Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

Hi,

I use dovecot imapd with both an mbox for INBOX and maildir for other
folders, and I use sieve to split email into maildir folders.

In .gnus.el I have:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
	  '((nnml "mail")
		(nnimap "asdf"
				(nnimap-address "localhost")
				(nnimap-server-port 143)
				(nnimap-stream network))))

and I have left over from before I was using imap:

(setq nnmail-split-methods
      '(("junk" "Subject:.*urgent")
        ...
        ("inbox" "")))

It used to be that messages in my imap inbox were stored in nnimap+asdf:INBOX.

Now, the first time I ran gnus from emacs 23, it moved all messages
from nnimap+asdf:INBOX to nnml+mail:inbox, or in other words it
emptied /var/spool/user, and stored them in nnml+mail:inbox, so my
imap inbox is not empty.

I don't remember if I had a reason to keep the nnml secondary select
method. Should I just remove it and remove the nnmail split methods,
to get it to ignore /var/spool/user and read nnimap+asdf:INBOX
instead?

Also, if I make a copy of my ~/Mail directory that email creates, can
I restore my email from it if I screw something up, i.e. can I use
gnus to read the email from the copied directory and put it back into
my imap store?

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:56:52 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 

FF> I use dovecot imapd with both an mbox for INBOX and maildir for other
FF> folders, and I use sieve to split email into maildir folders.

FF> In .gnus.el I have:

FF> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
FF> 	  '((nnml "mail")
FF> 		(nnimap "asdf"
FF> 				(nnimap-address "localhost")
FF> 				(nnimap-server-port 143)
FF> 				(nnimap-stream network))))

FF> and I have left over from before I was using imap:

FF> (setq nnmail-split-methods
FF>       '(("junk" "Subject:.*urgent")
FF>         ...
FF>         ("inbox" "")))

FF> It used to be that messages in my imap inbox were stored in nnimap+asdf:INBOX.

FF> Now, the first time I ran gnus from emacs 23, it moved all messages
FF> from nnimap+asdf:INBOX to nnml+mail:inbox, or in other words it
FF> emptied /var/spool/user, and stored them in nnml+mail:inbox, so my
FF> imap inbox is not empty.

FF> I don't remember if I had a reason to keep the nnml secondary select
FF> method. Should I just remove it and remove the nnmail split methods,
FF> to get it to ignore /var/spool/user and read nnimap+asdf:INBOX
FF> instead?

FF> Also, if I make a copy of my ~/Mail directory that email creates, can
FF> I restore my email from it if I screw something up, i.e. can I use
FF> gnus to read the email from the copied directory and put it back into
FF> my imap store?

You can set nnimap-split-inbox to something else if you want INBOX to be
left alone.  Then you can keep your nnmail-split-methods.  You can also
specify different (or nil) split rules per nnimap server (see
`nnimap-split-rule') so it won't fall back to nnmail-split-methods IIRC.

You can read mail from any valid directory or file as you'd expect.
Just make a new backend, nnmail or nnmaildir or any other that makes
sense.  Within each backend, you can visit a group and copy or move
articles to another backend+group.

Ted

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:56:52 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 
>
> FF> I use dovecot imapd with both an mbox for INBOX and maildir for other
> FF> folders, and I use sieve to split email into maildir folders.
>
> FF> In .gnus.el I have:
>
> FF> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
> FF> 	  '((nnml "mail")
> FF> 		(nnimap "asdf"
> FF> 				(nnimap-address "localhost")
> FF> 				(nnimap-server-port 143)
> FF> 				(nnimap-stream network))))
>
> FF> and I have left over from before I was using imap:
>
> FF> (setq nnmail-split-methods
> FF>       '(("junk" "Subject:.*urgent")
> FF>         ...
> FF>         ("inbox" "")))
>
> FF> It used to be that messages in my imap inbox were stored in nnimap+asdf:INBOX.
>
> FF> Now, the first time I ran gnus from emacs 23, it moved all messages
> FF> from nnimap+asdf:INBOX to nnml+mail:inbox, or in other words it
> FF> emptied /var/spool/user, and stored them in nnml+mail:inbox, so my
> FF> imap inbox is not empty.
>
> FF> I don't remember if I had a reason to keep the nnml secondary select
> FF> method. Should I just remove it and remove the nnmail split methods,
> FF> to get it to ignore /var/spool/user and read nnimap+asdf:INBOX
> FF> instead?
>
> FF> Also, if I make a copy of my ~/Mail directory that email creates, can
> FF> I restore my email from it if I screw something up, i.e. can I use
> FF> gnus to read the email from the copied directory and put it back into
> FF> my imap store?
>
> You can set nnimap-split-inbox to something else if you want INBOX to be
> left alone.  Then you can keep your nnmail-split-methods.  You can also
> specify different (or nil) split rules per nnimap server (see
> `nnimap-split-rule') so it won't fall back to nnmail-split-methods IIRC.

Okay, nnimap-split-inbox was unset, which I read means it will not do
splitting, which is what I want. I've tried setting it:

(setq nnimap-split-inbox "INBOX")

Then it still emptied my mbox file, but I don't know what it did with
the email.

Since I can't be losing email, I will stick with emacs 22 for a while
I guess, while I try to figure out a way to experiment with this
without losing real email.

> You can read mail from any valid directory or file as you'd expect.
> Just make a new backend, nnmail or nnmaildir or any other that makes
> sense.  Within each backend, you can visit a group and copy or move
> articles to another backend+group.

Thanks.

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:37:23 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 

FF> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:56:52 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 
FF> Now, the first time I ran gnus from emacs 23, it moved all messages
FF> from nnimap+asdf:INBOX to nnml+mail:inbox, or in other words it
FF> emptied /var/spool/user, and stored them in nnml+mail:inbox, so my
FF> imap inbox is not empty.
>> 
>> You can set nnimap-split-inbox to something else if you want INBOX to be
>> left alone.  Then you can keep your nnmail-split-methods.  You can also
>> specify different (or nil) split rules per nnimap server (see
>> `nnimap-split-rule') so it won't fall back to nnmail-split-methods IIRC.

FF> Okay, nnimap-split-inbox was unset, which I read means it will not do
FF> splitting, which is what I want. I've tried setting it:

FF> (setq nnimap-split-inbox "INBOX")

FF> Then it still emptied my mbox file, but I don't know what it did with
FF> the email.

Wait, I'm confused.  Is Gnus emptying the IMAP INBOX folder or something
else ("mbox file")?  You say two different things in your original
post when you say "in other words" so I need you to clarify.

Ted

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:37:23 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 
>
> FF> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>>> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:56:52 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 
> FF> Now, the first time I ran gnus from emacs 23, it moved all messages
> FF> from nnimap+asdf:INBOX to nnml+mail:inbox, or in other words it
> FF> emptied /var/spool/user, and stored them in nnml+mail:inbox, so my
> FF> imap inbox is not empty.

I meant  to type "my imap inbox is NOW empty".

>>> You can set nnimap-split-inbox to something else if you want INBOX to be
>>> left alone.  Then you can keep your nnmail-split-methods.  You can also
>>> specify different (or nil) split rules per nnimap server (see
>>> `nnimap-split-rule') so it won't fall back to nnmail-split-methods IIRC.
>
> FF> Okay, nnimap-split-inbox was unset, which I read means it will not do
> FF> splitting, which is what I want. I've tried setting it:
>
> FF> (setq nnimap-split-inbox "INBOX")
>
> FF> Then it still emptied my mbox file, but I don't know what it did with
> FF> the email.
>
> Wait, I'm confused.  Is Gnus emptying the IMAP INBOX folder or something
> else ("mbox file")?  You say two different things in your original
> post when you say "in other words" so I need you to clarify.

Sorry. Gnus is doing both.

I use fetchmail and exim which put email in /var/spool/user. Dovecot
stores INBOX in that same file, the mbox file. For other folders it
stores to maildir files.

This worked fine with emacs 22 and gnus. Now, with emacs 23.1, when I
start gnus, with nnimap-split-inbox unset, the messages that were in
the mbox file are stored in nnml+mail:inbox. The result is that my
imap inbox is empty.

With nnimap-split-inbox set, the result is that the imap inbox is
empty and I haven't found where the messages go.

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 12:52:22 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 

FF> I use fetchmail and exim which put email in /var/spool/user. Dovecot
FF> stores INBOX in that same file, the mbox file. For other folders it
FF> stores to maildir files.

FF> This worked fine with emacs 22 and gnus. Now, with emacs 23.1, when I
FF> start gnus, with nnimap-split-inbox unset, the messages that were in
FF> the mbox file are stored in nnml+mail:inbox. The result is that my
FF> imap inbox is empty.

FF> With nnimap-split-inbox set, the result is that the imap inbox is
FF> empty and I haven't found where the messages go.

Oh, I see.  I don't think IMAP is involved.  Can you test without any
IMAP servers, rules, or settings?  I haven't experienced this issue
myself.  It does seem like Gnus is picking up your incoming mail, but
not because of any nnimap-related things.

Sorry I'm not more helpful.  I hope someone else can comment if they
have a better idea of what's happening.

Ted

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Oh, I see.  I don't think IMAP is involved.  Can you test without any
> IMAP servers, rules, or settings?  I haven't experienced this issue
> myself.  It does seem like Gnus is picking up your incoming mail, but
> not because of any nnimap-related things.

I don't know what I would be testing without imap. Gnus does appear to
move messages from my mbox file using nnml, as if I were not using
imap. If it continued to do that without imap, what would that tell
me?

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:50:47 -0800, Frank wrote:

> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

>> Oh, I see.  I don't think IMAP is involved.  Can you test without any
>> IMAP servers, rules, or settings?  I haven't experienced this issue
>> myself.  It does seem like Gnus is picking up your incoming mail, but
>> not because of any nnimap-related things.

> I don't know what I would be testing without imap. Gnus does appear to
> move messages from my mbox file using nnml, as if I were not using
> imap. If it continued to do that without imap, what would that tell
> me?

How have you configured the variables gnus-select-method,
gnus-secondary-select-methods and mail-sources?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "That's one of the remarkable things about life. It's        Adam Sjøgren
  never so bad that it can't get worse."                 asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:50:47 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 

FF> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> Oh, I see.  I don't think IMAP is involved.  Can you test without any
>> IMAP servers, rules, or settings?  I haven't experienced this issue
>> myself.  It does seem like Gnus is picking up your incoming mail, but
>> not because of any nnimap-related things.

FF> I don't know what I would be testing without imap. Gnus does appear to
FF> move messages from my mbox file using nnml, as if I were not using
FF> imap. If it continued to do that without imap, what would that tell
FF> me?

Given the information Adam requested, it would let us find a way to help
you.  I am going by your earlier summary of your methods, but perhaps
it's best to get it all in one place as Adam is suggesting.

Ted

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Kendall Shaw]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 16:50:47 -0800, Frank wrote:
>
>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>
>>> Oh, I see.  I don't think IMAP is involved.  Can you test without any
>>> IMAP servers, rules, or settings?  I haven't experienced this issue
>>> myself.  It does seem like Gnus is picking up your incoming mail, but
>>> not because of any nnimap-related things.
>
>> I don't know what I would be testing without imap. Gnus does appear to
>> move messages from my mbox file using nnml, as if I were not using
>> imap. If it continued to do that without imap, what would that tell
>> me?
>
> How have you configured the variables gnus-select-method,
> gnus-secondary-select-methods and mail-sources?

Thank you.

(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.evilmegacorp.com"))
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
	  '((nnml "mail")
        (nnimap "asdf"
				(nnimap-address "localhost")
				(nnimap-server-port 143)
				(nnimap-stream network))))

and mail-sources is nil

I had a thought that it might be defaulting to reading /var/mail/user. So, as a test, I set:

(setq nnmail-spool-file '("/var/mail/empty"))

where /var/mail/empty is an empty file, with appropriate permissions
and ownership. But it still empties my imap inbox. The email seems to
go into ~/Mail/Incomingxyz.

Before that, I had:

(setq nnmail-spool-file nil)
(setq nnmail-get-new-mail nil)

and got the inbox emptied, but mail is copied to nnml inbox.

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:10:50 -0800, Kendall wrote:

> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
> 	  '((nnml "mail")

What happens if you remove the nnml definition?

Or if you set the "nnml-get-new-mail" setting to nil for the nnml
backend?

[...]
> and mail-sources is nil

Hm, I thought that would govern it. I.e. the node "Fetching Mail" in the
manual says:

  "If this variable is `nil', the mail back ends will never attempt to
   fetch mail by themselves."

Did you configure imap-splitting?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "That's one of the remarkable things about life. It's        Adam Sjøgren
  never so bad that it can't get worse."                 asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:10:50 -0800, Kendall wrote:
>
>> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
>> 	  '((nnml "mail")
>
> What happens if you remove the nnml definition?

My IMAP inbox ends up empty. In the group buffer, nnimap+asdf:INBOX is
shown to have messages. But when I select it (gnus-topic-select-group
t), it says there are no messages. The messages appear in one of the
Incoming... files.

> Or if you set the "nnml-get-new-mail" setting to nil for the nnml
> backend?

It is already set that way.

> [...]
>> and mail-sources is nil
>
> Hm, I thought that would govern it. I.e. the node "Fetching Mail" in the
> manual says:
>
>   "If this variable is `nil', the mail back ends will never attempt to
>    fetch mail by themselves."
>
> Did you configure imap-splitting?

No. I used to have nnmail-split-methods set, but have unset it and get
the same results.

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:52:02 -0800, Frank wrote:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:10:50 -0800, Kendall wrote:

>>> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
>>> '((nnml "mail")
[...]

>> Or if you set the "nnml-get-new-mail" setting to nil for the nnml
>> backend?

> It is already set that way.

Then you didn't show us your real configuration, because as quoted above
it obviously isn't set that way.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "That's one of the remarkable things about life. It's        Adam Sjøgren
  never so bad that it can't get worse."                 asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:52:02 -0800, Frank wrote:
>
>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>>> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:10:50 -0800, Kendall wrote:
>
>>>> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
>>>> '((nnml "mail")
> [...]
>
>>> Or if you set the "nnml-get-new-mail" setting to nil for the nnml
>>> backend?
>
>> It is already set that way.
>
> Then you didn't show us your real configuration, because as quoted above
> it obviously isn't set that way.

Oh, I have:

(setq nnmail-get-new-mail nil)

I guess you mean in the gnus-secondary-select-methods. I don't know
the syntax for that. I've tried:

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
	  '((nnml "mail"
              (nnmail-get-new-mail nil))
        (nnimap "pokey"
				(nnimap-address "localhost")
				(nnimap-server-port 143)
				(nnimap-stream network))))

The result is that my IMAP inbox is emptied, and the contents is not
moved to the nnml inbox.

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:13:13 -0800, Frank wrote:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>>>> Or if you set the "nnml-get-new-mail" setting to nil for the nnml
>>>> backend?

[...]

> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
> 	  '((nnml "mail"
>               (nnmail-get-new-mail nil))

Uhm, why do you write "nnmail-"? It should be "nnml-" :-)

>         (nnimap "pokey"
> 				(nnimap-address "localhost")
> 				(nnimap-server-port 143)
> 				(nnimap-stream network))))

> The result is that my IMAP inbox is emptied, and the contents is not
> moved to the nnml inbox.

I still think that it is very weird if you have set mail-sources to nil
and you haven't configured nnimap splitting.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Computers are there to save programmers time"               Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 11:13:13 -0800, Frank wrote:
>
>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>>>>> Or if you set the "nnml-get-new-mail" setting to nil for the nnml
>>>>> backend?
>
> [...]
>
>> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
>> 	  '((nnml "mail"
>>               (nnmail-get-new-mail nil))
>
> Uhm, why do you write "nnmail-"? It should be "nnml-" :-)

D'oh. Okay, I've tried changing that to nnml-get-new-mail, but I get
the same result.

>>         (nnimap "pokey"
>> 				(nnimap-address "localhost")
>> 				(nnimap-server-port 143)
>> 				(nnimap-stream network))))
>
>> The result is that my IMAP inbox is emptied, and the contents is not
>> moved to the nnml inbox.
>
> I still think that it is very weird if you have set mail-sources to nil
> and you haven't configured nnimap splitting.

My reasoning is that I have mail split using my imap server's sieve
functionality. And, I use multiple email clients from multiple
computers. I want gnus to do no splitting.

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 12:16:05 -0800, Frank wrote:

>> I still think that it is very weird if you have set mail-sources to nil
>> and you haven't configured nnimap splitting.

> My reasoning is that I have mail split using my imap server's sieve
> functionality. And, I use multiple email clients from multiple
> computers. I want gnus to do no splitting.

I'm sorry I was unclear. I don't think your objective is weird, I think
the behaviour you are experiencing is weird.

(I prefer it the other way around, btw. I have Gnus do all the splitting
and and ssh to the computer running Gnus to access email - I'm
old-fashioned that way (I have Gnus send a copy of all non-spam email to
an IMAP-account that my phone can access, but that is a different story
:-)).


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Computers are there to save programmers time"               Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Ted Zlatanov]

Run emacs -q and load this:

(require 'gnus)
;; untested primary select method, should work though
(setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil "nothing"))

(setq mail-sources nil
      gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "mail"
                                            (nnml-get-new-mail nil)
                                            ;; should not be necessary but just in case...
                                            (nnmail-get-new-mail nil))))

Does your inbox still get emptied?  What's in *Messages*?

I suspect the problem is in nnmail.el:nnmail-get-new-mail-1 from
checking the source code.  But let's make sure your configuration is
clean with this minimal start.

Thanks for your patience.
Ted

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> Run emacs -q and load this:
>
> (require 'gnus)
> ;; untested primary select method, should work though
> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil "nothing"))
>
> (setq mail-sources nil
>       gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "mail"
>                                             (nnml-get-new-mail nil)
>                                             ;; should not be necessary but just in case...
>                                             (nnmail-get-new-mail nil))))
>
> Does your inbox still get emptied?  What's in *Messages*?

Thanks. No, it is not emptied. Messages contains:

("emacs" "-q")
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Mark set
Mark activated
Mark set [2 times]
Reading /home/user/.newsrc.eld...
Reading active file from nothing via nnnil...done
Reading active file from mail via nnml...
Opening nnml server on mail...done
Reading active file from mail via nnml...done
No new newsgroups
Checking new news...
Opening nntp server on news.evilmegacorp.org...done
Opening nnml server...done
nOpening nndoc server on gnus-help...done
Opening nnml server...done
Opening nnml server...done
Checking new news...done

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:57:47 -0800, Frank wrote:

> Thanks. No, it is not emptied.

Maybe it's time to share your entire configuration? (Passwords obscured,
of course).


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "faster than C++, more concise than Perl, more               Adam Sjøgren
  regular than Python, more flexible than Ruby, more     asjo@koldfront.dk
  typeful than C#, more robust than Java, and has
  absolutely nothing in common with PHP."

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:57:47 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 

FF> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> Run emacs -q and load this:
>> 
>> (require 'gnus)
>> ;; untested primary select method, should work though
>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil "nothing"))
>> 
>> (setq mail-sources nil
>> gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "mail"
>> (nnml-get-new-mail nil)
>> ;; should not be necessary but just in case...
>> (nnmail-get-new-mail nil))))
>> 
>> Does your inbox still get emptied?  What's in *Messages*?

FF> Thanks. No, it is not emptied. Messages contains:

OK, excellent.  So there's something not in this configuration but in
yours that triggers the emptying.  This is your configuration:

(require 'gnus)
(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.evilmegacorp.com"))
(setq mail-sources nil
      gnus-secondary-select-methods
	  '((nnml "mail")
            (nnimap "asdf"
				(nnimap-address "localhost")
				(nnimap-server-port 143)
				(nnimap-stream network))))

Can you try emacs -q and see if your configuration as stated above
empties your inbox?

If it does, there's three differences:

A) nnml-get-new-mail and nnmail-get-new-mail
B) the secondary nnimap server
C) the primary nntp server

You then need to figure out which things (it could be one or more of A,
B, C, AB, AC, BC, or ABC) are triggering your issue.

Ted

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:57:47 -0800, Frank wrote:
>
>> Thanks. No, it is not emptied.
>
> Maybe it's time to share your entire configuration? (Passwords obscured,
> of course).

Ok. Gathering the configuration, I noticed that I'm actually only
using mbox files... Sorry, it's been a while since I set this
up. Dovecot stores my mail in 2 places, this first is the inbox:

/var/mail/user
$HOME/.dovecot

Below the later, there is one mbox file per IMAP folder.

My .gnus.el is:

(setq gnus-summary-line-format "%U%R%z%I%(%[%4L: %-20,20n%]%) %d %s\n")
(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.evilmegacorp.com"))
(setq nnmail-spool-file nil)
(setq nnmail-get-new-mail nil)
(setq imap-debug t)

(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
	  '((nnml "mail")
        (nnimap "asdf"
				(nnimap-address "localhost")
				(nnimap-server-port 143)
				(nnimap-stream network))))

(setq gnus-post-method '(nntp "news.evilmegacorp.com"))

(setq message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it
      smtpmail-starttls-credential '(("mail.evilmegacorp.com" 587 nil nil))
      smtpmail-auth-credentials '(("mail.evilmegacorp.com" 587 "asdf" nil))
      smtpmail-default-smtp-server "mail.evilmegacorp.com"
      smtpmail-smtp-server "mail.evilmegacorp.com"
      smtpmail-smtp-service 587
      smtpmail-local-domain "not.no")
(setq smtpmail-local-domain "asdf.not.no")
(setq smtpmail-debug-info t)
(load-library "smtpmail")
(setq smtpmail-code-conv-from nil)
(defun smtpmail-fqdn ()
  smtpmail-local-domain)


(setq mail-host-address "not.no")
(setq user-mail-address "none@not.no")
(setq user-full-name "Frank Fredstone")

(setq my-default-headers "Bcc: none@localhost")
(setq message-default-headers my-default-headers)

(require 'sendmail)
(setq mail-from-style 'parens)

(add-hook 'gnus-group-mode-hook 'gnus-topic-mode)
(add-hook 'gnus-topic-mode-hook
      (function
       (lambda ()
         (define-key gnus-topic-mode-map " " 'none-select-unread)
         (define-key gnus-topic-mode-map "^M" 'none-select-group))))

(defun none-select-unread ()
  (interactive)
  (gnus-topic-select-group nil))

(defun none-select-group ()
  (interactive)
  (gnus-topic-select-group t))

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:22:29 -0800, Frank wrote:

[...]
> My .gnus.el is:
[...]

No mention of mail-sources at all. It defaults to '((file)). There's yer
problem methinks.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Some people like cupcakes better.                           Adam Sjøgren
  I for one care less for them!"                         asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:57:47 -0800 Frank Fredstone <none@not.no> wrote: 
>
> FF> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>>> Run emacs -q and load this:
>>> 
>>> (require 'gnus)
>>> ;; untested primary select method, should work though
>>> (setq gnus-select-method '(nnnil "nothing"))
>>> 
>>> (setq mail-sources nil
>>> gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "mail"
>>> (nnml-get-new-mail nil)
>>> ;; should not be necessary but just in case...
>>> (nnmail-get-new-mail nil))))
>>> 
>>> Does your inbox still get emptied?  What's in *Messages*?
>
> FF> Thanks. No, it is not emptied. Messages contains:
>
> OK, excellent.  So there's something not in this configuration but in
> yours that triggers the emptying.  This is your configuration:
>
> (require 'gnus)
> (setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.evilmegacorp.com"))
> (setq mail-sources nil
>       gnus-secondary-select-methods
> 	  '((nnml "mail")
>             (nnimap "asdf"
> 				(nnimap-address "localhost")
> 				(nnimap-server-port 143)
> 				(nnimap-stream network))))
>
> Can you try emacs -q and see if your configuration as stated above
> empties your inbox?

Thank you! This doesn't empty the inbox and the inbox is mapped to
nnimap:asdf:INBOX. So, I can start adding things back and hopefully
see where things break.

I should have been able to go through that process too, but I was
afraid to lose email. Thanks again.

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Frank Fredstone]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:22:29 -0800, Frank wrote:
>
> [...]
>> My .gnus.el is:
> [...]
>
> No mention of mail-sources at all. It defaults to '((file)). There's yer
> problem methinks.

Thanks. Setting mail-sources to nil seems to fix the problem.

The info file says that setting it to nil causes the mail back ends to
never attempt to fetch mail. So, maybe this is a bug?

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:33:03 -0800, Frank wrote:

> Thanks. Setting mail-sources to nil seems to fix the problem.

Good!

You _did_ say previously that you had set mail-sources to nil, which was
confusing (me, anyway).

> The info file says that setting it to nil causes the mail back ends to
> never attempt to fetch mail. So, maybe this is a bug?

What is a bug?

Didn't you just say that when you set it to nil, Gnus doesn't empty your
mail any more? That's exactly what not fetching mail means.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "This is either madness... or brilliance."                   Adam Sjøgren
 "It's remarkable how often those two traits coincide."  asjo@koldfront.dk

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 23:31:06 +0100 asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) wrote: 

AS> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:22:29 -0800, Frank wrote:
AS> [...]
>> My .gnus.el is:
AS> [...]

AS> No mention of mail-sources at all. It defaults to '((file)). There's yer
AS> problem methinks.

We should think about a gnus-snarf-configuration that will report this
kind of detail.  It's hard for the users to give us exactly what we need
to find Gnus configuration issues, because Gnus configuration is spread
over such a wide namespace.

Ted

Re: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 15:46:04 -0600, Ted wrote:

> We should think about a gnus-snarf-configuration that will report this
> kind of detail. It's hard for the users to give us exactly what we
> need to find Gnus configuration issues, because Gnus configuration is
> spread over such a wide namespace.

Yeah.

Although, he did say, quite early on:

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:10:50 -0800, Kendall Shaw wrote:

> and mail-sources is nil

... which wasn't quite true, so... It's not like it wasn't one of the
things we asked about pretty early on.

(Although I only now realize that he changed names for that one reply -
otherwise his name was Frank Fredstone...)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "The concert is finito, my friends, goodnight!"              Adam Sjøgren
                                                         asjo@koldfront.dk

better bug reporting (was: Change in splitting from emacs 22/gnus 5.11 and emacs 23/gnus 5.13?)

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:05:39 +0100 asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) wrote: 

AS> On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 10:10:50 -0800, Kendall Shaw wrote:

>> and mail-sources is nil

AS> ... which wasn't quite true, so... It's not like it wasn't one of the
AS> things we asked about pretty early on.

We should make it easy to report the configuration exactly as Gnus knows
it, as opposed to what it's believed to me.

Can this be automated?  I'd like it to include auth-sources and
mail-sources, for instance.  `gnus-bug' does some of this work for us
through `gnus-debug' (both in gnus-msg.el) so perhaps we should just
hook into it.

Ted

Re: better bug reporting

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:21:35 -0600, Ted wrote:

> We should make it easy to report the configuration exactly as Gnus
> knows it, as opposed to what it's believed to me.

Yeah.

Still one of the cardinal rules of bug-reporting is "Don't state what
you believe as fact". Cf. Simon Tathams classic "How to Report Bugs
Effectively"¹.

:-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

¹ http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html - ought to be
  mandatory reading for anyone using a computer.

-- 
 "Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand                Adam Sjøgren
  euphoria!"                                             asjo@koldfront.dk