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* How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
@ 2022-04-12 11:53 Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-12 12:18 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-12 11:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Hello:

I know how to subsribe to a mailing list on a known server, like this
list gmane.emacs.gnus.user.  Now I am wondering how do I know the
server to connect to?

In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following mailing list
<https://lists.sr.ht/~protesilaos/modus-themes>.  But I don't know how
to do so in Gnus.

Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?

-- 
Durand



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-12 11:53 How to subsribe to a general mailing list? Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-12 12:18 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2022-04-13  2:43   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-13  2:42 ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-13  2:50 ` Jai Vetrivelan
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Byung-Hee HWANG @ 2022-04-12 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Dear Durand,

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet
newsreader (in English)" <info-gnus-english@gnu.org> writes:

> Hello:
>
> I know how to subsribe to a mailing list on a known server, like this
> list gmane.emacs.gnus.user.  Now I am wondering how do I know the
> server to connect to?
>
> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following mailing list
> <https://lists.sr.ht/~protesilaos/modus-themes>.  But I don't know how
> to do so in Gnus.
>
> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?

Just general way. Check here: <https://lists.gnu.org/>

It is easy ^^^

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _地平天成_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-12 11:53 How to subsribe to a general mailing list? Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-12 12:18 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
@ 2022-04-13  2:42 ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-13  2:50 ` Jai Vetrivelan
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-13  2:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand wrote:

> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following
> mailing list
> <https://lists.sr.ht/~protesilaos/modus-themes>. But I don't
> know how to do so in Gnus.

That list isn't added to Gmane but you can do that easily:

  https://gmane.io/

Then enter the Server buffer, enter the Gmane server, and
subscribe to the ML there.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-12 12:18 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
@ 2022-04-13  2:43   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-13 22:45     ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-13  2:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

>> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following
>> mailing list
>> <https://lists.sr.ht/~protesilaos/modus-themes>.
>> But I don't know how to do so in Gnus.
>>
>> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?
>
> Just general way. Check here: <https://lists.gnu.org/>

If it has something to do with GNU it should definitely be
added to Gmane ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-12 11:53 How to subsribe to a general mailing list? Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-12 12:18 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2022-04-13  2:42 ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-13  2:50 ` Jai Vetrivelan
  2022-04-13  7:33   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Jai Vetrivelan @ 2022-04-13  2:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Announcements and discussions for GNUS,
	the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  Cc: Durand

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 626 bytes --]

On 2022-04-12, 19:53 +0800, Durand <info-gnus-english@gnu.org> wrote:

> Hello:
>
> I know how to subsribe to a mailing list on a known server, like this
> list gmane.emacs.gnus.user.  Now I am wondering how do I know the
> server to connect to?
>
> In particular, I am trying to subscribe to the following mailing list
> <https://lists.sr.ht/~protesilaos/modus-themes>.  But I don't know how
> to do so in Gnus.
>
> Did I miss something or do you have any suggestions?

You can request gmane to add the mailing list to archives, if it is not
present already.

https://admin.gmane.io/

-- 
Jai Vetrivelan

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 865 bytes --]

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-13  2:50 ` Jai Vetrivelan
@ 2022-04-13  7:33   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-13  7:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Jai Vetrivelan wrote:

> You can request gmane to add the mailing list to archives,
> if it is not present already.
>
> https://admin.gmane.io/

It isn't.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-13  2:43   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-13 22:45     ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 11:21       ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 13:22       ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-13 22:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Thanks for all your help!  I appreciate your suggestions sincerely.

But I am not really satisfied by the proposed approach, as I think
that does not grant the users as much freedom as I would expect.

I might sound too demanding and never-satisfied.  I guess I am spoiled
by the freedom I feel in the world of Emacs.

So I am wondering if the following two alternate ideas are practical.
I would be glad to know what you think of them, whether they are
practical or not.

- Is it possible to set up an nntp server on my own virtual personal
  server, and let Gnus talk to that nntp server?  I presume this is
  possible, but I have no experiences in this field.

- Is it possible to download the mailing list directly, as an mbox
  file or any other format that the mailing list provides, and use an
  ephemeral group to view the mailing list?  This is just an
  imagination, and I don't really know what I am talking about.  :P

Best regards,
-- 
Durand



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-13 22:45     ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-14 11:21       ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 13:10         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 13:22       ` Adam Sjøgren
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-14 11:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)" wrote:

> Thanks for all your help! I appreciate your
> suggestions sincerely.
>
> But I am not really satisfied by the proposed approach, as
> I think that does not grant the users as much freedom as
> I would expect.
>
> I might sound too demanding and never-satisfied. I guess
> I am spoiled by the freedom I feel in the world of Emacs.

What problem are you trying to solve?

