read mail in mbox files

read mail in mbox files

[ernest]

Hi,
This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
want to copy mail anywhere!
Frankly, I'm a bit confused :/
Cheers,
Ernest

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
> files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
> want to copy mail anywhere!
> Frankly, I'm a bit confused :/
> Cheers,
> Ernest

You're not alone! This is *probably* the nnml backend.

   (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))

That said I dont know for sure ;)

I mention it because the default is  ~/Mail.

But a point : despite using Gnus for a few years now I am not clear
on what "incoming mail" means in the context.  Possibly it looks in
/var/spool/mail. But since your mail is already there, I dunno. 

Best of luck!

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Leonidas Tsampros]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
> ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
>> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
>> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
>> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
>> files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
>> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
>> want to copy mail anywhere!
>> Frankly, I'm a bit confused :/
>> Cheers,
>> Ernest
>
> You're not alone! This is *probably* the nnml backend.
>
>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>
> That said I dont know for sure ;)
>
> I mention it because the default is  ~/Mail.
>
> But a point : despite using Gnus for a few years now I am not clear
> on what "incoming mail" means in the context.  Possibly it looks in
> /var/spool/mail. But since your mail is already there, I dunno.
>
> Best of luck!

If I understand correctly 'incoming mail' in this context means that
Gnus will use ~/Mail as a directory from which he will get and 'digest'
email to the selected mail (nnml) backend.

I remember experimenting with these two here:

(setq mail-source-delete-incoming t)
(setq mail-sources '((directory :path "~/Mail"
				:suffix "")))

Setting the suffix Gnus will digest only the mbox-es with that suffix in
the filename. As long as mail-source-delete-incoming is nil, I think you
are safe (as the original mbox-es will be intact).

That said (to the OP), in order to get Gnus read your ~/Mail directly,
you will have to use the nnfolder backend I think. I'm sure I have tried
successfully the nnfolder sometime in the past as I had the exact same
setup as yours. Don't forget to BACKUP your email. I bear no
responsibility etc etc.

Ultimately I ended up with nnml+fancy splitting+mail sources removing
procmail from the equation completely. I think that I ended up with a
much more versatile setup.

Best Regards
Leonidas Tsampros

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

Leonidas Tsampros <ltsampros@upnet.gr> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>> ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
>>> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
>>> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
>>> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
>>> files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
>>> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
>>> want to copy mail anywhere!
>>> Frankly, I'm a bit confused :/
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ernest
>>
>> You're not alone! This is *probably* the nnml backend.
>>
>>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>>
>> That said I dont know for sure ;)
>>
>> I mention it because the default is  ~/Mail.
>>
>> But a point : despite using Gnus for a few years now I am not clear
>> on what "incoming mail" means in the context.  Possibly it looks in
>> /var/spool/mail. But since your mail is already there, I dunno.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>
> If I understand correctly 'incoming mail' in this context means that
> Gnus will use ~/Mail as a directory from which he will get and 'digest'
> email to the selected mail (nnml) backend.

I have no idea : it seems to get it from the spool. There are no
concrete examples that I can find.

>
> I remember experimenting with these two here:
>
> (setq mail-source-delete-incoming t)
> (setq mail-sources '((directory :path "~/Mail"
> 				:suffix "")))

~/Mail is a default. I am "pretty sure" (thats a euphemism meaning "I am
happy to remain in ignorance as it works for me") that nnml reads
"incoming" from the spool /var/spool and then stores them in mbox (or
whatever?!?) in ~/Mail. Asking for examples has generally been
unsuccessful - I just know I dont have any nnfolder thingies. Just that
nnml select.

But here we see an issue with the docs. nnml? 

Also FWIW, I see the same Qs every day in #emacs pretty much : most
people tend to revert to mutt ;( Sometimes its nice to know one is not
alone.

>
> Setting the suffix Gnus will digest only the mbox-es with that suffix in
> the filename. As long as mail-source-delete-incoming is nil, I think you
> are safe (as the original mbox-es will be intact).
>
> That said (to the OP), in order to get Gnus read your ~/Mail directly,
> you will have to use the nnfolder backend I think. I'm sure I have tried
> successfully the nnfolder sometime in the past as I had the exact same
> setup as yours. Don't forget to BACKUP your email. I bear no
> responsibility etc etc.
>
> Ultimately I ended up with nnml+fancy splitting+mail sources removing
> procmail from the equation completely. I think that I ended up with a
> much more versatile setup.
>

I used to use fancy splitting but cant get it working with spam-split
with nognus anymore. Calls for a working config haven't been successful
;(

Gnus is great. Just getting it working can be a .. hurdle ...

