Microsoft Exchange Server

Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

  Hi.


Has anyone ever tried to work on connecting to a Microsoft Exchange
Server¹?

Evolution has a free connector-thing, so there is some kind of
information available as to how (there, anyway), I guess.

The perfect thing would be if someone had whipped up a daemon that
would talk IMAP to Gnus (and other clients) and translate to whatever
the Microsoft Exchange Server speaks transparently. Has anyone
done/started such a project?

Perhaps it would be easier to create a daemon that talks to Evolution
Data Server, which then would talk to the Microsoft Exchange Server?

It all sounds so hacky, but I'd hate to wast^Wspend time learning to
use Evolution and not using Gnus, just because I got a job - so I'm
wondering if anyone has been down this road before?

I just looked at go-evolution.org. Maybe I should try to convince the
administrators after all...


  Best regards,

    Adam

¹ I think it is possible to turn IMAP on in Microsoft Exchange Server,
  but it is unfortunately not likely that I can persuade the
  administrators to do so.

-- 
 "You know, if the sun was an oboe, what would you do?"       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Paul D. Smith]

Just so you know: Evolution Connector only works with Exchange 2000 and
newer.  Those versions of Exchange have a web-based client access
capability (that must be enabled on the server) called Outlook Web
Access (OWA).

Connector works, basically, by pretending to be an OWA client and
accessing the Exchange information, including email and calendaring
info, through the OWA interface.  It does not mimic a "real" lookOut!
client.

Ask your admins if they support OWA on your Exchange server; if they
don't you won't even be able to use Evolution.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Paul D. Smith <psmith@gnu.org>          Find some GNU make tips at:
 http://www.gnu.org                      http://make.paulandlesley.org
 "Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On 03 Feb 2006 17:40:53 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Just so you know: Evolution Connector only works with Exchange 2000 and
> newer.  Those versions of Exchange have a web-based client access
> capability (that must be enabled on the server) called Outlook Web
> Access (OWA).

> Connector works, basically, by pretending to be an OWA client and
> accessing the Exchange information, including email and calendaring
> info, through the OWA interface.  It does not mimic a "real" lookOut!
> client.

I don't care whether the thing that allows me to use Gnus is a "real"
Outlook mimic or if it pretends to be an "Outlook Web Access" client -
I just want to use Gnus.

:-)

> Ask your admins if they support OWA on your Exchange server; if they
> don't you won't even be able to use Evolution.

I'm using Evolution now.

(That is where the idea of an daemon thing in front of the Evolution
Data Server came from).


  Best regards,

-- 
 "You know, if the sun was an oboe, what would you do?"       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Sébastien Kirche]

At 23:17 on Feb 3 2006, Adam Sjøgren said :

> ¹ I think it is possible to turn IMAP on in Microsoft Exchange Server,
> but it is unfortunately not likely that I can persuade the
> administrators to do so.

Yes, Exchange has an IMAP module. I use it to consult my mailbox at
work. I have the chance that the administrator must have turn it on by
mistake :)

Alas, it is buggy (what a surprise !) and it lacks on transmitting
correctly messages in html. They are converted in plain text and you
lost the text properties (bold, color, alignment, etc). You loose also
some exchange-ism features like the messages linked to agenda events and
meetings (you still have the message, with a cryptic mention with a
date+timezone on the top of the text).

Also I did not find a manner to setup server rules with the IMAP
connectivity. I just seen that you can get you contacts list in one of
the mailbox folders, in the form of a message per contact.

The limitations I am talking are not due to Gnus, but to the IMAP
Exchange module, as I have the same with MacOS X Mail.app.
-- 
Sébastien Kirche

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 09:56:09 +0100, Sébastien wrote:

[... limitations of Microsoft Exchange Server IMAP implementation ...]

> The limitations I am talking are not due to Gnus, but to the IMAP
> Exchange module, as I have the same with MacOS X Mail.app.

Thanks for the information - it sounds like even if I could get IMAP
turned on, that wouldn't be perfect. Sigh.


  Thanks!

    Adam

-- 
 "You know, if the sun was an oboe, what would you do?"       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Sébastien Kirche]

At 12:08 on Feb 4 2006, Adam Sjøgren said :

> Thanks for the information - it sounds like even if I could get IMAP
> turned on, that wouldn't be perfect. Sigh.

Well, don't forget that we are talking about some M$ software. Too bad
for standards compliance... :o/

-- 
Sébastien Kirche

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 12:35:29 +0100, Sébastien wrote:

> At 12:08 on Feb 4 2006, Adam Sjøgren said :
>> Thanks for the information - it sounds like even if I could get IMAP
>> turned on, that wouldn't be perfect. Sigh.