Using Gnus and Gmane does not involve any breach of Emacs
world freedom what I can see?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-14 11:21       ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-14 13:10         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 13:24           ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-14 13:55           ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-14 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

I shall have made it clear, sorry for the ambiguous wording.

What I mean is that I cannot decide which mailing list to view in
Gnus, and I have to request for a mailing list to be added.  Moreover,
what if I want to view some mailing list that is not related to GNU?
From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server are supposed
to be related to "GNU things"?

[ Maybe that is why GNUS is named as GNU thingS?  I am kidding. ]

Of course I am not saying that gmane should allow people to add
arbitrary mailing lists to the server; that makes no sense.  I am just
looking for some way to control what I can view in Gnus.

-- 
Durand



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-13 22:45     ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 11:21       ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-14 13:22       ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-16  7:08         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2022-04-14 13:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand writes:

> - Is it possible to set up an nntp server on my own virtual personal
>   server, and let Gnus talk to that nntp server?  I presume this is
>   possible, but I have no experiences in this field.

Certainly. That won't make mailing lists appear on your own nntp server,
though, so that's an extra task to set up/figure out.

> - Is it possible to download the mailing list directly, as an mbox
>   file or any other format that the mailing list provides, and use an
>   ephemeral group to view the mailing list?

Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse it in Gnus e.g. by using G f
in the *Group* buffer:

,----
| G f runs the command gnus-group-make-doc-group (found in
| gnus-group-mode-map), which is an interactive native compiled Lisp
| function in ‘gnus-group.el’.
| 
| It is bound to G f.
| It can also be invoked from the menu: <menu-bar> <groups> <Foreign
| groups> <Make a doc group...>.
| 
| (gnus-group-make-doc-group FILE TYPE)
| 
| Create a group that uses a single file as the source.
| 
| If called with a prefix argument, ask for the file type.
`----

The traditional way of reading a mailing list is subscribing to it -
then you receive a copy of every email somebody sends to the mailing
list. Emails that can be read in Gnus. Subscribing is usually as easy as
sending an email to a special address, though sometimes you have to go
through a web form. This depends on the mailing list.

Gmane is a system that subscribes to mailing lists and exposes them via
nntp. This can be very convenient, but if the mailing lists you are
interested in aren't already on Gmane, you'll have to deal with getting
them added via the web interface.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "LUFTVAFFEL!"                                              Adam Sjøgren
                                                       asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-14 13:10         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-14 13:24           ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-14 13:49             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 13:55           ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2022-04-14 13:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand via writes:

> From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server are supposed
> to be related to "GNU things"?

Where have you heard that? Gmane has all kinds of lists - as long as the
owner of the list doesn't mind, any mailing list can be added.

> Of course I am not saying that gmane should allow people to add
> arbitrary mailing lists to the server; that makes no sense.

That is literally what Gmane does.

> I am just looking for some way to control what I can view in Gnus.

How are you not in control of that?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Our voodoo-dolls are full of hopes"                       Adam Sjøgren
                                                       asjo@koldfront.dk



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-14 13:24           ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2022-04-14 13:49             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-14 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Adam Sjøgren wrote:

>> From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server
>> are supposed to be related to "GNU things"?
>
> Where have you heard that?

Haha :)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-14 13:10         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-14 13:24           ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2022-04-14 13:55           ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-14 13:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)" wrote:

> [ Maybe that is why GNUS is named as GNU thingS? I am
>   kidding. ]

Indeed, since it isn't even "GNUS" anymore but Gnus which
I believe to be a recursive acronym meaning "Gnus Network User
Services".


-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-14 13:22       ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2022-04-16  7:08         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-16 11:19           ` Adam Sjøgren
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-16  7:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

>>>>> Le Jeu, 14 avr 2022 15:22:05 +0200, Adam Sjøgren
>>>>> <asjo@koldfront.dk> a dit:

    Durand> - Is it possible to set up an nntp server on my own
    Durand> virtual personal server, and let Gnus talk to that nntp
    Durand> server?  I presume this is possible, but I have no
    Durand> experiences in this field.

    Adam> Certainly.  That won't make mailing lists appear on your own
    Adam> nntp server, though, so that's an extra task to set
    Adam> up/figure out.
    
Thanks for the confirmation.  I know it will contain subtleties:
setting up an email server contains a lot of subtleties as well.

    Durand> - Is it possible to download the mailing list directly, as
    Durand> an mbox file or any other format that the mailing list
    Durand> provides, and use an ephemeral group to view the mailing
    Durand> list?

    Adam> Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse it in Gnus
    Adam> e.g.  by using G f in the *Group* buffer:
    
Thanks for the information.  That is exactly what I want!

