syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Benjamin Slade]

I'm not certain where Gnus stores groups/topics settings. I would like
to be to sync group/topic settings/arrangements between machines. Is
this possible?

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Emanuel Berg]

Benjamin Slade <slade@jnanam.net> writes:

> I'm not certain where Gnus stores groups/topics
> settings. I would like to be to sync group/topic
> settings/arrangements between machines.
> Is this possible?

Do you mean as in _settings_ - i.e., preferences, or
"configuration and extention" in the Emacs world?

Then:

    gnus-init-file

(But note you can put your Gnus Elisp
configs/extensions in *any* file and just `load' it
manually if you feel there is a reason to.)

Or do you mean as in _state_ - what groups you
subscribe to, what messages you have read, etc?

Then:

    gnus-current-startup-file
    gnus-startup-file

Or do you mean something else?

Then:

    What do you mean?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Benjamin Slade]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Benjamin Slade <slade@jnanam.net> writes:
>
>> I'm not certain where Gnus stores groups/topics
>> settings. I would like to be to sync group/topic
>> settings/arrangements between machines.
>> Is this possible?
>
> Do you mean as in _settings_ - i.e., preferences, or
> "configuration and extention" in the Emacs world?
>
> Then:
>
>     gnus-init-file
>
> (But note you can put your Gnus Elisp
> configs/extensions in *any* file and just `load' it
> manually if you feel there is a reason to.)
>
> Or do you mean as in _state_ - what groups you
> subscribe to, what messages you have read, etc?
>
> Then:
>
>     gnus-current-startup-file
>     gnus-startup-file
>
> Or do you mean something else?
>
> Then:
>
>     What do you mean?

So in the *Group* buffer, which looks like:

[ Gnus -- 9198 ]
  [ Emacs ]
       0:imap+mymail:emacs
       7:imap+mymail:sexy_emacs
  [ Work ]
    9000:imap+gmail:urgent_work
  [ misc ]
       89:imap+mymail:origami
     ...
etc., etc.

I have setup certain topics and arranged groups within them. Is there a
way to sync this between machines? Or is it something which needs to be
recreated by hand on each separate machine?

It doesn't look like Gnus is saving these settings in .emacs or anything.

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Benjamin Slade <slade@jnanam.net> writes:

> Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:
>
>> Benjamin Slade <slade@jnanam.net> writes:
>>
>>> I'm not certain where Gnus stores groups/topics
>>> settings. I would like to be to sync group/topic
>>> settings/arrangements between machines.
>>> Is this possible?
>>
>> Do you mean as in _settings_ - i.e., preferences, or
>> "configuration and extention" in the Emacs world?
>>
>> Then:
>>
>>     gnus-init-file
>>
>> (But note you can put your Gnus Elisp
>> configs/extensions in *any* file and just `load' it
>> manually if you feel there is a reason to.)
>>
>> Or do you mean as in _state_ - what groups you
>> subscribe to, what messages you have read, etc?
>>
>> Then:
>>
>>     gnus-current-startup-file
>>     gnus-startup-file
>>
>> Or do you mean something else?
>>
>> Then:
>>
>>     What do you mean?
>
> So in the *Group* buffer, which looks like:
>
> [ Gnus -- 9198 ]
>   [ Emacs ]
>        0:imap+mymail:emacs
>        7:imap+mymail:sexy_emacs
>   [ Work ]
>     9000:imap+gmail:urgent_work
>   [ misc ]
>        89:imap+mymail:origami
>      ...
> etc., etc.
>
> I have setup certain topics and arranged groups within them. Is there a
> way to sync this between machines? Or is it something which needs to be
> recreated by hand on each separate machine?
>
> It doesn't look like Gnus is saving these settings in .emacs or anything.

It's kept in the variable `gnus-topic-alist', which is saved to the file
pointed to by `gnus-startup-file', which on this machine points to
~/.emacs.d/.newsrc. That's where gnus stores most of its state,
including subscribed groups and message marks.

I wouldn't recommend copying this file between machines -- I tried that
before, and it didn't work out well. There is a possibility that in the
future, Gnus' various state objects will be separated out a little more
cleanly. It would be nice to at least have a separation between
"settings than can be synced or kept in version control" (which would
include group subscriptions and topic arrangements), and "settings that
only Gnus should mess with", which I guess would mostly be marks.

For the time being, though, at least you can manually copy the setq
statement out of newsrc.eld...

Yours,
Eric

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Benjamin Slade]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> B. Slade wrote:
>> So in the *Group* buffer, which looks like:
>>
>> [ Gnus -- 9198 ]
>>   [ Emacs ]
>>        0:imap+mymail:emacs
>>        7:imap+mymail:sexy_emacs
>>   [ Work ]
>>     9000:imap+gmail:urgent_work
>>   [ misc ]
>>        89:imap+mymail:origami
>>      ...
>> etc., etc.
>>
>> I have setup certain topics and arranged groups within them. Is there a
>> way to sync this between machines? Or is it something which needs to be
>> recreated by hand on each separate machine?
>>
>> It doesn't look like Gnus is saving these settings in .emacs or anything.
>
> It's kept in the variable `gnus-topic-alist', which is saved to the file
> pointed to by `gnus-startup-file', which on this machine points to
> ~/.emacs.d/.newsrc. That's where gnus stores most of its state,
> including subscribed groups and message marks.
>
> I wouldn't recommend copying this file between machines -- I tried that
> before, and it didn't work out well. There is a possibility that in the
> future, Gnus' various state objects will be separated out a little more
> cleanly. It would be nice to at least have a separation between
> "settings than can be synced or kept in version control" (which would
> include group subscriptions and topic arrangements), and "settings that
> only Gnus should mess with", which I guess would mostly be marks.
>
> For the time being, though, at least you can manually copy the setq
> statement out of newsrc.eld...
>

Ah, thanks. I see it now.  Yes, I already tried just copying .newsrc and
.newsrc.eld and that didn't seem to work well. But manually copying the
setq out of .newsrc.eld seems like a reasonable stopgap solution.

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Benjamin Slade <slade@jnanam.net> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> B. Slade wrote:
>>> So in the *Group* buffer, which looks like:
>>>
>>> [ Gnus -- 9198 ]
>>>   [ Emacs ]
>>>        0:imap+mymail:emacs
>>>        7:imap+mymail:sexy_emacs
>>>   [ Work ]
>>>     9000:imap+gmail:urgent_work
>>>   [ misc ]
>>>        89:imap+mymail:origami
>>>      ...
>>> etc., etc.
>>>
>>> I have setup certain topics and arranged groups within them. Is there a
>>> way to sync this between machines? Or is it something which needs to be
>>> recreated by hand on each separate machine?
>>>
>>> It doesn't look like Gnus is saving these settings in .emacs or anything.
>>
>> It's kept in the variable `gnus-topic-alist', which is saved to the file
>> pointed to by `gnus-startup-file', which on this machine points to
>> ~/.emacs.d/.newsrc. That's where gnus stores most of its state,
>> including subscribed groups and message marks.
>>
>> I wouldn't recommend copying this file between machines -- I tried that
>> before, and it didn't work out well. There is a possibility that in the
>> future, Gnus' various state objects will be separated out a little more
>> cleanly. It would be nice to at least have a separation between
>> "settings than can be synced or kept in version control" (which would
>> include group subscriptions and topic arrangements), and "settings that
>> only Gnus should mess with", which I guess would mostly be marks.
>>
>> For the time being, though, at least you can manually copy the setq
>> statement out of newsrc.eld...
>>
>
> Ah, thanks. I see it now.  Yes, I already tried just copying .newsrc and
> .newsrc.eld and that didn't seem to work well. But manually copying the
> setq out of .newsrc.eld seems like a reasonable stopgap solution.

Especially if you're not changing things all the time. Hopefully we'll
have a better solution before too long!

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Emanuel Berg]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> It's kept in the variable `gnus-topic-alist', which
> is saved to the file pointed to by
> `gnus-startup-file', which on this machine points to
> ~/.emacs.d/.newsrc. That's where gnus stores most of
> its state, including subscribed groups and
> message marks.
>
> I wouldn't recommend copying this file between
> machines -- I tried that before, and it didn't work
> out well.

How so?

If Gnus stores its state there and the state is
identical the result should be identical. If it isn't,
something is wrong.

I'll try it right now and tell you how it went...

> There is a possibility that in the future, Gnus'
> various state objects will be separated out a little
> more cleanly. It would be nice to at least have
> a separation between "settings than can be synced or
> kept in version control" (which would include group
> subscriptions and topic arrangements), and "settings
> that only Gnus should mess with", which I guess
> would mostly be marks.

Yeah, but isn't that separation exactly what is with
.gnus and .newsrc[.eld]?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> It's kept in the variable `gnus-topic-alist', which
>> is saved to the file pointed to by
>> `gnus-startup-file', which on this machine points to
>> ~/.emacs.d/.newsrc. That's where gnus stores most of
>> its state, including subscribed groups and
>> message marks.
>>
>> I wouldn't recommend copying this file between
>> machines -- I tried that before, and it didn't work
>> out well.
>
> How so?
>
> If Gnus stores its state there and the state is
> identical the result should be identical. If it isn't,
> something is wrong.

That was my assumption as well! I can't remember what the exact issue
was, now, but I suspect it was something to do with imap. Anyway, the
marks were very definitely not right.

> I'll try it right now and tell you how it went...
>
>> There is a possibility that in the future, Gnus'
>> various state objects will be separated out a little
>> more cleanly. It would be nice to at least have
>> a separation between "settings than can be synced or
>> kept in version control" (which would include group
>> subscriptions and topic arrangements), and "settings
>> that only Gnus should mess with", which I guess
>> would mostly be marks.
>
> Yeah, but isn't that separation exactly what is with
> .gnus and .newsrc[.eld]?

Well, the OP's question indicates otherwise :) Right now .newsrc
contains quite a bit of information that could be considered user-level
customizations: which groups are subscribed, group parameters, the topic
layout, and the highly-confusing `gnus-server-alist'. Values that only
change when the user explicitly changes them. These things are editable
through the Gnus interface, but I think users would be a lot happier if
they were also stored separately, in a format that could be safely
shared between computers, and maybe even editable by hand.

The marks backend would store all the internal stuff that is vital for
Gnus' operation; stuff that isn't editable by hand; that goes through a
lot of churn just in the course of daily operation. Marks, and things
like uidvalidity values.

Anyway, just thinking out loud...

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Benjamin Slade]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> It's kept in the variable `gnus-topic-alist', which
>> is saved to the file pointed to by
>> `gnus-startup-file', which on this machine points to
>> ~/.emacs.d/.newsrc. That's where gnus stores most of
>> its state, including subscribed groups and
>> message marks.
>>
>> I wouldn't recommend copying this file between
>> machines -- I tried that before, and it didn't work
>> out well.
>
> How so?
>
> If Gnus stores its state there and the state is
> identical the result should be identical. If it isn't,
> something is wrong.
>
> I'll try it right now and tell you how it went...

I'll be curious how this experiment goes. I didn't seem to have much
luck, but it may depend on not running Gnus while copying/syncing the
.newsrc/.newsrc.eld files.

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Benjamin Slade]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> It's kept in the variable `gnus-topic-alist', which
>> is saved to the file pointed to by
>> `gnus-startup-file', which on this machine points to
>> ~/.emacs.d/.newsrc. That's where gnus stores most of
>> its state, including subscribed groups and
>> message marks.
>>
>> I wouldn't recommend copying this file between
>> machines -- I tried that before, and it didn't work
>> out well.
>
> How so?
>
> If Gnus stores its state there and the state is
> identical the result should be identical. If it isn't,
> something is wrong.
>
> I'll try it right now and tell you how it went...

I'll be curious how this experiment goes. I didn't seem to have much
luck, but it may depend on not running Gnus while copying/syncing the
.newsrc/.newsrc.eld files.

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[myglc2]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Well, the OP's question indicates otherwise :) Right now .newsrc
> contains quite a bit of information that could be considered user-level
> customizations: which groups are subscribed, group parameters, the topic
> layout, and the highly-confusing `gnus-server-alist'. Values that only
> change when the user explicitly changes them. These things are editable
> through the Gnus interface, but I think users would be a lot happier if
> they were also stored separately, in a format that could be safely
> shared between computers, and maybe even editable by hand.

This is a nice summary of what I have just been looking through gnus
INFO and trying to figure out.

So... many gnus configurations elements can be set either interactively
or through init files (e.g., creating servers and groups). Others can
only be set interactively and saved in .newsrc. I confess, I am having a
hard time keeping clear which is which.

Are any of the "user-level customizations" above also settable in init
files?

Thanks, - George

Re: syncing groups/topics arrangement between machines?

[Eric Abrahamsen]

On 01/03/16 17:43 PM, myglc2 wrote:
> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Well, the OP's question indicates otherwise :) Right now .newsrc
>> contains quite a bit of information that could be considered user-level
>> customizations: which groups are subscribed, group parameters, the topic
>> layout, and the highly-confusing `gnus-server-alist'. Values that only
>> change when the user explicitly changes them. These things are editable
>> through the Gnus interface, but I think users would be a lot happier if
>> they were also stored separately, in a format that could be safely
>> shared between computers, and maybe even editable by hand.
>
> This is a nice summary of what I have just been looking through gnus
> INFO and trying to figure out.
>
> So... many gnus configurations elements can be set either interactively
> or through init files (e.g., creating servers and groups). Others can
> only be set interactively and saved in .newsrc. I confess, I am having a
> hard time keeping clear which is which.
>
> Are any of the "user-level customizations" above also settable in init
> files?

No, things like the topic layout is automatically saved by Gnus. You
could set `gnus-topic-alist' in your .gnus.el file, but next time you
save Gnus it would get re-saved to your .newsrc.eld file. It's better to
keep your init files and Gnus' init files separate! I just wish the
customization-like settings could be kept in their own file.