> Well, don't forget that we are talking about some M$ software. Too bad
> for standards compliance... :o/

Yeah, I know (or rather: I heard, I've only ever used Windows for 6
months [while there was no driver for the ATM-card for my
ADSL-connection], that's it).

But I'm not so sure that I can revolutionize this infrastructure, so I
have to find work-arounds...


  *sigh*,

    Adam

-- 
 "You know, if the sun was an oboe, what would you do?"       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Andrew Raines]

Adam Sjøgren wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 09:56:09 +0100, Sébastien wrote:
>
> [... limitations of Microsoft Exchange Server IMAP implementation ...]
>
>> The limitations I am talking are not due to Gnus, but
>> to the IMAP Exchange module, as I have the same with
>> MacOS X Mail.app.
>
> Thanks for the information - it sounds like even if I
> could get IMAP turned on, that wouldn't be
> perfect. Sigh.

I use nnimap with our Exchange system, and it's tolerable.
It's certainly better than using Outlook.  And while
MS-IMAP isn't ideal, it seems to be sufficient for normal
splitting, reading, and expiry.  I throw in the agent and
read offline for speed.

I wouldn't interpret Sébastien's comments as ``Using
Exchange with IMAP will cause you more trouble than it's
worth.''  If you can get the admin to turn it on, I say go
for it.

-Drew

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:28:50 -0600, Andrew wrote:

> I use nnimap with our Exchange system, and it's tolerable.
> It's certainly better than using Outlook.  And while
> MS-IMAP isn't ideal, it seems to be sufficient for normal
> splitting, reading, and expiry.  I throw in the agent and
> read offline for speed.

> I wouldn't interpret Sébastien's comments as ``Using
> Exchange with IMAP will cause you more trouble than it's
> worth.''  If you can get the admin to turn it on, I say go
> for it.

Okay, I'm not sure yet how much HTML-email I will be getting (that was
the part of Sébastiens email that discouraged me) - so I'll give it a
shot. Perhaps they wont mind.

(Or I'll have to try making an IMAP<->OWA thing, although I would
guess that would be too much work...)


  Thanks for the comments,

      Adam

-- 
 "You know, if the sun was an oboe, what would you do?"       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Sébastien Kirche]

At 03:08 on Feb 5 2006, Adam Sjøgren said :

> On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 17:28:50 -0600, Andrew wrote:
> 
> > I use nnimap with our Exchange system, and it's tolerable.
> > It's certainly better than using Outlook.  And while
> > MS-IMAP isn't ideal, it seems to be sufficient for normal
> > splitting, reading, and expiry.  I throw in the agent and
> > read offline for speed.
> 
> > I wouldn't interpret Sébastien's comments as ``Using
> > Exchange with IMAP will cause you more trouble than it's
> > worth.''  If you can get the admin to turn it on, I say go
> > for it.

Indeed. At least it is bare functional, even if that brain dead piece of
MS code cannot translate correctly every enriched mail.

You will at least be able to read and post. I suppose that MS though that
the rest of the exchange features are not deserving to spent time to
adapt in IMAP or more probably that people who need them will just have
to use outlook ?

> Okay, I'm not sure yet how much HTML-email I will be getting (that was
> the part of Sébastiens email that discouraged me) - so I'll give it a
> shot. Perhaps they wont mind.

Now i am thinking about I am not sure that *every* html mail is broken as
I receive sometime some spam that looks "normal" (as usual html spam).

I think that most of my broken messages are local messages generated by
co-workers with outlook and locally stored in the Exchange server.
Probably in an internal proprietary MS format that is not well
translated by the IMAP module (I remember of a problem with some
messages and application/ms-tnef mime attachments). 

> (Or I'll have to try making an IMAP<->OWA thing, although I would
> guess that would be too much work...)

>From the administrator point of view it should only be a checkbox to
activate on the server configuration.

-- 
Sébastien Kirche

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 05:10:32 +0100, Sébastien wrote:

> At 03:08 on Feb 5 2006, Adam Sjøgren said :

>> Okay, I'm not sure yet how much HTML-email I will be getting (that was
>> the part of Sébastiens email that discouraged me) - so I'll give it a
>> shot. Perhaps they wont mind.

> Now i am thinking about I am not sure that *every* html mail is broken as
> I receive sometime some spam that looks "normal" (as usual html spam).

