tassilo> here---------------start------------->8--- ;; Use emacs-w3m
Tassilo> to render html mails and display images (setq
Tassilo> mm-text-html-renderer 'w3m mm-inline-text-html-with-images t
Tassilo> mm-inline-large-images t)

Tassilo> ;; Show plain text part by default, but provide buttons for
Tassilo> the ;; html part (setq mm-discouraged-alternatives
Tassilo> '("text/html" "text/richtext" "text/enriched")
Tassilo> gnus-buttonized-mime-types '("multipart/signed"
Tassilo> "multipart/alternative")) --8<---------------cut
Tassilo> here---------------end--------------->8---

Tassilo> Of course, you need w3m and emacs-w3m to use it.

Do you have a suggestion that works with firefox?

Another question if I may.  I am normally happy with the above
inclusion of the the original mail.  However, for example in this
case the filling makes the original part with code unreadable.  How
do you include the original without filling or wrapping lines?  I
couldn't find it in the info pages.

-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Quotation style (was: Best way to see html stuff)

[Teemu Likonen]

Torben Knudsen (2008-12-16 09:12 +0100) wrote:

> Tassilo> ;; Show plain text part by default, but provide buttons for
> Tassilo> the ;; html part (setq mm-discouraged-alternatives
> Tassilo> '("text/html" "text/richtext" "text/enriched")
> Tassilo> gnus-buttonized-mime-types '("multipart/signed"
> Tassilo> "multipart/alternative")) --8<---------------cut
> Tassilo> here---------------end--------------->8---

> Another question if I may. I am normally happy with the above
> inclusion of the the original mail. However, for example in this case
> the filling makes the original part with code unreadable. How do you
> include the original without filling or wrapping lines? I couldn't
> find it in the info pages.

Another way of seeing this is that quoting is not about "your happiness"
(nor mine) in particular. It's more about widely-supported method
(technical question) and widely-understood and agreed-on method
(social). I'd suggest that you quote with "> " prefix on every line, add
an attribution like "Torben Knudsen wrote:" and don't have Gnus
automatically refill the quoted text.

Just my suggestion. I find Supercite quotations most annoying.

Re: Quotation style (was: Best way to see html stuff)

[Torben Knudsen]

Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:

> Torben Knudsen (2008-12-16 09:12 +0100) wrote:
>
>> Tassilo> ;; Show plain text part by default, but provide buttons for
>> Tassilo> the ;; html part (setq mm-discouraged-alternatives
>> Tassilo> '("text/html" "text/richtext" "text/enriched")
>> Tassilo> gnus-buttonized-mime-types '("multipart/signed"
>> Tassilo> "multipart/alternative")) --8<---------------cut
>> Tassilo> here---------------end--------------->8---
>
>> Another question if I may. I am normally happy with the above
>> inclusion of the the original mail. However, for example in this case
>> the filling makes the original part with code unreadable. How do you
>> include the original without filling or wrapping lines? I couldn't
>> find it in the info pages.
>
> Another way of seeing this is that quoting is not about "your happiness"
> (nor mine) in particular. It's more about widely-supported method
> (technical question) and widely-understood and agreed-on method
> (social). I'd suggest that you quote with "> " prefix on every line, add
> an attribution like "Torben Knudsen wrote:" and don't have Gnus
> automatically refill the quoted text.
>
> Just my suggestion. I find Supercite quotations most annoying.

As you see I followed your suggestion and commented out my supercite
lines in .gnus.  Thanks for the advice

-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Tassilo Horn]

Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:

Hi Torben,

> Do you have a suggestion that works with firefox?

,----[ C-h v mm-text-html-renderer RET ]
| mm-text-html-renderer is a variable defined in `mm-decode.el'.
| Its value is w3m
| 
| Documentation:
| Render of HTML contents.
| It is one of defined renderer types, or a rendering function.
| The defined renderer types are:
| `w3m'  : use emacs-w3m;
| `w3m-standalone': use w3m;
| `links': use links;
| `lynx' : use lynx;
| `w3'   : use Emacs/W3;
| `html2text' : use html2text;
| nil    : use external viewer (default web browser).
| 
| You can customize this variable.
| 
| This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
| version 23.0 of Emacs.
`----

So try

  (setq mm-text-html-renderer nil)

and see what happens.  (Maybe you also need to set
browse-url-browser-function to browse-url-firefox.)

Bye,
Tassilo

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:
>
> Hi Torben,
>
>> Do you have a suggestion that works with firefox?
>
> ,----[ C-h v mm-text-html-renderer RET ]
> | mm-text-html-renderer is a variable defined in `mm-decode.el'.
> | Its value is w3m
> | 
> | Documentation:
> | Render of HTML contents.
> | It is one of defined renderer types, or a rendering function.
> | The defined renderer types are:
> | `w3m'  : use emacs-w3m;
> | `w3m-standalone': use w3m;
> | `links': use links;
> | `lynx' : use lynx;
> | `w3'   : use Emacs/W3;
> | `html2text' : use html2text;
> | nil    : use external viewer (default web browser).
> | 
> | You can customize this variable.
> | 
> | This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> | version 23.0 of Emacs.
> `----
>
> So try
>
>   (setq mm-text-html-renderer nil)
>
> and see what happens.  (Maybe you also need to set
> browse-url-browser-function to browse-url-firefox.)
>
I have tryed:

(setq mm-text-html-renderer nil)
(setq browse-url-browser-function 'browse-url-firefox)

this gives me some links I probably didn't  se before.  However, w3m
is used to show it not firefox.  I can't figure out why.  Can you?

-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Tassilo Horn]

Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:

Hi Torben,

>> ,----[ C-h v mm-text-html-renderer RET ]
>> | mm-text-html-renderer is a variable defined in `mm-decode.el'.
>> | Its value is w3m
>> | 
>> | Documentation:
>> | Render of HTML contents.
>> | It is one of defined renderer types, or a rendering function.
>> | The defined renderer types are:
>> | `w3m'  : use emacs-w3m;
>> | `w3m-standalone': use w3m;
>> | `links': use links;
>> | `lynx' : use lynx;
>> | `w3'   : use Emacs/W3;
>> | `html2text' : use html2text;
>> | nil    : use external viewer (default web browser).
>> | 
>> | You can customize this variable.
>> | 
>> | This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
>> | version 23.0 of Emacs.
>> `----
>>
>> So try
>>
>>   (setq mm-text-html-renderer nil)
>>
>> and see what happens.  (Maybe you also need to set
>> browse-url-browser-function to browse-url-firefox.)
>>
> I have tryed:
>
> (setq mm-text-html-renderer nil)
> (setq browse-url-browser-function 'browse-url-firefox)
>
> this gives me some links I probably didn't se before.  However, w3m is
> used to show it not firefox.  I can't figure out why.  Can you?

Hm, mm-text-html-renderer was changed in emacs 23 (the version I use).
What do the docs say in your emacs version (`C-h v
mm-text-html-renderer').

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
          "Emacs is not a development tool but a way of life."
                - David Kastrup in alt.religion.emacs -

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:
>
> Hi Torben,
>
>>> ,----[ C-h v mm-text-html-renderer RET ]
>>> | mm-text-html-renderer is a variable defined in `mm-decode.el'.
>>> | Its value is w3m
>>> | 
>>> | Documentation:
>>> | Render of HTML contents.
>>> | It is one of defined renderer types, or a rendering function.
>>> | The defined renderer types are:
>>> | `w3m'  : use emacs-w3m;
>>> | `w3m-standalone': use w3m;
>>> | `links': use links;
>>> | `lynx' : use lynx;
>>> | `w3'   : use Emacs/W3;
>>> | `html2text' : use html2text;
>>> | nil    : use external viewer (default web browser).
>>> | 
>>> | You can customize this variable.
>>> | 
>>> | This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
>>> | version 23.0 of Emacs.
>>> `----
>>>
>>> So try
>>>
>>>   (setq mm-text-html-renderer nil)
>>>
>>> and see what happens.  (Maybe you also need to set
>>> browse-url-browser-function to browse-url-firefox.)
>>>
>> I have tryed:
>>
>> (setq mm-text-html-renderer nil)
>> (setq browse-url-browser-function 'browse-url-firefox)
>>
>> this gives me some links I probably didn't se before.  However, w3m is
>> used to show it not firefox.  I can't figure out why.  Can you?
>
> Hm, mm-text-html-renderer was changed in emacs 23 (the version I use).
> What do the docs say in your emacs version (`C-h v
> mm-text-html-renderer').
>
I get the below which to me seems to comply with what you suggested.

mm-text-html-renderer is a variable defined in `mm-decode.el'.
Its value is nil


Documentation:
Render of HTML contents.
It is one of defined renderer types, or a rendering function.
The defined renderer types are:
`w3'   : use Emacs/W3;
`w3m'  : use emacs-w3m;
`w3m-standalone': use w3m;
`links': use links;
`lynx' : use lynx;
`html2text' : use html2text;
nil    : use external viewer.

You can customize this variable.

[back]

-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Tassilo Horn]

Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:

Hi Torben,

>> Hm, mm-text-html-renderer was changed in emacs 23 (the version I
>> use).  What do the docs say in your emacs version (`C-h v
>> mm-text-html-renderer').
>>
> I get the below which to me seems to comply with what you suggested.
>
> [...]
> nil    : use external viewer.
> [...]

