What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Stefan Huchler]

I experimented with shimbun but as far as I understand it its more or
less only there to show newstickers but not to view and post comments at
least thats not what I see in heise.de newsticker.

So I digged around further thought ok slashdot is pretty famous geek
site, so lets search for that and gnus and I found gnus documentation
which mentions nnslashdot and nnultimate as methods for gnus groups.

http://sunsite.ualberta.ca/Documentation/Gnu/emacs-21.1/html_chapter/gnus_6.html#SEC173

In the current documentation I dont find this methods anymore.

Did they just got removed and replaced with nothing else? I hate this
fuckin web-forums. So is there no way to use my themed consistend
newsreader (gnus) instead of this laggy flashy forums sites?

Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Jeffrey DeLeo]

You can subscribe to the group "gwene.org.slashdot" which is on the
server "news.gwene.org". Gwene is an RSS (and Atom, etc) to Usenet News
(i. e., NNTP) gateway.  Works quite well.

Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Adam Sjøgren]

Jeffrey DeLeo <JeffreyDeLeo@gmail.com> writes:

> You can subscribe to the group "gwene.org.slashdot" which is on the
> server "news.gwene.org". Gwene is an RSS (and Atom, etc) to Usenet News
> (i. e., NNTP) gateway.  Works quite well.

Gwene doesn't allow you to post comments, though.

(Not surprising for a general tool when you think about it, but I think
the original poster was looking for that functionality.)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "They were trying to make me an insider to some kind         Adam Sjøgren
  of trip they were on. I don't think so."               asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Stefan Huchler]

yes thats what I wanted basicly I want something like Tapatalk but as
foss and for the pc.

Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Adam Sjøgren]

Stefan Huchler <stefan.huchler@mail.de> writes:

> yes thats what I wanted basicly I want something like Tapatalk but as
> foss and for the pc.

By the way: nnslashdot was removed in 2010:

  2010-08-30  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@gnus.org>

    [...]

          * nnslashdot.el: Remove this unused backend.

And so was nnultimate:

  2010-08-31  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@gnus.org>

    [...]

          * nnultimate.el: Remove.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Let's have a pointless round of applause."                  Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Stefan Huchler]

ok u answered my quetion literaly. But the question behind my question
is, what else like that is there, and if nothing is there why.

Why would people want to use this horrific forums of websites which are
not consistent at all?

So either u comment on nothing as example a youtube video or a news on a
german news site, or u have to use this horrific slow website interfaces
with horrible mouse-only guis.

Even on smartphones u have software like tapatalk becuase browser suck
on mobile even more than on a big screen.

Even websites like facebook and twitter use non-browser-interfaces
because they know that webinterface is broken.

Its so retarded to buy 10 ssds 50gb ram and quadcore computers for what
to fire the 50 open tabs in the browser.

Its just the ugliest, incosistent, slowest, dumbest, resource-eating
idea to render newsgroups or stuff like that (forums) with html.

If it were only that it would be bad enough, but u cant even make the
font sizes bigger on websites without breaking every second website, and
then other sites just have to scroll sidewards if u give them less than
1024 pixels size horrizental.

Its a constant pain, and u say to me they removed that killer feature
without any reason.

Again to come the questions how am I supposed to write in a non painfull
way comments to blogs websites???

Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Adam Sjøgren]

Stefan Huchler <stefan.huchler@mail.de> writes:

> ok u answered my quetion literaly. But the question behind my question
> is, what else like that is there, and if nothing is there why.

Webscraping forum-sites is a lot of work, as you have to keep up with
every little change.

The websites that are making money on advertising probably don't have
much incentive to not break access methods that effectively bypass their
income.

Oh, and people who use such systems are probably not the most
forgiving/grateful people you can find. I suspect they are likely to
bitch and moan, rather than do some work to solve the problem
themselves.

> Why would people want to use this horrific forums of websites which are
> not consistent at all?

99% of the net population think it is good enough/don't care?

> Even websites like facebook and twitter use non-browser-interfaces
> because they know that webinterface is broken.

Someone recently suggested that apps were nice for corporations like
that because you can do anything with the users data, where browsers
have at least some amount of user-centric protection.

[... more ranting cut ...]

> Its a constant pain, and u say to me they removed that killer feature
> without any reason.

I said no such thing.

I can speculate on why they were removed, if you really want: The code
did not work anymore, and nobody was interested enough in the
functionality to step up and fix it.

Maybe people interested in slashdot comments are more interested in
ranting than doing work fixing code?

> Again to come the questions how am I supposed to write in a non painfull
> way comments to blogs websites???

Maybe the answer is to spend the time doing something else? :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Lil'Johnny's mund er fuld af blod"                          Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Stefan Huchler]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>
> Webscraping forum-sites is a lot of work, as you have to keep up with
> every little change.

yes but they did it in the past, was it at that point in time easier?