Also thanks for letting me know how to quote the documention string
inside a mail.  It looks clean and beautiful.  :)

    Adam> [ 14 lines elided ... ]

    Adam> The traditional way of reading a mailing list is subscribing
    Adam> to it - then you receive a copy of every email somebody
    Adam> sends to the mailing list.  Emails that can be read in Gnus.
    Adam> Subscribing is usually as easy as sending an email to a
    Adam> special address, though sometimes you have to go through a
    Adam> web form.  This depends on the mailing list.

I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the mailing list
in my mail inbox.  Per chance I don't want to subscribe to the mailing
list in the future.  If I subscribe to the list, then the only way
(that I know) to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete
them.  But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed mailing list again
in the future?  Re-subscribing to the list won't send me the old mails
again.  So I need some way to read the entire mailing list.

    Adam> Gmane is a system that subscribes to mailing lists and
    Adam> exposes them via nntp.  This can be very convenient, but if
    Adam> the mailing lists you are interested in aren't already on
    Adam> Gmane, you'll have to deal with getting them added via the
    Adam> web interface.

Thanks for the information.

>>>>> Le Jeu, 14 avr 2022 21:24:33 +0800, Adam Sjøgren
>>>>> <asjo@koldfront.dk> a dit:

    Durand> From what I heard, the mailing lists on the gmane server
    Durand> are supposed to be related to "GNU things"?

    Adam> Where have you heard that?  Gmane has all kinds of lists -
    Adam> as long as the owner of the list doesn't mind, any mailing
    Adam> list can be added.

Sorry for the uninformed saying.

    Durand> Of course I am not saying that gmane should allow people
    Durand> to add arbitrary mailing lists to the server; that makes
    Durand> no sense.

    Adam> That is literally what Gmane does.

I see.

    Durand> I am just looking for some way to control what I can view
    Durand> in Gnus.

    Adam> How are you not in control of that?

I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the contents on
the server.  For example, I have to request to add some mailing lists
to the server.  How am I in control of that?  What if I want to
subscribe to some mailing list that I don't wish others to know that I
want to subscribe to?

Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the mailing list,
could I remove the list from the gmane server?

By the way, I am kind of in doubt of how gmane works.  I mean: why can
users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?  I think the server
only has a limited amout of spaces, so that the user can only add a
limited amount of mailing lists to the server?  Or does gmane know
some alchemical magic to handle an unlimited amount of subscriptions
to mailing lists?

>>>>> Le Jeu, 14 avr 2022 21:55:56 +0800, Emanuel Berg via
>>>>> "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet
>>>>> newsreader (in English)" <info-gnus-english@gnu.org> a dit:

    Emanuel> Indeed, since it isn't even "GNUS" anymore but Gnus which
    Emanuel> I believe to be a recursive acronym meaning "Gnus Network
    Emanuel> User Services".

Thanks for the information.  :)

-- 
Durand



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-16  7:08         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-16 11:19           ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-16 11:41             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
                               ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2022-04-16 11:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand writes:

>     Adam> Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse it in Gnus
>     Adam> e.g.  by using G f in the *Group* buffer:
>     
> Thanks for the information.  That is exactly what I want!

Great!

[Traditional subscription to a mailing list]

> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the mailing list
> in my mail inbox.

What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for a mailing list
into a separate "group" (folder).

> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I know) to remove
> the mails from my mail inbox is to delete them. But, what if I want to
> read the unsubscribed mailing list again in the future? Re-subscribing
> to the list won't send me the old mails again. So I need some way to
> read the entire mailing list.

That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps being
subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you - or anybody else
- is reading it, so it has all the emails back to when the group was
created in Gmane.

[Being in control]

> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the contents on
> the server.  For example, I have to request to add some mailing lists
> to the server.  How am I in control of that?  What if I want to
> subscribe to some mailing list that I don't wish others to know that I
> want to subscribe to?

Ah yes, in those cases using a public service is out of the question.
But then you have the problems you mentioned above instead :-)

> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the mailing list,
> could I remove the list from the gmane server?

No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but somebody else
might be reading the mailing list via Gmane - if you could remove it,
you'd annoy anybody else who subscribed to the group in the meantime.

> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?

To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this myself, so I
built it. Maybe others would like to use it as well, feel free to do
so"-project. Although I don't know what Lars' motivations were/are.

As long as it isn't abused, it's a nice service and a neat solution to a
problem shared by a bunch of people.

> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so that the
> user can only add a limited amount of mailing lists to the server?

There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on the internet.

And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by people. People can
only type so much.

Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an unlimited amount
> of subscriptions to mailing lists?

Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists, and there
aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that people are interested
in reading through Gmane.

So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need for
capacity.

