Gnus Multiple Roles

Gnus Multiple Roles

[B.V. Raghav]

Hi,

I have been successfully using alpine for a long time now. While
switching to gnus, I feel that the functionality of alpine that I find
missing are:

1. Multiple Roles. The capability to send from any smtp server I
prefer, not necessarily automated.

I found this excellent library --- smtpmail-multi [
https://github.com/vapniks/smtpmail-multi ]. However, the problem is,
that I was not able to automate the reply's with original message
having a specific header.

The setting was:
(setq smtpmail-multi-associations
      '((("To" . "help-gnu-emacs.*") bvraghav\.com)
	))

Further I could not find a ready way to choose a specific smtp server
setting.

Is there a way with the library, or a simple(r) recipe, that I can
adapt to my needs, in order to fulfil the requirements.

-- 
bvraghav

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Sivaram Neelakantan]

On Tue, Dec 08 2015,B.V. Raghav wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have been successfully using alpine for a long time now. While
> switching to gnus, I feel that the functionality of alpine that I find
> missing are:
>

[snipped 8 lines]

> The setting was:
> (setq smtpmail-multi-associations
>       '((("To" . "help-gnu-emacs.*") bvraghav\.com)
> 	))
>
> Further I could not find a ready way to choose a specific smtp server
> setting.
>
> Is there a way with the library, or a simple(r) recipe, that I can
> adapt to my needs, in order to fulfil the requirements.

Please take a look at Gnus Posting Styles in the manual, it might be
what you're looking for

 sivaram
 -- 

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[B.V. Raghav]

I read the Posting Styles, many times earlier, and albeit a little
closely once again.

Posting styles can be a list of (nested) cons cell with car representing
attribute and cdr representing value, i.e. (attr value) [OR (attr :flag
value) to be more specific]

> The attribute name can be one of:

>    • ‘signature’
>    • ‘signature-file’
>    • ‘x-face-file’
>    • ‘address’, overriding ‘user-mail-address’
>    • ‘name’, overriding ‘(user-full-name)’
>    • ‘body’

Also attr can be a string representing a mail header. I further read
an example in the manual with the following pair in the list:

> ("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.example.org 587")



-- 
(B.V. Raghav)

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Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Jeffrey DeLeo]

With posting styles, you can specify things like which email address to
use, Organization, etc for a specific group, or topic. On that group or
topic in gnus, type "G c", which runs the command "gnus-group-customize".

Look for "Posting style", you can insert different things like address,
Organization, etc there.

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[B.V. Raghav]

Jeffrey DeLeo <JeffreyDeLeo@gmail.com> writes:

> With posting styles, you can specify things like which email address to
> use, Organization, etc for a specific group, or topic. On that group or
> topic in gnus, type "G c", which runs the command "gnus-group-customize".
>
> Look for "Posting style", you can insert different things like address,
> Organization, etc there.
>
>

Posting styles do allow me to change all the headers. What I actually
want to do is use a different smtp server all together. For example,
when I reply to a mail from bvr@abc.tld, I want to use the server
smtp.abc.tld, and on the other hand when I reply to a mail from
bvr@xyz.tld, i want to use the server smtp.xyz.tld

Here is the example posting style:

(setq gnus-posting-styles
      '((".*"
         (name "B.V. Raghav")
         (address "bvraghav@abc.tld")
         (organization "Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur")
         (signature-file "~/.signature.gnus")
         ("Gcc" "INBOX.Sent")
         )
        ("^\\(To\\|C[Cc]\\):.*bvraghav@xyz.tld")
         (name "B.V. Raghav")
         (address "bvraghav@xyz.tld")
         (organization "XYZ P Ltd")
         (signature-file "~/signature.xyz")
         ("Gcc" "nnimap+xyz:INBOX.Sent")
         (("X-Message-SMTP-Method" "smtp smtp.xyz.tld 587")
         )))

This provides me all the effect that I want, namely:
* The message is addressed from the specific email address
* I can even customize the "Reply-To" header
* There is a copy in my IMAP

BUT, there is a catch,

Received: from think.bvr.lan (unknown [172.20.188.59])
	(Authenticated sender: bvraghav)
	by smtp.abc.tld (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 2511248
	for <addressed@somedomain.tld>; Mon, 30 Nov 2015 11:05:12 +0530 (IST)

This header, nor any of the other subsequent or antecedent server
signatures in the header contain a trace of "xyz.tld".

1. I think that should qualify enough for spamming, with some
   servers. (Although I am actually not) 
2. At least this is a reason enough for not inboxing at times.
3. Even otherwise, is this not called imposting?

-- 
(B.V. Raghav)

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Jeffrey DeLeo]

bvraghav@iitk.ac.in (B.V. Raghav) writes:

> Posting styles do allow me to change all the headers. What I actually
> want to do is use a different smtp server all together. For example,
> when I reply to a mail from bvr@abc.tld, I want to use the server
> smtp.abc.tld, and on the other hand when I reply to a mail from
> bvr@xyz.tld, i want to use the server smtp.xyz.tld

I understand. I don't do this in emacs; on my linux system I run postfix
to handle mail. Postfix has been configured to use different smtp
servers depending on the email address used.

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Eric Abrahamsen]

bvraghav@iitk.ac.in (B.V. Raghav) writes:

> Hi,
>
> I have been successfully using alpine for a long time now. While
> switching to gnus, I feel that the functionality of alpine that I find
> missing are:
>
> 1. Multiple Roles. The capability to send from any smtp server I
> prefer, not necessarily automated.
>
> I found this excellent library --- smtpmail-multi [
> https://github.com/vapniks/smtpmail-multi ]. However, the problem is,
> that I was not able to automate the reply's with original message
> having a specific header.
>
> The setting was:
> (setq smtpmail-multi-associations
>       '((("To" . "help-gnu-emacs.*") bvraghav\.com)
> 	))
>
> Further I could not find a ready way to choose a specific smtp server
> setting.
>
> Is there a way with the library, or a simple(r) recipe, that I can
> adapt to my needs, in order to fulfil the requirements.

Have you looked at this:
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MultipleSMTPAccounts

You can use posting styles to set a X-SMTP-Server header in your
outgoing message, and then there's a code snippet there for using the
right server depending on the value of the header.

Hope that's what you were after...

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Rasmus]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> bvraghav@iitk.ac.in (B.V. Raghav) writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have been successfully using alpine for a long time now. While
>> switching to gnus, I feel that the functionality of alpine that I find
>> missing are:
>>
>> 1. Multiple Roles. The capability to send from any smtp server I
>> prefer, not necessarily automated.
>>
>> I found this excellent library --- smtpmail-multi [
>> https://github.com/vapniks/smtpmail-multi ]. However, the problem is,
>> that I was not able to automate the reply's with original message
>> having a specific header.
>>
>> The setting was:
>> (setq smtpmail-multi-associations
>>       '((("To" . "help-gnu-emacs.*") bvraghav\.com)
>> 	))
>>
>> Further I could not find a ready way to choose a specific smtp server
>> setting.
>>
>> Is there a way with the library, or a simple(r) recipe, that I can
>> adapt to my needs, in order to fulfil the requirements.
>
> Have you looked at this:
> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MultipleSMTPAccounts
>
> You can use posting styles to set a X-SMTP-Server header in your
> outgoing message, and then there's a code snippet there for using the
> right server depending on the value of the header.

Wouldn't X-Message-SMTP-Method be easier?

Rasmus

-- 
Hvor meget poesi tror De kommer ud af et glas isvand?

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> bvraghav@iitk.ac.in (B.V. Raghav) writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I have been successfully using alpine for a long time now. While
>>> switching to gnus, I feel that the functionality of alpine that I find
>>> missing are:
>>>
>>> 1. Multiple Roles. The capability to send from any smtp server I
>>> prefer, not necessarily automated.
>>>
>>> I found this excellent library --- smtpmail-multi [
>>> https://github.com/vapniks/smtpmail-multi ]. However, the problem is,
>>> that I was not able to automate the reply's with original message
>>> having a specific header.
>>>
>>> The setting was:
>>> (setq smtpmail-multi-associations
>>>       '((("To" . "help-gnu-emacs.*") bvraghav\.com)
>>> 	))
>>>
>>> Further I could not find a ready way to choose a specific smtp server
>>> setting.
>>>
>>> Is there a way with the library, or a simple(r) recipe, that I can
>>> adapt to my needs, in order to fulfil the requirements.
>>
>> Have you looked at this:
>> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MultipleSMTPAccounts
>>
>> You can use posting styles to set a X-SMTP-Server header in your
>> outgoing message, and then there's a code snippet there for using the
>> right server depending on the value of the header.
>
> Wouldn't X-Message-SMTP-Method be easier?

To be honest, I don't really understand the difference. I use msmtp, so
the header stuff is unfamiliar to me. What's the difference in how they
work?

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Rasmus]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>
>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>
>>> bvraghav@iitk.ac.in (B.V. Raghav) writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I have been successfully using alpine for a long time now. While
>>>> switching to gnus, I feel that the functionality of alpine that I find
>>>> missing are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Multiple Roles. The capability to send from any smtp server I
>>>> prefer, not necessarily automated.
>>>>
>>>> I found this excellent library --- smtpmail-multi [
>>>> https://github.com/vapniks/smtpmail-multi ]. However, the problem is,
>>>> that I was not able to automate the reply's with original message
>>>> having a specific header.
>>>>
>>>> The setting was:
>>>> (setq smtpmail-multi-associations
>>>>       '((("To" . "help-gnu-emacs.*") bvraghav\.com)
>>>> 	))
>>>>
>>>> Further I could not find a ready way to choose a specific smtp server
>>>> setting.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way with the library, or a simple(r) recipe, that I can
>>>> adapt to my needs, in order to fulfil the requirements.
>>>
>>> Have you looked at this:
>>> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MultipleSMTPAccounts
>>>
>>> You can use posting styles to set a X-SMTP-Server header in your
>>> outgoing message, and then there's a code snippet there for using the
>>> right server depending on the value of the header.
>>
>> Wouldn't X-Message-SMTP-Method be easier?
>
> To be honest, I don't really understand the difference. I use msmtp, so
> the header stuff is unfamiliar to me. What's the difference in how they
> work?

X-Message-SMTP-Method is support "out of the box" and can be used to
configure SMTP pretty effortlessly.  I haven't tried Gnus with external
SMTP programs for eons, so I cannot speak towards msmtp.

Rasmus

-- 
Evidence suggests Snowden used a powerful tool called monospaced fonts

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>>
>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> bvraghav@iitk.ac.in (B.V. Raghav) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been successfully using alpine for a long time now. While
>>>>> switching to gnus, I feel that the functionality of alpine that I find
>>>>> missing are:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Multiple Roles. The capability to send from any smtp server I
>>>>> prefer, not necessarily automated.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found this excellent library --- smtpmail-multi [
>>>>> https://github.com/vapniks/smtpmail-multi ]. However, the problem is,
>>>>> that I was not able to automate the reply's with original message
>>>>> having a specific header.
>>>>>
>>>>> The setting was:
>>>>> (setq smtpmail-multi-associations
>>>>>       '((("To" . "help-gnu-emacs.*") bvraghav\.com)
>>>>> 	))
>>>>>
>>>>> Further I could not find a ready way to choose a specific smtp server
>>>>> setting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a way with the library, or a simple(r) recipe, that I can
>>>>> adapt to my needs, in order to fulfil the requirements.
>>>>
>>>> Have you looked at this:
>>>> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MultipleSMTPAccounts
>>>>
>>>> You can use posting styles to set a X-SMTP-Server header in your
>>>> outgoing message, and then there's a code snippet there for using the
>>>> right server depending on the value of the header.
>>>
>>> Wouldn't X-Message-SMTP-Method be easier?
>>
>> To be honest, I don't really understand the difference. I use msmtp, so
>> the header stuff is unfamiliar to me. What's the difference in how they
>> work?
>
> X-Message-SMTP-Method is support "out of the box" and can be used to
> configure SMTP pretty effortlessly.  I haven't tried Gnus with external
> SMTP programs for eons, so I cannot speak towards msmtp.

Ah, interesting. Maybe it's time to let Gnus talk directly to the server
(though the msmtp hack also on that wiki page still works just fine).

That would mean relying entirely on posting styles, though, which is a
bit of pain because I really like being able to just hit "m" in the
*Group* buffer. It's never quite felt right to me that I still have to
compose messages "from" a group, with "C-u a". Anyway, not a great big
deal, either way.

Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Rasmus]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Ah, interesting. Maybe it's time to let Gnus talk directly to the server
> (though the msmtp hack also on that wiki page still works just fine).
>
> That would mean relying entirely on posting styles, though, which is a
> bit of pain because I really like being able to just hit "m" in the
> *Group* buffer. It's never quite felt right to me that I still have to
> compose messages "from" a group, with "C-u a". Anyway, not a great big
> deal, either way.

I have a hack that I use which gives a menu of profiles based on the
posting styles.

        https://gitlab.com/snippets/6486
        
It is sort of elaborate, and one day I, or someone else, need to add this
to Gnus.  It’s missing.  The issue is that it’s not quite in the spirit of
posting styles as posting styles should probably be complete.  But I guess
you could add a (profile-name NAME) to the posting style which would
automatically make the posting style available via some menu.

Rasmus

-- 
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Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Ah, interesting. Maybe it's time to let Gnus talk directly to the server
>> (though the msmtp hack also on that wiki page still works just fine).
>>
>> That would mean relying entirely on posting styles, though, which is a
>> bit of pain because I really like being able to just hit "m" in the
>> *Group* buffer. It's never quite felt right to me that I still have to
>> compose messages "from" a group, with "C-u a". Anyway, not a great big
>> deal, either way.
>
> I have a hack that I use which gives a menu of profiles based on the
> posting styles.
>
>         https://gitlab.com/snippets/6486
>         
> It is sort of elaborate, and one day I, or someone else, need to add this
> to Gnus.  It’s missing.  The issue is that it’s not quite in the spirit of
> posting styles as posting styles should probably be complete.  But I guess
> you could add a (profile-name NAME) to the posting style which would
> automatically make the posting style available via some menu.

I've always meant to look at gnus-pers and/or gnus-alias, as well --
they seem to be solutions for this problem exactly.


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Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Rasmus]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>
>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>
>>> Ah, interesting. Maybe it's time to let Gnus talk directly to the server
>>> (though the msmtp hack also on that wiki page still works just fine).
>>>
>>> That would mean relying entirely on posting styles, though, which is a
>>> bit of pain because I really like being able to just hit "m" in the
>>> *Group* buffer. It's never quite felt right to me that I still have to
>>> compose messages "from" a group, with "C-u a". Anyway, not a great big
>>> deal, either way.
>>
>> I have a hack that I use which gives a menu of profiles based on the
>> posting styles.
>>
>>         https://gitlab.com/snippets/6486
>>         
>> It is sort of elaborate, and one day I, or someone else, need to add this
>> to Gnus.  It’s missing.  The issue is that it’s not quite in the spirit of
>> posting styles as posting styles should probably be complete.  But I guess
>> you could add a (profile-name NAME) to the posting style which would
>> automatically make the posting style available via some menu.
>
> I've always meant to look at gnus-pers and/or gnus-alias, as well --
> they seem to be solutions for this problem exactly.

Whichever one of them I used was an alternative to posting styles.
Nonetheless they might work together.

Rasmus

-- 
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Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:
>>
>>> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Ah, interesting. Maybe it's time to let Gnus talk directly to the server
>>>> (though the msmtp hack also on that wiki page still works just fine).
>>>>
>>>> That would mean relying entirely on posting styles, though, which is a
>>>> bit of pain because I really like being able to just hit "m" in the
>>>> *Group* buffer. It's never quite felt right to me that I still have to
>>>> compose messages "from" a group, with "C-u a". Anyway, not a great big
>>>> deal, either way.
>>>
>>> I have a hack that I use which gives a menu of profiles based on the
>>> posting styles.
>>>
>>>         https://gitlab.com/snippets/6486
>>>         
>>> It is sort of elaborate, and one day I, or someone else, need to add this
>>> to Gnus.  It’s missing.  The issue is that it’s not quite in the spirit of
>>> posting styles as posting styles should probably be complete.  But I guess
>>> you could add a (profile-name NAME) to the posting style which would
>>> automatically make the posting style available via some menu.
>>
>> I've always meant to look at gnus-pers and/or gnus-alias, as well --
>> they seem to be solutions for this problem exactly.
>
> Whichever one of them I used was an alternative to posting styles.
> Nonetheless they might work together.

It does seem like someone ought to write a nice canonical solution to
the problem...

...?

:)


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Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Rasmus]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

>>> I've always meant to look at gnus-pers and/or gnus-alias, as well --
>>> they seem to be solutions for this problem exactly.
>>
>> Whichever one of them I used was an alternative to posting styles.
>> Nonetheless they might work together.
>
> It does seem like someone ought to write a nice canonical solution to
> the problem...
>
> ...?
>
> :)

... Who will go on holiday break earlier?

Perhaps we make a fair deal here, Eric: you move Gnus to eieio and I’ll
handle this?

Rasmus

-- 
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Re: Gnus Multiple Roles

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>>>> I've always meant to look at gnus-pers and/or gnus-alias, as well --
>>>> they seem to be solutions for this problem exactly.
>>>
>>> Whichever one of them I used was an alternative to posting styles.
>>> Nonetheless they might work together.
>>
>> It does seem like someone ought to write a nice canonical solution to
>> the problem...
>>
>> ...?
>>
>> :)
>
> ... Who will go on holiday break earlier?
>
> Perhaps we make a fair deal here, Eric: you move Gnus to eieio and I’ll
> handle this?

Oh sure, that sounds like a reasonable division of labor! ;)


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