I tried setting mm-text-html-renderer to nil and with that HTML mails
are displayed in a external terminal with lynx, although I've set
browse-url-browser-function to browse-url-generic and
browse-url-generic-program to "midori".

So I guess the "default browser / external viewer" the docs are talking
about is not the one you've set with browse-url-browser-function, but
the browser that's inside the users ~/.mailcap or /etc/mailcap.

Maybe the docs should make that clearer.  You may want to start a
discussion on ding@gnus.org.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
      "OS's and GUI's come and go, only Emacs has lasting power."
          Per Abrahamsen in <rjbsysc7n1.fsf@zuse.dina.kvl.dk>

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:
>
> Hi Torben,
>
>>> Hm, mm-text-html-renderer was changed in emacs 23 (the version I
>>> use).  What do the docs say in your emacs version (`C-h v
>>> mm-text-html-renderer').
>>>
>> I get the below which to me seems to comply with what you suggested.
>>
>> [...]
>> nil    : use external viewer.
>> [...]
>
> I tried setting mm-text-html-renderer to nil and with that HTML mails
> are displayed in a external terminal with lynx, although I've set
> browse-url-browser-function to browse-url-generic and
> browse-url-generic-program to "midori".
>
> So I guess the "default browser / external viewer" the docs are talking
> about is not the one you've set with browse-url-browser-function, but
> the browser that's inside the users ~/.mailcap or /etc/mailcap.
>
> Maybe the docs should make that clearer.  You may want to start a
> discussion on ding@gnus.org.
>

I am not sure I have the time for that.  Thanks for all your help.
-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:
>
> Hi Torben,
>
>>> Hm, mm-text-html-renderer was changed in emacs 23 (the version I
>>> use).  What do the docs say in your emacs version (`C-h v
>>> mm-text-html-renderer').
>>>
>> I get the below which to me seems to comply with what you suggested.
>>
>> [...]
>> nil    : use external viewer.
>> [...]
>
> I tried setting mm-text-html-renderer to nil and with that HTML mails
> are displayed in a external terminal with lynx, although I've set
> browse-url-browser-function to browse-url-generic and
> browse-url-generic-program to "midori".
>
> So I guess the "default browser / external viewer" the docs are talking
> about is not the one you've set with browse-url-browser-function, but
> the browser that's inside the users ~/.mailcap or /etc/mailcap.
>

I now have a .mailcap as below which makes the text/html show up in
firefox.  So you succeded in getting it working for me.

#% Time-stamp: <2008-12-17 12:23:34 tk>
#
#  MIME types and programs that process those types
#
#  Using template from /etc/mailcap
#  

# application/pdf; evince '%s'; test=test -n "$DISPLAY" ; nametemplate=%s.pdf
application/pdf; acroread '%s'; test=test -n "$DISPLAY" ; nametemplate=%s.pdf
#application/pdf; /usr/bin/gv '%s'; test=test -n "$DISPLAY"
#text/html; /usr/bin/w3m -dump -T text/html '%s'; copiousoutput; description=HTML Text; nametemplate=%s.html
text/html; firefox '%s'; copiousoutput; description=HTML Text; nametemplate=%s.html

-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:
>
> Hi Torben,
>
>> Quit often I get mails where I don't see stuff included in html (I
>> guess).  What is the best settings and ways to see what people using
>> e.g. outlook includes in there mail?
>
> I use these settings for rendering html mail:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> ;; Use emacs-w3m to render html mails and display images
> (setq mm-text-html-renderer 'w3m
>       mm-inline-text-html-with-images t
>       mm-inline-large-images t)
>
> ;; Show plain text part by default, but provide buttons for the
> ;; html part
> (setq mm-discouraged-alternatives '("text/html" "text/richtext" "text/enriched")
>       gnus-buttonized-mime-types  '("multipart/signed" "multipart/alternative"))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Of course, you need w3m and emacs-w3m to use it.
>

What is the advantages of using emacs-w3m?
How does emacs-w3m compare with firefox?
Can I still click on links and se them in firefox?

-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Tassilo Horn]

Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:

Hi Torben,

> What is the advantages of using emacs-w3m?

It's inside emacs, so you don't need any window switching and all
article/summary mode bindings are available.  Indeed, the article buffer
is the same as usual but rendered nicely.

> How does emacs-w3m compare with firefox?

Firefox renders more correct, especially when the mail contains CSS or
frames.  But to reply or move to the next article you have to switch
back to the emacs frame.

> Can I still click on links and se them in firefox?

With RET it'll be opened with emacs-w3m, but I think that there's a way
to use an external browser.  (For example by advicing the function
triggered by RET and call browse-url-browser-function whin in
gnus-article-mode.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Some people  wear Linus Torvalds  pyjama's to bed, Linus  Torvalds wears
RMS pyjama's.

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Richard Riley]

Tassilo Horn <tassilo@member.fsf.org> writes:

> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:
>
> Hi Torben,
>
>> What is the advantages of using emacs-w3m?
>
> It's inside emacs, so you don't need any window switching and all
> article/summary mode bindings are available.  Indeed, the article buffer
> is the same as usual but rendered nicely.
>
>> How does emacs-w3m compare with firefox?
>
> Firefox renders more correct, especially when the mail contains CSS or
> frames.  But to reply or move to the next article you have to switch
> back to the emacs frame.
>
>> Can I still click on links and se them in firefox?
>
> With RET it'll be opened with emacs-w3m, but I think that there's a way
> to use an external browser.  (For example by advicing the function
> triggered by RET and call browse-url-browser-function whin in
> gnus-article-mode.
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo

I use this which also allows you to use hidden or rendered links in w3m
as well as text urls. Use prefix for launch in your configured external
browser (e.g C-u F4)


,----
| ; use f4 for direct URLs. C-u f4 for external default browser.
| (global-set-key (kbd "<f4>") 'rgr/browse-url)
| 
| (defun rgr/browse-url (arg &optional url)
|   (interactive "P")
|   (setq url (or url (w3m-url-valid (w3m-anchor)) (browse-url-url-at-point) (region-or-word-at-point)))
|   (if arg
|       (when url (browse-url-default-browser url))
|     (if  url (browse-url url) (call-interactively 'browse-url))
|     ))
`----

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Charles philip Chan]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 745 bytes --]

Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:

> What is the advantages of using emacs-w3m?

One reason is the same as why Claws-mail uses dillo- security, since
there is no support for Java and Java scripts. It serves as a good
preview and can be easily loaded in an external browser.

> How does emacs-w3m compare with firefox?

I like it better on plain pages since you have the full power of Emacs
at your disposal. It integrate especially well with org and planner
modes via remember.

> Can I still click on links and se them in firefox?

Yes, by pressing "M" (w3m-view-url-with-external-browser) in a w3m
buffer will either load the page in an external browser (if the cursor
is not on a link) or load the link in an external browser.

Charles



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Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Torben Knudsen]

"Charles philip Chan" <cpchan@sympatico.ca> writes:

> Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:
>
>> What is the advantages of using emacs-w3m?
>
> One reason is the same as why Claws-mail uses dillo- security, since
> there is no support for Java and Java scripts. It serves as a good
> preview and can be easily loaded in an external browser.
>
>> How does emacs-w3m compare with firefox?
>
> I like it better on plain pages since you have the full power of Emacs
> at your disposal. It integrate especially well with org and planner
> modes via remember.
>
>> Can I still click on links and se them in firefox?
>
> Yes, by pressing "M" (w3m-view-url-with-external-browser) in a w3m
> buffer will either load the page in an external browser (if the cursor
> is not on a link) or load the link in an external browser.

This is a fine solution.  I am now using emacs-w3m as suggested by
Tassilo Horn and I can use firefox when needed.  Thanks again.  I
think this should be standard in gnus. 

-- 
Associate Prof. Ph.D Torben Knudsen	Mobile	: (+45) 2787 9826
Section of Automation and Control,	Direct	: 6 8694
Department of Electronic Systems,	Email	: tk@es.aau.dk   
Aalborg University 
Fredrik Bajersvej 7 
DK-9220 Aalborg Ø
Denmark 

Re: Best way to see html stuff

[Tassilo Horn]

Torben Knudsen <tk@es.aau.dk> writes:

Hi Torben,

>>> Can I still click on links and se them in firefox?
>>
>> Yes, by pressing "M" (w3m-view-url-with-external-browser) in a w3m
>> buffer will either load the page in an external browser (if the
>> cursor is not on a link) or load the link in an external browser.
>
> This is a fine solution.  I am now using emacs-w3m as suggested by
> Tassilo Horn and I can use firefox when needed.

Indeed, I didn't know about M in w3m.  Very nice!

> Thanks again.  I think this should be standard in gnus.

The problem is that emacs-w3m and w3m are not installed everywhere.  But
looking at the code, at least with the Gnus version it'll do this:

  - if w3m is installed
    - if emacs-w3m is installed ==> use it
    - no w3m ==> use w3m standalone
  - try links
  - try lynx
  - try w3
  - try html2text
  - if everything failed, use the default browser

Seems plausible to me.

Bye,
Tassilo
-- 
Movie trivia: The movie "Invasion U.S.A." is, in fact, a documentary.