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:41:04 +0100, Richard wrote:

> ~/Mail is a default. I am "pretty sure" (thats a euphemism meaning "I am
> happy to remain in ignorance as it works for me") that nnml reads
> "incoming" from the spool /var/spool and then stores them in mbox (or
> whatever?!?) in ~/Mail.

nnml does not store in mbox format:

,----[ 6.3.13.3 Mail Spool <http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194> ]
|
| If you use this back end, Gnus will split all incoming mail into files,
| one file for each mail, and put the articles into the corresponding
| directories under the directory specified by the nnml-directory
| variable. The default value is `~/Mail/'.
|
|[...]
|
| If you have a strict limit as to how many files you are allowed to store
| in your account, you should not use this back end. As each mail gets its
| own file, you might very well occupy thousands of inodes within a few
| weeks. If this is no problem for you, and it isn't a problem for you
| having your friendly systems administrator walking around, madly,
| shouting "Who is eating all my inodes?! Who? Who!?!", then you should
| know that this is probably the fastest format to use. You do not have to
| trudge through a big mbox file just to read your new mail.
|
`----

If the original poster wants to keep procmail splitting mail into
~/Mail/ then nnml definitely is not the answer (as nnml assumes that
Gnus is the only one writing to nnml-groups).

> But here we see an issue with the docs. nnml? 

Suggest improvements to http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194 and
http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_202.html#SEC202 ?

> I used to use fancy splitting but cant get it working with spam-split
> with nognus anymore. Calls for a working config haven't been successful
> ;(

I don't use IMAP, so I can't give any other examples than the ones
already posted.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Peter Münster]

ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:

> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
> files. Is this possible?

Perhaps yes. But it's not recommended. Gnus does not use any locking like
sendmail or procmail, so whenever new mail arrives at the same time as
Gnus is working on the mbox, you'll get problems.


> What backend do I need?
> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
> want to copy mail anywhere!

You can use the mbox backend and tell procmail to save all incoming
messages in ~/.mail/*.spool. Then you set

(setq mail-sources '((file) (directory :path "~/.mail"))

and you'll get mbox files in ~/Mail for every spool file in ~/.mail
Just be sure, that only Gnus works on the files in ~/Mail.

Cheers, Peter

-- 
Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Gary]

Funny. I didn't see the OP. Anyway...

Richard Riley wrote:
> ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
>> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
>> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
>> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
>> files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
>> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
>> want to copy mail anywhere!

> You're not alone! This is *probably* the nnml backend.
>
>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>
> That said I dont know for sure ;)

I asked something similar before, but never really got anything that
worked so asked on the other gnus list (basically, the dev
list). Leonidas Tsampros said the following:

,----[ Leonidas Tsampros ]
| My primary select methos is a local university nntp server we have and
| as the secondary methods I have the following:
| 
| (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")
|                                       (nnimap "10.6.0.20")))
| 
| Then I have these in my .conf:
| 
| (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail.Gnus")
| (setq mail-source-delete-incoming t)
| 
| (setq mail-sources '((directory :path "~/Mail"
|                                 :suffix "")))
| 
| So, Emacs now reads all Mail on all mboxes under ~/Mail, and 'ingests'
| them into the nnml backend which is under "~/Mail.Gnus".  Now at this
| point and in order to emulate procmail's behaviour, I use fancy
| splitting:
| 
| ;; fancy mail splitting
| (setq nnmail-resplit-incoming t)
| (setq nnmail-split-methods 'nnmail-split-fancy)
| (setq nnmail-split-fancy
|       '(|
|        ("list-id" "ding\\.gnus\\.org" "mail.gnus.ding")))
`----

But, rather embarassingly, I haven't had time to try it out yet.

> But a point : despite using Gnus for a few years now I am not clear
> on what "incoming mail" means in the context.  Possibly it looks in
> /var/spool/mail. But since your mail is already there, I dunno. 

Does the above help, Richard?

Potentially I suppose one could do away with procmail, and set
mail-sources to /var/spool/mail, and it will end up split into
~/Mail.Gnus. @ernest I'd be very happy if you posted the results of
whatever you do, as I have a similar current setup to you, and the same
desire to read my email in mbox files using gnus.

-- 
Gary        Please do NOT send me 'courtesy' replies off-list.
GNU Emacs 23.2.1
emacsclient 23.2

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:41:04 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>> ~/Mail is a default. I am "pretty sure" (thats a euphemism meaning "I am
>> happy to remain in ignorance as it works for me") that nnml reads
>> "incoming" from the spool /var/spool and then stores them in mbox (or
>> whatever?!?) in ~/Mail.
>
> nnml does not store in mbox format:
>
> ,----[ 6.3.13.3 Mail Spool <http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194> ]
> |
> | If you use this back end, Gnus will split all incoming mail into files,
> | one file for each mail, and put the articles into the corresponding
> | directories under the directory specified by the nnml-directory
> | variable. The default value is `~/Mail/'.

