Synchronizing multiple computers

Synchronizing multiple computers

[Martin Geisler]

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Hello everybody,

I'm a very happy Gnus user, but there is one thing that I still don't
know how to achieve: I use Gnus at two computers to access mail and
news, but when I go from one computer to another, Gnus does not know
which posts I have read on the other.

The mail is stored on an IMAP server, so those messages are correctly
marked as read when I enter a group.

Is there a way to synchronize the read newsgroups messages too? My home
computer is not always online, but the other is always running.

Thanks for any advice!

-- 
Martin Geisler

VIFF (Virtual Ideal Functionality Framework) brings easy and efficient
SMPC (Secure Multi-Party Computation) to Python. See: http://viff.dk/.

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Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[David]

Martin Geisler <mg@daimi.au.dk> writes:
> Is there a way to synchronize the read newsgroups messages too? My home
> computer is not always online, but the other is always running.

See this page on the emacswiki:

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusSync

-David

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Jan 28 2008, David wrote:

> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusSync
| To make things more concise, I like to put all files I want to sync
| in one central Gnus-directory. Create a directory ~/Gnus and put the
| following into your .gnus right at the beginning:
| 
| (setq gnus-home-directory "~/Gnus"
|       gnus-startup-file "~/Gnus/.newsrc"
|       message-directory "~/Gnus/Mail"
|       gnus-directory "~/Gnus/News"
|       gnus-article-save-directory "~/Gnus/News"
|       message-auto-save-directory "~/Gnus/Mail/drafts"
|       gnus-cache-directory "~/Gnus/News/Cache"
|       gnus-kill-files-directory "~/Gnus/News"
|       mail-source-directory "~/Gnus/Mail" 
| ; If you use the registry
|       gnus-registry-cache-file "~/Gnus/.gnus.registry.eld"
| ; If you use gnus-agent
|       gnus-agent-directory "~/Gnus/agent"
[...]
| I’m sure some of these are redundant since they are generated from
| others, 

,----[ (info "(gnus)Various Various") ]
| `gnus-home-directory'
|      All Gnus file and directory variables will be initialized from this
|      variable, which defaults to `~/'.
`----

,----[ (info "(message)Various Message Variables") ]
| `message-directory'
|      Directory used by many mailey things.  The default is `~/Mail/'.
|      All other mail file variables are derived from `message-directory'.
`----

| but I guess it does no harm to set them all explicitly.

It's confusing and error-prone, IMHO.

| rsync -e "ssh -l name" -auvzp workcomputer:./Gnus ~/.

Only ancient versions of rsync don't use ssh by default.  So this
could be...

$ rsync -auvzp name@workcomputer:./Gnus ~/.

| (defun DE-sync-gnus (arg)
|   (interactive)
|   (let ((bufname (get-buffer-create "*GNUS SYNC*")))
|     (switch-to-buffer bufname)
|     (call-process "/usr/local/bin/gnus-sync-script" nil bufname t arg)))

I'd suggest to get rid of the shell script and do it in elisp[1].
Within Emacs, the values of `gnus-directory', `message-directory',
`gnus-startup-file', ... are available, you can use them in the sync
function.  I'd guess that you don't even need to bother about frobbing
`gnus-home-directory' and `message-directory'.  Just rsync ~/.newsrc*,
~/Mail and ~/News.  Or am I missing something?
 
| (add-hook 'gnus-before-startup-hook (lambda () (DE-sync-gnus "fromwork")))
| (add-hook 'gnus-after-exiting-gnus-hook (lambda () (DE-sync-gnus "towork")))

Nice idea.  Maybe adding a prompt "Do you want to sync from ... to
...?" would make sense.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[David]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> ,----[ (info "(gnus)Various Various") ]
> | `gnus-home-directory'
> |      All Gnus file and directory variables will be initialized from this
> |      variable, which defaults to `~/'.
> `----
>
> ,----[ (info "(message)Various Message Variables") ]
> | `message-directory'
> |      Directory used by many mailey things.  The default is `~/Mail/'.
> |      All other mail file variables are derived from `message-directory'.
> `----

> > | but I guess it does no harm to set them all explicitly.
>
> It's confusing and error-prone, IMHO.

I remember I was confused that there exists 'gnus-home-directory' as
well as 'gnus-directory' where both doc strings more or less say that
everything will be derived from them. I see now that in gnus.el
gnus-directory is set to gnus-home-directory (except when the SAVEDIR
environment variable is set...). In gnus-registry.el,
'gnus-dribble-directory' (which, granted, is usually nil) has precedence
over 'gnus-home-directory' for setting 'gnus-registry-cache-file'. OK, I
suppose I'm nitpicking here...

> | rsync -e "ssh -l name" -auvzp workcomputer:./Gnus ~/.
>
> Only ancient versions of rsync don't use ssh by default. 

OK.

> I'd suggest to get rid of the shell script and do it in elisp[1].

Yes. This setup 'evolved' before I became more familiar with elisp...

> Within Emacs, the values of `gnus-directory', `message-directory',
> `gnus-startup-file', ... are available, you can use them in the sync
> function.  I'd guess that you don't even need to bother about frobbing
> `gnus-home-directory' and `message-directory'.  Just rsync ~/.newsrc*,
> ~/Mail and ~/News.  Or am I missing something?

Since I guess I am only using ~10% of Gnus' functionality I wouldn't
know for sure. I guess syncing the registry file isn't really necessary?

> Nice idea.  Maybe adding a prompt "Do you want to sync from ... to
> ...?" would make sense.

Yes. I'll revise that page as soon as I have time. Thanks for your
comments.

-David

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[David]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> I'd suggest to get rid of the shell script and do it in elisp[1].
> Within Emacs, the values of `gnus-directory', `message-directory',
> `gnus-startup-file', ... are available, you can use them in the sync
> function.  I'd guess that you don't even need to bother about frobbing
> `gnus-home-directory' and `message-directory'.  Just rsync ~/.newsrc*,
> ~/Mail and ~/News.  Or am I missing something?

I've revised the wiki page and posted new code which works without a
shell script:

http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusSync

Comments/Corrections are appreciated (or simply edit the page - it's a
wiki, after all :-) ).

-David

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Gour]

>>>>> "David" == David  <de_bb@arcor.de> writes:

Hi David!

Thank a lot for your 'sync' code. I use it with pleasure to sync between
laptop & desktop machines.

David> I've revised the wiki page and posted new code which works
David> without a shell script:

Iirc, I had some problem when tried 'updated version which rm-ed some
'directory' lines , i.e. rev 4 --> 5.

Will try sync-ng and report back ;)

Sincerely,
Gour


-- 

Gour  | Zagreb, Croatia  | GPG key: C6E7162D
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Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Gour]

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>>>>> "David" == David  <de_bb@arcor.de> writes:

Hi!

David> I've revised the wiki page and posted new code which works
David> without a shell script:

David> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusSync

David> Comments/Corrections are appreciated (or simply edit the page -
David> it's a wiki, after all :-) ).

Thanks a lot for this script.

It look I have some problems with it using ~/Gnus as my home directory.

I also put mairix database and newsticker's cache file under ~/Gnus and
added them to 'my-gnussync-extra-files' list, but it looks they are
'synced' in my ~/ and not in ~/Gnus.

I'm still very new with elisp, but will try to take a closer look.

Sincerely,
Gour





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Gour  | Zagreb, Croatia  | GPG key: C6E7162D
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Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[David]

Gour <gour@mail.inet.hr> writes:
> I also put mairix database and newsticker's cache file under ~/Gnus and
> added them to 'my-gnussync-extra-files' list, but it looks they are
> 'synced' in my ~/ and not in ~/Gnus.

Yes, you're right. I've updated the code to work correctly with
subdirectories (hopefully...). Note that you will need at least rsync
2.6.7. or newer for this to work. Please make sure you have backups
before testing this code, just in case...

-David

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Martin Geisler]

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David <de_bb@arcor.de> writes:

> Martin Geisler <mg@daimi.au.dk> writes:
>> Is there a way to synchronize the read newsgroups messages too? My home
>> computer is not always online, but the other is always running.
>
> See this page on the emacswiki:
>
> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusSync

Thanks for the pointer!

I normally keep my Gnus running at all times on my work computer. Is it
safe to copy files back and forth in that case?

As I understand it, Gnus saves its changes in the dribble file which is
saved into the .newsrc.eld file at shutdown. I don't shutdown Gnus at
work, so will I be able to see the chances in the .newsrc.eld file?

-- 
Martin Geisler

VIFF (Virtual Ideal Functionality Framework) brings easy and efficient
SMPC (Secure Multi-Party Computation) to Python. See: http://viff.dk/.

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Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[David]

Martin Geisler <mg@daimi.au.dk> writes:
> I normally keep my Gnus running at all times on my work computer. Is it
> safe to copy files back and forth in that case?

No.

> As I understand it, Gnus saves its changes in the dribble file which is
> saved into the .newsrc.eld file at shutdown. I don't shutdown Gnus at
> work, so will I be able to see the chances in the .newsrc.eld file?

Well, is there a special reason why you would have to keep Gnus running
at work in the first place? Of course, it also happens to me that I
simply forget to shut it down, but you can do that remotely via ssh
using emacsclient.

-David

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Martin Geisler]

David <de_bb@arcor.de> writes:

> Martin Geisler <mg@daimi.au.dk> writes:
>> I normally keep my Gnus running at all times on my work computer.
>> Is it safe to copy files back and forth in that case?
>
> No.

I thought so... :-)

>> As I understand it, Gnus saves its changes in the dribble file
>> which is saved into the .newsrc.eld file at shutdown. I don't
>> shutdown Gnus at work, so will I be able to see the chances in the
>> .newsrc.eld file?
>
> Well, is there a special reason why you would have to keep Gnus
> running at work in the first place? Of course, it also happens to me
> that I simply forget to shut it down, but you can do that remotely
> via ssh using emacsclient.

Well, I guess I'm just lazy :-) -- I like it when Gnus is ready in the
morning without having to login to the IMAP server.

As for shutting it down remotely via emacsclient, does that not
require an Emacs with the multi-tty patch? I'm running Emacs 21.4.1.

And if I login remotely, then I might as well use that Emacs instance
in the first place (except that it might go a little slower) :-)

-- 
Martin Geisler

VIFF (Virtual Ideal Functionality Framework) brings easy and efficient
SMPC (Secure Multi-Party Computation) to Python. See: http://viff.dk/.

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Stefan Monnier]

> I normally keep my Gnus running at all times on my work computer. Is it
> safe to copy files back and forth in that case?

No.


        Stefan

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Martin Geisler]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> I normally keep my Gnus running at all times on my work computer. Is it
>> safe to copy files back and forth in that case?
>
> No.

Right, it would also have been quite impressive if it was possible :-)

I've just looked (briefly) at the .newsrc-dribble file, and it looks
like it is full of what one could hope is idempotent commands.

If that is the case, would it then be possible for me to transfer my
activity at home to Gnus at work by appending my dribble file from
home to the one at work?

Or if appending is not good enough, then one might even be able to
merge the two files so that (seen (100 . 200)) and (seen (50 . 150))
would be merged to (seen (50 . 200)).

That would of course assume that I have named my servers the same in
both places, but that is no problem.

-- 
Martin Geisler

VIFF (Virtual Ideal Functionality Framework) brings easy and efficient
SMPC (Secure Multi-Party Computation) to Python. See: http://viff.dk/.

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Reiner Steib]

On Wed, Jan 30 2008, Martin Geisler wrote:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>>> I normally keep my Gnus running at all times on my work computer. Is it
>>> safe to copy files back and forth in that case?
>>
>> No.
>
> Right, it would also have been quite impressive if it was possible :-)

I'd guess that pressing calling `gnus-group-save-newsrc' (`s' in the
Group buffer) before leaving (or via a timer) and
`gnus-read-newsrc-file' after the sync might do the trick.

> I've just looked (briefly) at the .newsrc-dribble file, and it looks
> like it is full of what one could hope is idempotent commands.
>
> If that is the case, would it then be possible for me to transfer my
> activity at home to Gnus at work by appending my dribble file from
> home to the one at work?
>
> Or if appending is not good enough, then one might even be able to
> merge the two files so that (seen (100 . 200)) and (seen (50 . 150))
> would be merged to (seen (50 . 200)).

I guess there would be conflicts.

> That would of course assume that I have named my servers the same in
> both places, but that is no problem.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Martin Geisler]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> On Wed, Jan 30 2008, Martin Geisler wrote:
>
>> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>>
>>>> I normally keep my Gnus running at all times on my work computer. Is it
>>>> safe to copy files back and forth in that case?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Right, it would also have been quite impressive if it was possible :-)
>
> I'd guess that pressing calling `gnus-group-save-newsrc' (`s' in the
> Group buffer) before leaving (or via a timer) and
> `gnus-read-newsrc-file' after the sync might do the trick.

Yeah, using those functions sounds promissing! I'll see if I can get
something going. Thanks for the input.

-- 
Martin Geisler

VIFF (Virtual Ideal Functionality Framework) brings easy and efficient
SMPC (Secure Multi-Party Computation) to Python. See: http://viff.dk/.

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Gour]

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>>>>> "Martin" == Martin Geisler <mg@daimi.au.dk> writes:

Martin> Yeah, using those functions sounds promissing! I'll see if I can
Martin> get something going. Thanks for the input.

I did setup according to: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/GnusSync
and ot works great syncing news-part between desktop & laptop.

For email sync, I use offlineimap.

Sincerely,
Gour





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Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Johan Bockgård]

Martin Geisler <mg@daimi.au.dk> writes:

> I've just looked (briefly) at the .newsrc-dribble file, and it looks
> like it is full of what one could hope is idempotent commands.
>
> If that is the case, would it then be possible for me to transfer my
> activity at home to Gnus at work by appending my dribble file from
> home to the one at work?

Would this work?

   (info "(gnus) Slave Gnusae")

-- 
Johan Bockgård

Re: Synchronizing multiple computers

[Martin Geisler]

bojohan+news@dd.chalmers.se (Johan Bockgård) writes:

> Martin Geisler <mg@daimi.au.dk> writes:
>
>> I've just looked (briefly) at the .newsrc-dribble file, and it
>> looks like it is full of what one could hope is idempotent
>> commands.
>>
>> If that is the case, would it then be possible for me to transfer
>> my activity at home to Gnus at work by appending my dribble file
>> from home to the one at work?
>
> Would this work?
>
>    (info "(gnus) Slave Gnusae")

I don't know, I'll have to look into it. Thanks for the all the inputs
I have received in this thread!

-- 
Martin Geisler

VIFF (Virtual Ideal Functionality Framework) brings easy and efficient
SMPC (Secure Multi-Party Computation) to Python. See: http://viff.dk/.