I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the beginning of
Gmane (20 years ago!) than now :-)


This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related, it might make
sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on news.gmane.io? :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "This piece is about the inadequacy of traditional         Adam Sjøgren
  imagey and symbols to convey meaning in today's      asjo@koldfront.dk
  world."



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-16 11:19           ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2022-04-16 11:41             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17  5:16             ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17  8:02             ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-16 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Adam Sjøgren wrote:

>> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the
>> mailing list in my mail inbox.
>
> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for
> a mailing list into a separate "group" (folder).

But that is a poor-man's solution, it will have to be setup
manually, and retrieval will be non-selective. Gnus can do
much better than than with Gmane which is the specific tool to
solve this exact situation; also, it comes with a bunch of
other advantages.

Remember, Gnus is to Emacs users what Emacs is to computer
users ...

>> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I know)
>> to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete them.
>> But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed mailing list
>> again in the future? Re-subscribing to the list won't send
>> me the old mails again. So I need some way to read the
>> entire mailing list.
>
> That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps
> being subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you
> - or anybody else - is reading it, so it has all the emails
> back to when the group was created in Gmane.

It is much better, not the least/especially in terms of
the interface.

>> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the
>> contents on the server. For example, I have to request to
>> add some mailing lists to the server. How am I in control
>> of that? What if I want to subscribe to some mailing list
>> that I don't wish others to know that I want to
>> subscribe to?
>
> Ah yes, in those cases using a public service is out of
> the question.

You mean the admin of Gmane?

Because everyone else don't know. Or if they do, please tell
me what 16 MLs/newsgroups and 1 blog I currently subscribe to
thru Gmane/Gwene and the news.gmane.io server?

But this objection is silly to begin with ...

>> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the mailing
>> list, could I remove the list from the gmane server?
>
> No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but
> somebody else might be reading the mailing list via Gmane -
> if you could remove it, you'd annoy anybody else who
> subscribed to the group in the meantime.

Right - on the contrary, with Gnus and Gmane, killing or
unsubscribing to a group is one keystroke away. But better
yet, it isn't needed even since if you don't visit the groups,
nothing happens. This is what I mentioned above, altho from
the other side of it, with Gmane, retrieval is selective.

>> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?
>
> To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this
> myself, so I built it. Maybe others would like to use it as
> well, feel free to do so"-project. Although I don't know
> what Lars' motivations were/are.

It is to simplify/speed up the process. Either people don't
abuse it, or if they do to some very small extent, there are
automatic or manual checks to correct it. It is a tool for
Emacs Gnus users. Compare "there are [were?] no viruses for
Linux".

>> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so
>> that the user can only add a limited amount of mailing
>> lists to the server?
>
> There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on
> the internet.
>
> And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by
> people. People can only type so much.
>
> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days?
> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

Ha! Dear OP, just try it before you make up objections.
To quote the barrel racer, just try - and you will fly!

>> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an
>> unlimited amount of subscriptions to mailing lists?
>
> Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists,
> and there aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that
> people are interested in reading through Gmane.
>
> So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need
> for capacity.
>
> I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the
> beginning of Gmane (20 years ago!) than now :-)
>
> This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related,
> it might make sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on
> news.gmane.io? :-)

The problem isn't your answers but the OP - or should I call
him the PO? - 's inside-out attitude. Trust us, if you are
a Gnus user, Gmane is what you are looking for. It is there
especially for your use-case. Just do us all a favor and try
it instead of making up made-up objections.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-16 11:19           ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-16 11:41             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-17  5:16             ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17  7:47               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17  9:49               ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-17  8:02             ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-17  5:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

>>>>> Le Sam, 16 avr 2022 13:19:47 +0200, Adam Sjøgren
>>>>> <asjo@koldfront.dk> a dit:

    Adam> Durand writes: Yes, if you have an mbox file, you can browse
    Adam> it in Gnus e.g.  by using G f in the *Group* buffer:

    Durand> Thanks for the information.  That is exactly what I want!

    Adam> Great!

    Adam> [Traditional subscription to a mailing list]

    Durand> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the
    Durand> mailing list in my mail inbox.

    Adam> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for a
    Adam> mailing list into a separate "group" (folder).

I have tried to play with splitting mails using some simple sieve
scripts.  It is indeed fun.  :)

    Durand> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I
    Durand> know) to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete
    Durand> them.  But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed
    Durand> mailing list again in the future?  Re-subscribing to the
    Durand> list won't send me the old mails again.  So I need some
    Durand> way to read the entire mailing list.

    Adam> That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps
    Adam> being subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you
    Adam> - or anybody else - is reading it, so it has all the emails
    Adam> back to when the group was created in Gmane.

Agreed.