> The websites that are making money on advertising probably don't have
> much incentive to not break access methods that effectively bypass their
> income.

yes so conzentrate first on the pages who arent owned by unmoralic
companies, I guess slashdot could be such site, and also something like
phoronix.com should be stable enough taht not all 2 days web interface change.

that does not work against addblocks too, so thats no real answer if
they cant hinder the 90% people which use adblocks they will not care
about the 1% emacs users.

And another thing I get that nobody takes the time to support 100
differently random sites, that change here and there, but as example
with wordpress blog feature u would have one module for 99% of the blogs
so u had to support only one modul. Or some forum types I would even
have a use case for MyBB Forums, such software does only get a patch
every 1000 years so it would be also easy to support and u would support
thousends of sites with one modul.

> Oh, and people who use such systems are probably not the most
> forgiving/grateful people you can find. I suspect they are likely to
> bitch and moan, rather than do some work to solve the problem
> themselves.

Sorry dont take a bit of trolling from me personal, its just a good
technic to get some reactions / answers. And also to release some
frustration this garbage browsers generate onto everybody.

> 99% of the net population think it is good enough/don't care?

Most of the time there are no alternatives, so they only have the choice
to not write in forums or use that web ui, or do u have some data that
shows that people are happy or dont care about that issue, that some
people that are no developers what should be 90% dont do something about
it, doesnt mean they dont care about it, they just dont care so much
about it that they make a diploma in computer science or at least invest
100 hours to learn the skills to do that, if not more.

> Someone recently suggested that apps were nice for corporations like
> that because you can do anything with the users data, where browsers
> have at least some amount of user-centric protection.

Hmm, still both exists, facebook webinterface for mobile and the app
same with twitter, so not evil companies forced their users to use
these apps, the users like it better. So they do care, at least enough
to install and setup apps 10 minutes.

But if u messure how much users care, u should maybe shut down gnus too,
because 99% of the users dont care about gnus. Or emacs, 99% of the
people wordwide dont use emacs. its not always a question of the
quantity, also about the quality.

 
> I can speculate on why they were removed, if you really want: The code
> did not work anymore, and nobody was interested enough in the
> functionality to step up and fix it.

I just cant belive that all my problems are special to me, we have 7
Billion people on the world, so am I really the only person with that
problem.

Like u said tapatalk is proprietary and facebook app too so its no real
option, and u have the problem not fully solved too, because each apps
works slithly different.

> Maybe people interested in slashdot comments are more interested in
> ranting than doing work fixing code?

Lol normaly I dont use slashdot, it seemed to me only the most common
news site for technical people, and there was a backend.

> Maybe the answer is to spend the time doing something else? :-)

Maybe not, do u not comment on political stuff never when somebody
trolls u dont answer to him? :)

I just dont see mailing lists a complete replacement for news sites. But
if you say taht gnus users only use mailing lists and never open news
sites and never comment on youtube videos, I search on gwene or gmane if
I found there some newsgroups where I can answer to current news and try
to use them.

just looked again u cant answer to newsticker mailing lists... from
gwene or gmene, so we are back to tv time where u only get oneway brain
washing tv without possibility to argue against it, so that others have
achange to read the througth.

>   Best regards,
>

Stefan


p.s. I just find it odd that gnus has regressions, is it a dying project
taht each day has less users or do people nowadays not do such stuff that
they could do in the past with gnus with another newsreader, or did they
all quit using emacs?

at least we get now in emacs 24.4 a modern textbased browser maybe with
that some forum modules re appear.


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Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Adam Sjøgren]

Stefan Huchler <stefan.huchler@mail.de> writes:

>> Webscraping forum-sites is a lot of work, as you have to keep up with
>> every little change.

> yes but they did it in the past, was it at that point in time easier?

I would guess interest faded.

> And another thing I get that nobody takes the time to support 100
> differently random sites, that change here and there, but as example
> with wordpress blog feature u would have one module for 99% of the blogs
> so u had to support only one modul. Or some forum types I would even
> have a use case for MyBB Forums, such software does only get a patch
> every 1000 years so it would be also easy to support and u would support
> thousends of sites with one modul.

Cool! It sounds really easy, when you put it like that. Have you started
working on this module yet? You seem really keen on it. Be sure to share
it with the world, when you've got it working!

> Sorry dont take a bit of trolling from me personal, its just a good
> technic to get some reactions / answers. And also to release some
> frustration this garbage browsers generate onto everybody.

It is also a good method to get people to dismiss you as a kook.

> But if u messure how much users care, u should maybe shut down gnus too,
> because 99% of the users dont care about gnus. Or emacs, 99% of the
> people wordwide dont use emacs. its not always a question of the
> quantity, also about the quality.

Gnus and Emacs will continue to exist as long as there are people
willing to do the work it takes to keep them alive.

Nobody wanted to do that for the bitrotten modules you so long for.

It is no more complicated than that, really.

> I just cant belive that all my problems are special to me, we have 7
> Billion people on the world, so am I really the only person with that
> problem.

Well, the number of people who were willing to do the work to keep those
two backends working was zero.

And that number includes you :-)

> Like u said tapatalk is proprietary

I never said such a thing - I had never heard about "tapatalk" until you
started talking about it. I still don't know what it is, and I couldn't
care less.

> Maybe not, do u not comment on political stuff never when somebody
> trolls u dont answer to him? :)

I have been known to throw trolls a bad apple or two. Like now.

> I just dont see mailing lists a complete replacement for news sites.

Cool. Nobody said that they were that.

> But if you say taht gnus users only use mailing lists and never open
> news sites and never comment on youtube videos,

I never said such a thing. Please refrain for putting words in my mouth.

> so we are back to tv time where u only get oneway brain washing tv
> without possibility to argue against it, so that others have achange
> to read the througth.

And what are you doing about it?

> p.s. I just find it odd that gnus has regressions,

Why do you find that odd? Show me some software that never has
regressions.

(Removal of a non-working feature that nobody wants to fix is not a
regression, by the way. That is simply maintenance.)

> is it a dying project taht each day has less users or do people
> nowadays not do such stuff that they could do in the past with gnus
> with another newsreader, or did they all quit using emacs?

As long as somebody is interested enough in the code to keep it working,
it will live on.

That is one of the beautiful things about Free Software, I think.

> at least we get now in emacs 24.4 a modern textbased browser maybe with
> that some forum modules re appear.

Oh, and what browser might that be?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "It's my chainsaw                                            Adam Sjøgren
  Division is mine"                                      asjo@koldfront.dk


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Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Stefan Huchler]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> I would guess interest faded.

for forums there exist tapatalk so some people are still interested in
not using garbage browsers for such tasks, even a company probably earns
much money with that software.

> Cool! It sounds really easy, when you put it like that. Have you started
> working on this module yet? You seem really keen on it. Be sure to share
> it with the world, when you've got it working!

So u critisize me for trolling, then u troll 10 times more than I do,
that makes sense.

> It is also a good method to get people to dismiss you as a kook.

see last sentence thats true for u then too.



> Nobody wanted to do that for the bitrotten modules you so long for.
>
> It is no more complicated than that, really.
>

So u KNOW that? or u just GUESS GUESS GUESS around wildly or did u read
every forum posts on taht topic did u scan the internet for every
newsreader and other stuff?

I know and admit happily that I dont know all, so I ask if somebody else
knows something, I learned u dont know anything about my topic, good for
u if nobody else answers in 2-3 days, ok there is maybe really no
solution except doing something for myself or live with it. But because
I use gnus sinse a few months and maybe emacs since a year, I ask here
because I thought thats the point of this forums for people to ask
stuff. aka get support.

BTW I did never tell somebody to develop it for me or something else, I
just tried to get answers to facts that make no sense to me, again it
makes no sense to remove a big feature without a good reason from a
software. So maybe somebody else then u that dont have to guess why that
is stumbles over this post and gives a real answer.

>
> Well, the number of people who were willing to do the work to keep those
> two backends working was zero.

So u know that for a fact? u are a gnus developer?

>
> I have been known to throw trolls a bad apple or two. Like now.

so when I troll I am a troll and when u troll u throw apples ok.

> And what are you doing about it?

First I check if somebody else solved this problem before because I am
not stupid and dont want to reinvent the wheel again and again.

> Why do you find that odd? Show me some software that never has
> regressions.

But they have regression mostly out of a mistake, they dont explizitly
commit regressions most of the time.

>
> Oh, and what browser might that be?

eww:

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/eww


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Re: What happened to nnslashdot and nnultimate

[Thien-Thi Nguyen]

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() Stefan Huchler <stefan.huchler@mail.de>
() Fri, 25 Jul 2014 22:01:21 +0200

   > And what are you doing about it?

   First I check if somebody else solved this
   problem before because I am not stupid and dont
   want to reinvent the wheel again and again.

Why not?  Maybe the wheel you reinvent will be more
suited than previously (re-)invented wheels and
thus stay a"round" longer (yuk yuk).  :-D

I think what people are trying to tell you is that
screen-scraping is a slog and maintaining programs
that screen-scrape is doubly (or triply) so, to the
extent that you end up going from "big feature" to
"big PITA" to "big relief" when the suffering ends.

That is the real answer.  That is the real wheel.

-- 
Thien-Thi Nguyen
   GPG key: 4C807502
   (if you're human and you know it)
      read my lisp: (responsep (questions 'technical)
                               (not (via 'mailing-list)))
                     => nil

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