* Re: Why do we need a number of different terminal modes in Emacs? [not found] <mailman.19085.1422772746.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> @ 2015-02-01 13:43 ` Hikaru Ichijyo 2015-02-03 19:05 ` Emanuel Berg 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Hikaru Ichijyo @ 2015-02-01 13:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english Andrey Lisin <andrey.lisin@gmail.com> writes: > could anyone explain me why do we need several of terminal > implementations inside Emacs? Shell, eshell, term, ansi-term... And as > far as I noticed they all suck one way or another. For example, shell > cannot complete commands when you ssh to remote server inside > it. Eshell tragically cannot do a very simple thing - source a bash > script. Really, try to run `. some_script.sh' or `source > some_script.sh' inside eshell. From what I've gathered, the primary advantage of working with the UNIX shell from inside Emacs (in programs like 'shell') is that unlike in a normal terminal, you can cursor anywhere, up to output that has already been emitted, and do regular Emacs editor operations on command output after the fact. If you're wanting something like a plain old xterm inside Emacs, the one that comes the closest is 'term', though even it has its problems. It's slower than a real xterm, and sometimes the Emacs key bindings get in the way of the actual terminal. They're all just there for conveniences though. If you find yourself needing a fast, efficient terminal that just does the job the way you expect, run rxvt (standalone). Heresy as it might be, you don't have to do everything in Emacs! (Uh-oh, I said it now...) > So, am I right and we need them all just because one solves > restrictions of the others and others do the same thing for the one? > Why then not just to write some standard terminal implementation, that > will just works? Does it have something with cross-platform nature of > Emacs? Or, maybe I'm doing something wrong and all this stuff makes > sense? Thank you. I really do think part of the motivation for making them was just the Emacs philosophy that everything ought to at least try to be available in Emacs. Whether you end up getting a terminal that can replace xterm or rxvt that way is another question, but they did try! :) I run 'term' when I want a general purpose Emacs terminal though. -- He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself. --Thomas Paine ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Why do we need a number of different terminal modes in Emacs? 2015-02-01 13:43 ` Why do we need a number of different terminal modes in Emacs? Hikaru Ichijyo @ 2015-02-03 19:05 ` Emanuel Berg 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg @ 2015-02-03 19:05 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english Hikaru Ichijyo <ichijyo@macross.sdf.jp> writes: > From what I've gathered, the primary advantage of > working with the UNIX shell from inside Emacs (in > programs like 'shell') is that unlike in a normal > terminal, you can cursor anywhere, up to output that > has already been emitted, and do regular Emacs > editor operations on command output after the fact. Yes, at least in today's world, that's the advantage: complete integration of the material inputted/outputted, the same editing keys, and the same configuration/documentation interface. In my experience, this need isn't as big with the shell as it is with for example mail. But sometimes there is an advantage to have it. Then, if you don't do it in Emacs, mostly it is about being able to cut and paste from/to Emacs/the shell. If you have that, as that isn't done that often to begin with, you can do it when you need it and that's enough. But of course the in-Emacs terminal emulators serve a purpose, and if the OP isn't happy with them, he is encouraged to improve them starting today. > They're all just there for conveniences though. If > you find yourself needing a fast, efficient terminal > that just does the job the way you expect, run rxvt > (standalone). Heresy as it might be, you don't have > to do everything in Emacs! (Uh-oh, I said it now...) In X, apart from xterm and rxvt, there is also urxvt ("u" is for Unicode, "r" for reduced, there rest should be clear). If you don't use the terminal emulators in Emacs, then you need a fast transition from Emacs to the shell. I run Emacs in the Linux VT, in /dev/tty1; in 2-6 I have tmux/zsh; and then I can switch very quick from Emacs to the shell with M-l, and back with M-j (right and left: that works in the shell ttys and even in X with xbindkeys). Here is some material on that: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/remap.inc http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/.tmux.conf -- underground experts united ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Why do we need a number of different terminal modes in Emacs? @ 2015-02-01 6:38 Andrey Lisin 2015-02-01 7:06 ` Andrey Lisin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Andrey Lisin @ 2015-02-01 6:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english Hi everyone, could anyone explain me why do we need several of terminal implementations inside Emacs? Shell, eshell, term, ansi-term... And as far as I noticed they all suck one way or another. For example, shell cannot complete commands when you ssh to remote server inside it. Eshell tragically cannot do a very simple thing - source a bash script. Really, try to run `. some_script.sh' or `source some_script.sh' inside eshell. So, am I right and we need them all just because one solves restrictions of the others and others do the same thing for the one? Why then not just to write some standard terminal implementation, that will just works? Does it have something with cross-platform nature of Emacs? Or, maybe I'm doing something wrong and all this stuff makes sense? Thank you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: Why do we need a number of different terminal modes in Emacs? 2015-02-01 6:38 Andrey Lisin @ 2015-02-01 7:06 ` Andrey Lisin 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Andrey Lisin @ 2015-02-01 7:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: info-gnus-english Sorry, post was intended to be sent to another group. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2015-02-03 19:05 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <mailman.19085.1422772746.1147.info-gnus-english@gnu.org> 2015-02-01 13:43 ` Why do we need a number of different terminal modes in Emacs? Hikaru Ichijyo 2015-02-03 19:05 ` Emanuel Berg 2015-02-01 6:38 Andrey Lisin 2015-02-01 7:06 ` Andrey Lisin
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