    Adam> [Being in control]

    Durand> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the
    Durand> contents on the server.  For example, I have to request to
    Durand> add some mailing lists to the server.  How am I in control
    Durand> of that?  What if I want to subscribe to some mailing list
    Durand> that I don't wish others to know that I want to subscribe
    Durand> to?

    Adam> Ah yes, in those cases using a public service is out of the
    Adam> question.  But then you have the problems you mentioned
    Adam> above instead :-)

Indeed.  That is just some hypothetical (and silly) question.  The
purpose of mentionning it is to show that I am not in control of the
process, though it is not a very practical issue.

    Durand> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the
    Durand> mailing list, could I remove the list from the gmane
    Durand> server?

    Adam> No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but
    Adam> somebody else might be reading the mailing list via Gmane -
    Adam> if you could remove it, you'd annoy anybody else who
    Adam> subscribed to the group in the meantime.

Indeed.  That is why I think I am not in control: I cannot reverse
some actions initiated by me.

    Durand> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?

    Adam> To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this
    Adam> myself, so I built it.  Maybe others would like to use it as
    Adam> well, feel free to do so"-project.  Although I don't know
    Adam> what Lars' motivations were/are.

    Adam> As long as it isn't abused, it's a nice service and a neat
    Adam> solution to a problem shared by a bunch of people.

I see.

    Durand> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so
    Durand> that the user can only add a limited amount of mailing
    Durand> lists to the server?

    Adam> There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on the
    Adam> internet.

    Adam> And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by
    Adam> people.  People can only type so much.

    Adam> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days?
    Adam> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

I understand this is not a practical issue now.  I was imagining that
this is easily abused, e.g. some user can make up a plethora of
mailing lists, and then blow the gmane server up by subscribing to a
new list every 10 seconds, say.

[ I am not sure if my concerns are valid.  I should add a disclaimer
  that I am a Mathematics student, and I tend to consider extreme
  cases before taking practical issues into consideration.  Sorry if
  my mail caused any trouble. ]

    Durand> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an
    Durand> unlimited amount of subscriptions to mailing lists?

    Adam> Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists,
    Adam> and there aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that
    Adam> people are interested in reading through Gmane.

    Adam> So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need
    Adam> for capacity.

    Adam> I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the
    Adam> beginning of Gmane (20 years ago!)  than now :-)

Thanks again for the reply.

    Adam> This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related,
    Adam> it might make sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on
    Adam> news.gmane.io?  :-)

I think my question is already answered by your mention of
`gnus-group-make-doc-group', so there is currently no need to discuss
further.  Or per chance you want to discuss something?

>>>>> Le Sam, 16 avr 2022 19:41:31 +0800, Emanuel Berg via
>>>>> "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet
>>>>> newsreader (in English)" <info-gnus-english@gnu.org> a dit:

    Emanuel> Adam Sjøgren wrote:

    Durand> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the
    Durand> mailing list in my mail inbox.

    Adam> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for a
    Adam> mailing list into a separate "group" (folder).

    Emanuel> But that is a poor-man's solution, it will have to be
    Emanuel> setup manually, and retrieval will be non-selective.
    Emanuel> Gnus can do much better than than with Gmane which is the
    Emanuel> specific tool to solve this exact situation; also, it
    Emanuel> comes with a bunch of other advantages.

    Emanuel> Remember, Gnus is to Emacs users what Emacs is to
    Emanuel> computer users ...

I agree.  I enjoy using Gnus a lot.  That is why I am searching for
some way to view mailing lists in Gnus that makes me feel better.  :)

    Durand> If I subscribe to the list, then the only way (that I
    Durand> know) to remove the mails from my mail inbox is to delete
    Durand> them.  But, what if I want to read the unsubscribed
    Durand> mailing list again in the future?  Re-subscribing to the
    Durand> list won't send me the old mails again.  So I need some
    Durand> way to read the entire mailing list.

    Adam> That's the situation where Gmane is handy - as it is keeps
    Adam> being subscribed to a mailing list regardless of whether you
    Adam> - or anybody else - is reading it, so it has all the emails
    Adam> back to when the group was created in Gmane.

    Emanuel> It is much better, not the least/especially in terms of
    Emanuel> the interface.

Sure.

    Durand> I mean I do not have the ability to freely manipulate the
    Durand> contents on the server.  For example, I have to request to
    Durand> add some mailing lists to the server.  How am I in control
    Durand> of that?  What if I want to subscribe to some mailing list
    Durand> that I don't wish others to know that I want to subscribe
    Durand> to?

    Adam> [ one sentence elided ... ]

    Emanuel> You mean the admin of Gmane?

    Emanuel> Because everyone else don't know.  Or if they do, please
    Emanuel> tell me what 16 MLs/newsgroups and 1 blog I currently
    Emanuel> subscribe to thru Gmane/Gwene and the news.gmane.io
    Emanuel> server?

    Emanuel> But this objection is silly to begin with ...

Indeed this is a silly question.  As I said in the above reply to
Adam, my previous question had already been answered.  I was just
trying to express that I am not in total control of the process,
though the issue proposed is just theoretical instead of practical.

[ And indeed the administrators of gmane would know my subscriptions
  to the mailing lists.  What if I want to subscribe to some secret
  mailing list that discusses the proof of Riemann hypothesis (amonst
  my friends, say), and since the administrators of gmane knew I
  subscribed to the list, they started following that list, and
  eventually stole my proof?

  In case it is not obvious, this is a joke.  You don't have to tell
  me this is silly and not funny.  I already know it. ]

    Durand> Moreover, if I later don't want to subscribe to the
    Durand> mailing list, could I remove the list from the gmane
    Durand> server?

    Adam> No - you can unsubscribe (and forget about the group), but
    Adam> somebody else might be reading the mailing list via Gmane -
    Adam> if you could remove it, you'd annoy anybody else who
    Adam> subscribed to the group in the meantime.

    Emanuel> Right - on the contrary, with Gnus and Gmane, killing or
    Emanuel> unsubscribing to a group is one keystroke away.  But
    Emanuel> better yet, it isn't needed even since if you don't visit
    Emanuel> the groups, nothing happens.  This is what I mentioned
    Emanuel> above, altho from the other side of it, with Gmane,
    Emanuel> retrieval is selective.

Thanks.  I already know this.  I mentionned removing mails as I was
thinking about the reversibility of my actions: I could add some
mailing list to the server, but I could not reverse this action.  This
makes me feel asymmetrical.  ;p

It also has to do with my space concerns: I cannot remove mailing
lists if I add too many lists to the server.

    Durand> why can users add arbitrary mailing lists to the server?

    Adam> To me it feels very much like a "I would like to use this
    Adam> myself, so I built it.  Maybe others would like to use it as
    Adam> well, feel free to do so"-project.  Although I don't know
    Adam> what Lars' motivations were/are.

    Emanuel> It is to simplify/speed up the process.  Either people
    Emanuel> don't abuse it, or if they do to some very small extent,
    Emanuel> there are automatic or manual checks to correct it.  It
    Emanuel> is a tool for Emacs Gnus users.  Compare "there are
    Emanuel> [were?] no viruses for Linux".

Thanks for the explanation.  I am exactly concerned about that micro
possibility of people abusing the service.

    Durand> I think the server only has a limited amout of spaces, so
    Durand> that the user can only add a limited amount of mailing
    Durand> lists to the server?

    Adam> There are only a limited amount of mailing lists on
    Adam> the internet.

    Adam> And the emails on those lists are (mainly) written by
    Adam> people.  People can only type so much.
    Adam>
    Adam> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days?
    Adam> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

    Emanuel> Ha!  Dear OP, just try it before you make up objections.
    Emanuel> To quote the barrel racer, just try - and you will fly!

I don't know exactly what I shall try: I am already using Gnus, and
gmane.  And my need was already satisfied by the function
`gnus-group-make-doc-group'.  Sorry if I was not clear about this
point.

    Durand> Or does gmane know some alchemical magic to handle an
    Durand> unlimited amount of subscriptions to mailing lists?

    Adam> Luckily there aren't an unlimited supply of mailing lists,
    Adam> and there aren't an unlimited number of mailing lists that
    Adam> people are interested in reading through Gmane.
    Adam>
    Adam> So although resources aren't unlimited, neither is the need
    Adam> for capacity.
    Adam>
    Adam> I would guess that storage was much more a problem in the
    Adam> beginning of Gmane (20 years ago!)  than now :-)
    Adam>
    Adam> This discussion has become only tangentially Gnus related,
    Adam> it might make sense to switch to the gmane.discuss group on
    Adam> news.gmane.io?  :-)

    Emanuel> The problem isn't your answers but the OP - or should I call
    Emanuel> him the PO?  - 's inside-out attitude.  Trust us, if you are
    Emanuel> a Gnus user, Gmane is what you are looking for.  It is there
    Emanuel> especially for your use-case.  Just do us all a favor and try
    Emanuel> it instead of making up made-up objections.

I am already using gmane to view this mailing list.  I don't know what
I shall try.  Maybe you mean to add some mailing list to gmane server?
Well, I prefer downloading the mailing list and viewing it using
`gnus-group-make-doc-group' for now.

Also, I am not making objections to gmane.  I was just confused about
the working of gmane.  I never said I won't use gmane because of the
concerns.  I just asked some questions that I could not figure out.

Sorry if my theoretical, hypothetical and inpractical questions, and /
or my ambiguous phrasing, disturbed you.

-- 
Durand



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-17  5:16             ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-17  7:47               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17  9:49               ` Adam Sjøgren
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-17  7:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand via "Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)" wrote:

>>> I hesitate to do this because I don't want to store the
>>> mailing list in my mail inbox.
>>
>> What people usually do is to "split" (filter) email for
>> a mailing list into a separate "group" (folder).
>
> I have tried to play with splitting mails using some simple
> sieve scripts. It is indeed fun. :)

I don't understand why technologist Sjøgren tells you this but
it isn't because he thinks it is a good idea. And using
makeshift scripts is an even worse idea.

As for what is fun ... I think Gnus and Gmane are the most fun
parts of Emacs except programming, but one can't be on top of
one's game 24/7 (and one doesn't want that, either). And Emacs
is the most fun program in the Unix world. And Unix is the
most fun OS and also the most versatile and the fastest that
can run on a computer. And a computer is the most fun you can
have using the world's best software running on a machine one
can acquire practically speaking zero bucks with a bit of
ingenuity. So yes - to me it's fun enough!

Scripts are also fun tho :)


> Indeed. That is just some hypothetical (and silly) question.
> The purpose of mentionning it is to show that I am not in
> control of the process, though it is not a very
> practical issue.

There is no process to be in control of, it is all automated.
You are in control of what you read and write. The superior
interface gives you more control, better control. Sometimes it
is so good and fast you don't even have time to think what you
say, so you say a bunch of stupid things to you dear colleagues
all over the world. _That_ is the amount of control you get
with Gnus and Gmane!

> Indeed. That is why I think I am not in control: I cannot
> reverse some actions initiated by me.

Ah, you mean like could edit a forum post in the golden days?

  EDIT: typo

LOL :)

You can't edit but you can send a second post and say, "Dear
incal, I'm sorry to have wasted your time with my ignorant
questions, I should have done like you said and just tested
it, it is all clear now and I agree my previous ways were an
embarrassment to the sport. I wish I could edit all those posts
and delete my questions but as you said yourself, Gmane isn't
like 'the golden day' forums. Nice phrase BTW, you are
a cool guy!"

Oh stop it! You don't need to say that! You are using Gnus and
Gmane and that makes you cool as well, dammit.

> I agree. I enjoy using Gnus a lot. That is why I am
> searching for some way to view mailing lists in Gnus that
> makes me feel better. :)

???

Is this some elaborate trolling? OK, you fooled me!

> And indeed the administrators of gmane would know my subscriptions
> to the mailing lists.  What if I want to subscribe to some secret
> mailing list

Regretably that's impossible - or it doesn't compute I should
say, undefined, since a mailing list with a user base of 1 is
a contradiction in terms.

> This makes me feel asymmetrical.

"asymmetrical" ... you mean like doing something good, that
takes several years of hard work? and screwing it all up, that
takes several beers?

> Thanks for the explanation. I am exactly concerned about
> that micro possibility of people abusing the service.

No. Anyway it isn't your job and you are unable to interfere
in any way so don't pretend to meddle.

> I don't know exactly what I shall try: I am already using
> Gnus, and gmane. And my need was already satisfied by the
> function `gnus-group-make-doc-group'. Sorry if I was not
> clear about this point.

Maybe next time consider not trying to combine computer time
with your visits at the circus and the zoo?

> Sorry if my theoretical, hypothetical and inpractical
> questions, and / or my ambiguous phrasing, disturbed you.

On the contrary, they are all added to the Emacs FAQ, for
future reference and SEO purposes ONLY mind you.

  Q: Why do you always answer a question with a question?
  A: Does that bother you?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-16 11:19           ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-16 11:41             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17  5:16             ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-17  8:02             ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2022-04-17  9:11               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17 10:05               ` Adam Sjøgren
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Byung-Hee HWANG @ 2022-04-17  8:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> (...thanks...)
> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
> store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.
>

Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this strategy...

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-17  8:02             ` Byung-Hee HWANG
@ 2022-04-17  9:11               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17 13:29                 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2022-04-17 10:05               ` Adam Sjøgren
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-17  9:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:

>> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days?
>> You can store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.
>
> Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this
> strategy ...

Mail isn't such a good example as it all depends if you get
attachments - how often, and how big.

News is a better example. (No binaries LOL.)

Here you go, friend:

$ ls ~/News/**/*(.) | wc -l
14332

$ du -hs News
204M	News

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-17  5:16             ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  2022-04-17  7:47               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-17  9:49               ` Adam Sjøgren
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2022-04-17  9:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Durand writes:

> I was imagining that this is easily abused, e.g. some user can make up
> a plethora of mailing lists, and then blow the gmane server up by
> subscribing to a new list every 10 seconds, say.

Every subscription takes human interaction to complete, so there is a
"natural" filter in place.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Python looks to me like the illegitimate spawn of         Adam Sjøgren
  C and BASIC, but then I used to program in 6502      asjo@koldfront.dk
  machine code so what do I know ..."



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-17  8:02             ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  2022-04-17  9:11               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-17 10:05               ` Adam Sjøgren
  2022-04-17 13:32                 ` 황병희
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2022-04-17 10:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Byung-Hee writes:

> Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

>> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
>> store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.

> Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this strategy...

I was just thinking about how small mailing list emails are compared to
how huge harddisks are these days.

My first harddisk was 40 MB, my laptop today has 1.5 TB of SSD. That's
more than 39000x larger. I definitely haven't been writing/receiving
39000x more emails. I have 396K emails in ~/Mail currently - they take
up 11 GB, that's ~a 140th of the available space.

In Feedbase I have 3.3 million articles currently, the PostgreSQL table
takes up around 5.4 GB on disk.

So I wasn't thinking of any specific strategy, storage spaces has just
grown much faster than email size.

PostgreSQL (unsurprisingly) is more efficient than a-file-per-article by
quite a bit, though :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Wandering stars                                           Adam Sjøgren
  For whom it is reserved                              asjo@koldfront.dk
  The blackness of darkness, forever"



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-17  9:11               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
@ 2022-04-17 13:29                 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Byung-Hee HWANG @ 2022-04-17 13:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

> Mail isn't such a good example as it all depends if you get
> attachments - how often, and how big.

I agree with you Emanuel!

> News is a better example. (No binaries LOL.)
>
> Here you go, friend:
>
> $ ls ~/News/**/*(.) | wc -l
> 14332
>
> $ du -hs News
> 204M	News

Good!

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-17 10:05               ` Adam Sjøgren
@ 2022-04-17 13:32                 ` 황병희
  2022-04-17 20:03                   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 25+ messages in thread
From: 황병희 @ 2022-04-17 13:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

Dear Adam,

Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:

> Byung-Hee writes:
>
>> Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes:
>
>>> Plus: have you looked at the sizes of harddisks these days? You can
>>> store a _lot_ of emails in a couple of terabytes.
>
>> Adam, please give me more example. Maybe i need this strategy...
>
> I was just thinking about how small mailing list emails are compared to
> how huge harddisks are these days.
>
> My first harddisk was 40 MB, my laptop today has 1.5 TB of SSD. That's
> more than 39000x larger. I definitely haven't been writing/receiving
> 39000x more emails. I have 396K emails in ~/Mail currently - they take
> up 11 GB, that's ~a 140th of the available space.
>
> In Feedbase I have 3.3 million articles currently, the PostgreSQL table
> takes up around 5.4 GB on disk.
>
> So I wasn't thinking of any specific strategy, storage spaces has just
> grown much faster than email size.
>
> PostgreSQL (unsurprisingly) is more efficient than a-file-per-article by
> quite a bit, though :-)
>
>
>   Best regards,
>
>     Adam

Just impressed over whole story. You are stable man Adam!

Thanks for share good article ^^^

Sincerely, Gnus fan Byung-Hee

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

* Re: How to subsribe to a general mailing list?
  2022-04-17 13:32                 ` 황병희
@ 2022-04-17 20:03                   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 25+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English) @ 2022-04-17 20:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: info-gnus-english

황병희 wrote:

>> My first harddisk was 40 MB [...]
>
> Just impressed over whole story. You are stable man Adam!

His first computer didn't have a disk ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 25+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-04-17 20:03 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 25+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-04-12 11:53 How to subsribe to a general mailing list? Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-12 12:18 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-04-13  2:43   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-13 22:45     ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-14 11:21       ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-14 13:10         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-14 13:24           ` Adam Sjøgren
2022-04-14 13:49             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-14 13:55           ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-14 13:22       ` Adam Sjøgren
2022-04-16  7:08         ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-16 11:19           ` Adam Sjøgren
2022-04-16 11:41             ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-17  5:16             ` Durand via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-17  7:47               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-17  9:49               ` Adam Sjøgren
2022-04-17  8:02             ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-04-17  9:11               ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-17 13:29                 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-04-17 10:05               ` Adam Sjøgren
2022-04-17 13:32                 ` 황병희
2022-04-17 20:03                   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-13  2:42 ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)
2022-04-13  2:50 ` Jai Vetrivelan
2022-04-13  7:33   ` Emanuel Berg via Announcements and discussions for GNUS, the GNU Emacs Usenet newsreader (in English)

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