Re: do i need a .newrc file?

Re: do i need a .newrc file?

[Tim McNamara]

leo <leo@bella.local> writes:

> hi there
> 
> the gnus manual talks about the .newrc file. (quote: "Now, you all
> know about the `.newsrc' file.")
> 
> well, on my system (mac os x) is no .newsrc file in my home
> directory. and gnus doesn't create one. it only creates a
> .newsrc-dribble file, although `gnus-save-newsrc-file' is set to t.

Are you using Emacs/Gnus under Terminal, X11 or Aqua?  Not that it
should make a difference, actually.  I've used all three, currently
am using it under X11 because it just works best that way IMHO.

> i guess there's something worng because when i start up gnus it asks
> me to read an auto-save file...
> 
> any idea what's a clean setup regarding the .newrc file?

Well, it's ".newsrc" not ".newrc" so check to make sure that you're
not expecting a nonexistent file.  Also, Gnus uses ".newsrc.eld" for
many of its functions- actuallyusing .newsrc.eld more than .newsrc.

IIRC .newsrc should be created when you subscribe to your
newsgroups.  Have you done that step?  .newsrc.eld should be created
the first time you properly quit Gnus (type a lower case q and then
answer with a lower case y when Gnus asks you if you really want to
stop reading news).  If you quit improperly, then Gnus creates an
auto-save file (.newsrc-dribble or some such).

If you haven't seen it, www.gnus.org has an excellent and very
convenient manual about Gnus.  It will answer most of your questions
and tell you all sorts of things that you can do with Gnus.

Re: do i need a .newrc file?

[Kai Grossjohann]

kbk@shore.net (Kurt B. Kaiser) writes:

> With info the constant movement of the hand back and forth from the
> arrow keys to the 'l' / <enter> set is annoying.  And the arrow keys
> move in such small increments, suitable for editing but not for
> browsing.  It would be better IMHO to emulate lynx and the other
> text based browsers:

Arrow keys?  *trying*  Oh, the _arrow_ keys!  Nah, they are no good.

You can use SPC for scrolling a page.

> Right arrow goes into a link, left arrow goes back, down arrow goes to
> the next link on the page, and up arrow to the previous.  The
> navigation is quick and I don't have to move my hand.

TAB goes to the next link.  M-TAB goes to the previous link.  RET
follows the link (or C-m if you prefer that).

But that arrow key suggestion is good, I think.

Kai

Re: do i need a .newrc file?

[Kai Grossjohann]

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> writes:

> Part of it is how Emacs splits the screen.  Only a small portion of
> the info text is visible at any time, for example, and it does strange
> things with tranposing buffer positions that are not one would
> naturally expect.  This is more an issue for new users, and of course
> new users are much more likely to be going through the manual.
> Experienced users know how to manipulate buffers, do full-screen
> displays, eliminate split windows, etc.  I still get weird results,
> like the Messages buffer suddenly appearing on screen when I was
> trying to do something else.

When I type C-h i, there is no split.  (Unless there was a split to
begin with, of course.)

I have seen newbies drag the modeline, but of course that only resizes
the window.  Maybe we should add a little [X] icon in the modeline, so
that people know what to do to close the corresponding window.  (But
then the problem is that the modeline is below the window, whereas
Windows users are used to the [X] button being above the thing that's
closed.  Hm.)

>> One possible problem is that the keys are different from what people
>> with web browsers are used to.  Alt-Left doesn't do what you think
>> it'd do, for instance.
>
> Well, with a GUI it's simple to navigate with just the mouse.  Just
> point and click, no key commands required.  Having grown up with GUIs,
> like most users, I often do not even know the key sequence equivalent
> of a mouse movement in any of my Web browsers.

So, does this not work in Info?

You have to use the middle mouse button for following a link, though.
That's unfortunate.  But I don't see how to change this without
causing lots of problems.  Any ideas?

>> But Info has the `i' key which searches the index.  It also has the
>> `s' key which searches the whole manual.  (And unless the whole
>> manual is a single HTML file in the web version, there is no
>> fulltext search in the web version!)
>>
>> I find these two search options indispensable.
>>
>> I also often use `g' which allows me to enter a node name (with
>> completion) and then warps me there.
>
> For the new user, these things seem to result in finding the wrong
> information.  Often times what one would be looking for has an
> entirely idiosyncratic name, so one can't find it readily.

:-(  It's a pity.  Is the `i' search really so bad?  If so, then more
search terms should be added such that people can find it even when
they type the Windows terminology.

> Emacs is counter-intuitive in how commands are named, and it is
> necessary to learn an entirely Emacs-specific vocabulary to be
> compentent in it (modes and nodes and such).  The terminology used
> between Mac OS and Windows text editors/word processors tends to be
> relatively similar to each other (cut and paste rather than kill and
> yank, for example) and Emacs does not follow those naming conventions,
> having predated most of Mac and Windows by years.  Some significant
> things are missing, like a menu command to create a new file (rather
> than having to do 'C-x C-f newfile" for example.  And commands can
> vary dramatically from major mode to major mode, whereas Mac and
> Windows conventions avoid this.

At least `i cut SPC and SPC paste RET' finds something useful in the
current Emacs CVS info file.

> It's a difficult problem to solve- Emacs has a long tradition and
> changing that terminology to make it more accessible to new users
> would annoy and discombobulate the longstanding users.  The power of
> Emacs is, as has often been remarked, it's Achilles heel.  And yet to
> grow the user base, it's possibly important to make the Emacs
> experience not totally alien to what users already know- and the main
> potential for expanding the user base is Windows users and Mac users.

Yes.  I totally agree with you, even though I might forget from time
to time.  The problem is quite difficult to solve.

Kai

Re: Using info manuals (was: do i need a .newrc file?)

[leo]

"Reiner Steib" <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> wrote in message
news:v9ptdzqsnv.fsf_-_@marauder.physik.uni-ulm.de...
> On Sun, Jan 04 2004, Kai Grossjohann wrote:
>
> I agree with Simon that this is very useful.  Wouldn't it be nice if
> `clone-buffer' would be available from the menu?  (If we don't find
> this command easily, how are novice users supposed to find it?)  I
> couldn't find it in the info info manual (in 21.3).

uuups, now i see,that the clone-buffer advice is comen knowledge.. sorry.

one over thing which might be quite help full with muliple info buffers: the
u command with prefix doesn't alowe to leave the current file: that is very
help full if you want something like an *info elisp* buffer:

when you bind C-u u to a single key you can move up without worrying about
leaving your particular manual.

i'm thinking about a little function which generates and renames an info
buffer (maybe plus frame) and jumps straight to the appropiate
manual.something you cal call like (make-info-topic-frame "elisp").

when used again with the same string ideally it would jump to the existing
buffer, but that might be a bit hard...

cheers, leo

Re: do i need a .newrc file?

[Tassilo Horn]

leo <leo@bella.local> writes:

> hi there

Hi,

> i guess there's something worng because when i start up gnus it asks 
> me to read an auto-save file...

Hm, normally that means that you didn't shut down Gnus properly. Do you
exit it with "q"? You shouldn't close it by clicking the X-button of the
Emacs window. 

> thanks, leo

HTH,
        Tassilo

And please, don't post articles with those long lines here! You're a
Gnus user, no Outlook user. Add something like
(add-hook 'message-mode-hook
	  (lambda ()
	    (setq fill-column 72)
	    (turn-on-auto-fill)))
to your .gnus. This will ensure that your lines are 72 characters long
at maximum. 

-- 
Politically Correct UNIX(tm) System VI Release notes
"man" pages are now called "person" pages.