Ah, okay.

> I think that most of my broken messages are local messages generated by
> co-workers with outlook and locally stored in the Exchange server.
> Probably in an internal proprietary MS format that is not well
> translated by the IMAP module (I remember of a problem with some
> messages and application/ms-tnef mime attachments). 

Most of my work-email will probably be from coworkers using Outlook. 
So far I haven't got anything fancier than attachments, so perhaps it
could work.

>> (Or I'll have to try making an IMAP<->OWA thing, although I would
>> guess that would be too much work...)

> From the administrator point of view it should only be a checkbox to
> activate on the server configuration.

Yeah, but one thing is how easy it is to do, another is persuading
them that it is a good idea to check the box (my new username isn't
'asjo' despite asking for it, for instance. I'm going to mistype the
new username a billion times as 'asjo' has been my username everywhere
for the past 13 years...)

In all fairness I should mention though that I haven't asked them yet,
so I should give the benefit of doubt ;-)


  Thanks for the input!

      Adam

-- 
 "You know, if the sun was an oboe, what would you do?"       Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Sébastien Kirche]

At 13:18 on Feb 5 2006, Adam Sjøgren said :

> Most of my work-email will probably be from coworkers using Outlook. 
> So far I haven't got anything fancier than attachments, so perhaps it
> could work.

It also depends on the version of the Exchange server. IIRC we don't
have the most up-to-date version (but a 5.xx ?). I could confirm its
version number in the case you need more details.
-- 
Sébastien Kirche

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 13:18:52 +0100, Adam wrote:

[Turning on IMAP-support]

> In all fairness I should mention though that I haven't asked them yet,
> so I should give the benefit of doubt ;-)

The answer was that IMAP-support isn't turned on at it never will
be...

Anyone feel like writing an IMAP-MSOWAd by looking at Evolution? :-)


  *sigh*,

-- 
 "Until you stalk and overrun,                                Adam Sjøgren
  You can't devour anyone."                              asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 21:24:35 +0100, Adam wrote:

> Anyone feel like writing an IMAP-MSOWAd by looking at Evolution? :-)

Quick follow up on this: It turns out that Evolution has filters. And
for a filter, you can use the return value of a program that is fed
the email on stdin.

So, I have set up a filter in Evolution that filters my email through
"/usr/bin/procmail -d mylogin", and I've configured Gnus to get email
from /var/mail/mylogin.

This means that I have to run Evolution to get the email, but I don't
have to use it (and I don't have to re-implement their Exchange
connector thing, which looks like quite the nightmarish job) :-)

I've been using this for a week now, and it works well. There are some
details with names, parentheses and such in From, To and such, but
that is easy to handle in Gnus (obviusly).

Yehaw!


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "You have to photosynthesize"                                Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Sébastien Kirche]

At 20:30 on Feb 20 2006, Adam Sjøgren said :

> This means that I have to run Evolution to get the email, but I don't
> have to use it (and I don't have to re-implement their Exchange
> connector thing, which looks like quite the nightmarish job) :-)
> 
> I've been using this for a week now, and it works well.

I am just coming back here after few weeks off, and it is a nice
conclusion to your problem (that might become mine too in a few).

Thank you and congratulations for the experiment ;)
-- 
Sébastien Kirche

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:52:28 +0100, Sébastien wrote:

>> I've been using this for a week now, and it works well.

> I am just coming back here after few weeks off, and it is a nice
> conclusion to your problem (that might become mine too in a few).

Once in a blue moon one email gets mangled and put into the bottom of
another - I don't know what program is at fault, is as it doesn't
happen often enough for me to invest time in trying to figure it out,
but it is slightly annoying when it happens...

> Thank you and congratulations for the experiment ;)

Thanks, and you're welcome :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "You have to photosynthesize"                                Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Microsoft Exchange Server

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:35:28 +0100, Adam wrote:

[... fetching email from Exchange with Evolution, using an external
filter to have the emails put through procmail so they are delivered
locally, and then fetched from the local mail-spool by Gnus ...]

> Once in a blue moon one email gets mangled and put into the bottom of
> another - I don't know what program is at fault, is as it doesn't
> happen often enough for me to invest time in trying to figure it out,
> but it is slightly annoying when it happens...

I guess it was some kind of locking problem - on a hunch I started
using the local delivery agent "deliver" instead of procmail in the
filter-rule, and that fixed the mangling problem.


  Just a very, very late followup,

        Adam

-- 
 "Lef ma nine imma Jeep"                                      Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk