What exactly is a NOV header

What exactly is a NOV header

[Slackrat]

Could someone please refer me to a definition of exactly what a NOV
header is in simple language?

All the references I can find presume that one already knows what a
NOV header is and unfortunately I do not


-- 
SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
--George Orwell

Re: What exactly is a NOV header

[Anupam Sengupta]

>>>>> "Madhu" == Madhu  <enometh@meer.net> writes:

    Slackrat> Slackrat <87ps38lx7i.fsf@azurservers.com> wrote:
    Slackrat> Could someone please refer me to a definition of exactly what a
    Slackrat> NOV header is in simple language?

NOV stands for _News Overview_ and is a header/database format for newsreaders
to process data in the NNTP articles. This format was developed by Geoff Collyer
and is now a defacto standard for NNTP newsreaders - including Gnus.

You can read more about the NOV format and headers at:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/software/inn-faq/part1/section-15.html

    Madhu> Its described in the info file for gnus.  Did you already read this:
    Madhu> M-x eval-expression RET (info "(gnus)Headers") RET

    No. NOV is NOT described in the info node you mentioned (at least on my
    install, which is gnus v5.11). Please check before posting. A *reference* is
    made to NOV headers - but as the OP pointed out, no definition of *what* NOV
    headers are is not provided.

-- 
Anupam

Re: What exactly is a NOV header

[Anupam Sengupta]

>>>>> "Anupam" == Anupam Sengupta <anupamsg@gmail.com> writes:

>>>>> "Madhu" == Madhu  <enometh@meer.net> writes:
    Slackrat> Slackrat <87ps38lx7i.fsf@azurservers.com> wrote:
    Slackrat> Could someone please refer me to a definition of exactly what a
    Slackrat> NOV header is in simple language?

    Anupam> NOV stands for _News Overview_ and is a header/database format for
    Anupam> newsreaders to process data in the NNTP articles. This format was
    Anupam> developed by Geoff Collyer and is now a defacto standard for NNTP
    Anupam> newsreaders - including Gnus.

    Anupam> You can read more about the NOV format and headers at:

    Anupam> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/software/inn-faq/part1/section-15.html

    Madhu> Its described in the info file for gnus.  Did you already read this:
    Madhu> M-x eval-expression RET (info "(gnus)Headers") RET

    Anupam>     No. NOV is NOT described in the info node you mentioned (at
    Anupam> least on my install, which is gnus v5.11). Please check before
    Anupam> posting. A *reference* is made to NOV headers - but as the OP
    Anupam> pointed out, no definition of *what* NOV headers are is not
    Anupam> provided.

Another good definition is at:

http://quimby.gnus.org/notes/nov-faq.txt

>From the FAQ:

,----
| _What is the Overview/NOV database?_
| 
| The Overview or News OverView (NOV) database was designed by Geoff
| Collyer.  Its a more generalized database, it it contains *no*
| threading information, just the information needed to thread.  The
| overview database is just a database of files, one for each group,
| containing a reference to each article, with seven or eight of the
| most popular headers.  Thus, the newsreader client can get most of the
| information it needs to thread, but it does the threading the way it
| wants to.  Yes, the downside is that now the threading occurs on the
| client's CPU, but that's not as expensive as it may seem, if done
| properly. 
`----

-- 
Anupam

Re: What exactly is a NOV header

[Slackrat]

Anupam Sengupta <anupamsg@gmail.com> writes:

>>>>>> "Anupam" == Anupam Sengupta <anupamsg@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>>>>> "Madhu" == Madhu  <enometh@meer.net> writes:
>     Slackrat> Slackrat <87ps38lx7i.fsf@azurservers.com> wrote:
>     Slackrat> Could someone please refer me to a definition of exactly what a
>     Slackrat> NOV header is in simple language?
>
>     Anupam> NOV stands for _News Overview_ and is a header/database format for
>     Anupam> newsreaders to process data in the NNTP articles. This format was
>     Anupam> developed by Geoff Collyer and is now a defacto standard for NNTP
>     Anupam> newsreaders - including Gnus.
>
>     Anupam> You can read more about the NOV format and headers at:
>
>     Anupam> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/software/inn-faq/part1/section-15.html
>
>     Madhu> Its described in the info file for gnus.  Did you already read this:
>     Madhu> M-x eval-expression RET (info "(gnus)Headers") RET
>
>     Anupam>     No. NOV is NOT described in the info node you mentioned (at
>     Anupam> least on my install, which is gnus v5.11). Please check before
>     Anupam> posting. A *reference* is made to NOV headers - but as the OP
>     Anupam> pointed out, no definition of *what* NOV headers are is not
>     Anupam> provided.
>
> Another good definition is at:
>
> http://quimby.gnus.org/notes/nov-faq.txt
>
> From the FAQ:
>
> ,----
> | _What is the Overview/NOV database?_
> | 
> | The Overview or News OverView (NOV) database was designed by Geoff
> | Collyer.  Its a more generalized database, it it contains *no*
> | threading information, just the information needed to thread.  The
> | overview database is just a database of files, one for each group,
> | containing a reference to each article, with seven or eight of the
> | most popular headers.  Thus, the newsreader client can get most of the
> | information it needs to thread, but it does the threading the way it
> | wants to.  Yes, the downside is that now the threading occurs on the
> | client's CPU, but that's not as expensive as it may seem, if done
> | properly. 
> `----
>
> -- 
> Anupam
>
Thanks

In actual fact I had looked into the Info and searched too


-- 
SlackRat - No 4Q to Reply

Re: What exactly is a NOV header

[Anupam Sengupta]

>>>>> "Madhu" == Madhu  <enometh@meer.net> writes:

    Madhu> The OP is satisfied with your other post.  So no point flaming this
    Madhu> thread, however

Madhu, I am _not_ flaming here. As I pointed out below, the info node references
the NOV headers, but does not define them - and hence is not what the OP is
looking for. Therefore my response to your node link.

[...]

    Madhu> What is described in the info page is not NOV but the gnus internal
    Madhu> format which is closely related.  

Correct. The internal format is described here. A better info node where the
actual NOV is defined to a better extent is:

       (info "gnus(Terminology)")

which has a short description of NOV.    

    Madhu> The info page stated "Internally Gnus uses a format for storing
    Madhu> article headers that corresponds to the NOV format in a mysterious
    Madhu> fashion.  One could almost suspect that the author looked at the NOV
    Madhu> specification and just shamelessly _stole_ the entire thing, and one
    Madhu> would be right."

    Madhu> And I had used the description there to grok nov databases.



    Madhu> The URL you provided in this post also just referred to the NOV
    Madhu> headers and no definition of what NOV headers are is provided.

The URLs I had provided are FAQs on NOV and contain additional cross-references
at the end which the OP can use if he/she needs additional information.

E.g., see the URL 

      http://quimby.gnus.org/notes/nov-faq.txt 

(provided in my second post) and grep for

          "Subject: What is the format of the NOV database?"

This goes into the NOV headers in detail. To quote the FAQ response:

,----
| [this is stolen from Geoff Collyer's newsoverview(5) man page]
| 
| Each newsgroup directory contains a file named  `.overview',
| containing  one-line  summaries  of  articles in that group.  Fields
| are separated by tabs, and any tabs  or  newlines  in the  original
| articles  headers  have  been  replaced  with spaces.  The fields are,
| in  order:  article  number  (file name),  subject,  author, date,
| message-id, references, byte  count, line count, and optionally other
| headers, as arranged  locally  (none  are  supplied  by  the  database
| maintenance software, as shipped).  The line-count and references
| field may  be  empty.   If the optional other headers are present,
| they include their header keyword and  colon;  if  they  are absent
| entirely, the tab after the line-count field may also be absent.
| 
| ie:
| 
|     artid|subject|From|Date|Message-Id|References|bytecount|linecount|\
| 		Optional-Header: Stuff
| 
| where | represents a tab and \ a line continuation (there are no 
| continuation lines in the Overview entry, it's just so that the above
| line fits in 80 columns).
| 
| Remember that header keywords in optional headers should be matched
| case insensitively.
`----

    Madhu> "Please check before criticizing"?

I will not respond to this since carrying this further *will* lead to an
unnecessary continuation of this thread with little information value and high
S/N ratio.  However, to clarify, the intent was to respond to *what* the OP
wanted (which has been fulfilled, as evidenced by his confirmation post), than
to *criticize* your response.


-- 
Anupam