So what format? Maildir? What is a "nnaml-directory"? Maybe I'm
overthinking it. But "nnml"? My comments are also reflective of the
times we see the same questions here and in #emacs : clearly it isnt at
all clear. If I could understand what it is I would love to have a stab
at explaining it better. As it is nnfolder, nnml and some others seem to
be some sort of abstract gnus only concepts. Please don't misunderstand
my stance is negative per.se - I'm just voicing the difficulties and
many others find trying to configure gnus. When you know it and
understand it then .. you understand it. But without a good gnus
knowledge its hard to even get started.

> |
> |[...]
> |
> | If you have a strict limit as to how many files you are allowed to store
> | in your account, you should not use this back end. As each mail gets its
> | own file, you might very well occupy thousands of inodes within a few
> | weeks. If this is no problem for you, and it isn't a problem for you
> | having your friendly systems administrator walking around, madly,
> | shouting "Who is eating all my inodes?! Who? Who!?!", then you should
> | know that this is probably the fastest format to use. You do not have to
> | trudge through a big mbox file just to read your new mail.
> |
> `----
>
> If the original poster wants to keep procmail splitting mail into
> ~/Mail/ then nnml definitely is not the answer (as nnml assumes that
> Gnus is the only one writing to nnml-groups).

That makes some sense.

>
>> But here we see an issue with the docs. nnml? 
>
> Suggest improvements to http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194 and
> http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_202.html#SEC202 ?

One cant improve it if one doesnt know what something is;) What is nnml?

If i was to start I think some sort of overview of Linux/*IX mail would
go a long way. e.g What IS incoming mail? It might seem obvious to some
but it really isn't to many. Is incoming mail in /var/spool? What about
if the system is configured to deliver mail locally e.g to ~/Mail? How
does that work with nnml backend?

At some point in the future I intend to wipe my mail setup and start
again from scratch starting with my Linux "system email" as I call it :
ie locally delivered from root etc. Its still not working properly for
me. When I do I hope to log the steps and provide an explanation better
suited for new adopters.


>
>> I used to use fancy splitting but cant get it working with spam-split
>> with nognus anymore. Calls for a working config haven't been successful
>> ;(
>
> I don't use IMAP, so I can't give any other examples than the ones
> already posted.

Most of the major nognus changes have been imap related.

>
>   Best regards,
>
>     Adam

-- 
☘ http://www.shamrockirishbar.com, http://splash-of-open-sauce.blogspot.com/ http://www.richardriley.net

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

Gary <gnus@garydjones.name> writes:

> Funny. I didn't see the OP. Anyway...
>
> Richard Riley wrote:
>> ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
>>> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
>>> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
>>> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
>>> files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
>>> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
>>> want to copy mail anywhere!
>
>> You're not alone! This is *probably* the nnml backend.
>>
>>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>>
>> That said I dont know for sure ;)
>
> I asked something similar before, but never really got anything that
> worked so asked on the other gnus list (basically, the dev
> list). Leonidas Tsampros said the following:
>
> ,----[ Leonidas Tsampros ]
> | My primary select methos is a local university nntp server we have and
> | as the secondary methods I have the following:
> | 
> | (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")
> |                                       (nnimap "10.6.0.20")))
> | 
> | Then I have these in my .conf:
> | 
> | (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail.Gnus")
> | (setq mail-source-delete-incoming t)
> | 
> | (setq mail-sources '((directory :path "~/Mail"
> |                                 :suffix "")))
> | 
> | So, Emacs now reads all Mail on all mboxes under ~/Mail, and 'ingests'
> | them into the nnml backend which is under "~/Mail.Gnus".  Now at this
> | point and in order to emulate procmail's behaviour, I use fancy
> | splitting:
> | 
> | ;; fancy mail splitting
> | (setq nnmail-resplit-incoming t)
> | (setq nnmail-split-methods 'nnmail-split-fancy)
> | (setq nnmail-split-fancy
> |       '(|
> |        ("list-id" "ding\\.gnus\\.org" "mail.gnus.ding")))
> `----
>
> But, rather embarassingly, I haven't had time to try it out yet.
>
>> But a point : despite using Gnus for a few years now I am not clear
>> on what "incoming mail" means in the context.  Possibly it looks in
>> /var/spool/mail. But since your mail is already there, I dunno. 
>
> Does the above help, Richard?

Yes & No ;(

It doesnt use spam-split. 

But it DOES explain the "incoming" and "nnml" backend better!

Had it mentioned how and why ~/Mail got its mail (system mail) all the
better. But a good set up.

>
> Potentially I suppose one could do away with procmail, and set
> mail-sources to /var/spool/mail, and it will end up split into

Thats my current set up.

> ~/Mail.Gnus. @ernest I'd be very happy if you posted the results of
> whatever you do, as I have a similar current setup to you, and the same
> desire to read my email in mbox files using gnus.

I'm interested why mbox? You mean existing mbox?

Re: read mail in mbox files

[ernest]

Thanks for the comments.

On 18 Gen, 14:35, pmli...@free.fr (Peter Münster) wrote:
> ernest <nfdi...@gmail.com> writes:
> > This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
> > different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
> > mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
> > What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
> > files. Is this possible?
>
> Perhaps yes. But it's not recommended. Gnus does not use any locking like
> sendmail or procmail, so whenever new mail arrives at the same time as
> Gnus is working on the mbox, you'll get problems.
>
> > What backend do I need?
> > I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
> > want to copy mail anywhere!
>
> You can use the mbox backend and tell procmail to save all incoming
> messages in ~/.mail/*.spool. Then you set
>
> (setq mail-sources '((file) (directory :path "~/.mail"))
>
> and you'll get mbox files in ~/Mail for every spool file in ~/.mail
> Just be sure, that only Gnus works on the files in ~/Mail.

If I understand correctly, this will copy the "spool" files in ~/.mail
to ~/Mail, and leave everything in ~/.mail unchanged. This is not
exactly what I wanted though.

The idea is that mbox being an open format one would say it
should be possible to use the same mailboxes with different MUAs,
for instance mutt and gnus, at the same time (maybe not
simultaneously, ok, but you get the idea). In theory it should be
easy, but in practice it is not.

Cheers.
Ernest

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Peter Münster]

ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:

> If I understand correctly, this will copy the "spool" files in ~/.mail
> to ~/Mail, and leave everything in ~/.mail unchanged. This is not
> exactly what I wanted though.
>
> The idea is that mbox being an open format one would say it
> should be possible to use the same mailboxes with different MUAs,
> for instance mutt and gnus, at the same time (maybe not
> simultaneously, ok, but you get the idea). In theory it should be
> easy, but in practice it is not.

No problem if you don't use the 2 MUAs simultaneously and you don't use
the incoming spools. The only problem with Gnus is the locking, that's
why it uses some "movemail" program that locks correctly and saves the
incoming email somewhere at $HOME.

At least 2 options:

1.)
/var/mail/user   ->   ~/.mail/*.spool  with procmail
~/.mail/*.spool  ->   ~/Mail/*         with Gnus
Managing ~/Mail/* with Gnus or mutt, but not at the same time.

2.) Use maildir: no locking problems.
/var/mail/user   ->   ~/Mail/...       with procmail
Managing ~/Mail/... with Gnus or mutt, or both at the same time!


(untested, I use nnml and only 1 MUA)

Cheers, Peter

-- 
Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

Gary <gnus@garydjones.name> writes:

> Funny. I didn't see the OP. Anyway...
>
> Richard Riley wrote:
>> ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
>>> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
>>> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
>>> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
>>> files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
>>> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
>>> want to copy mail anywhere!
>
>> You're not alone! This is *probably* the nnml backend.
>>
>>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>>
>> That said I dont know for sure ;)
>
> I asked something similar before, but never really got anything that
> worked so asked on the other gnus list (basically, the dev
> list). Leonidas Tsampros said the following:
>
> ,----[ Leonidas Tsampros ]
> | My primary select methos is a local university nntp server we have and
> | as the secondary methods I have the following:
> | 
> | (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")
> |                                       (nnimap "10.6.0.20")))
> | 
> | Then I have these in my .conf:
> | 
> | (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail.Gnus")

Q: My setting is:

,----
| nnml-directory is a variable defined in `nnml.el'.
| Its value is "~/.emacs.d/Mail/"
| 
| Documentation:
| Spool directory for the nnml mail backend.
| 
| This is a Gnus server variable.  See Info node `(gnus)Select Methods'.
`----

Why is this a "spool" directory?

The word "spool" is throwing me. I thought "spool" meant it was spooled
to you and then stored in a backend .. like nnml.

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:51:54 +0100, Richard wrote:

> Why is this a "spool" directory?

> The word "spool" is throwing me. I thought "spool" meant it was spooled
> to you and then stored in a backend .. like nnml.

A "(news)spool" in news-related terms is usually where the articles are
stored in a newsserver (the meaning used here).

A mail-spool is usually where mail is stored locally until the user
fetches it (/var/mail or /var/spool/mail).

In the documentation nnml is described as the backend that most closely
resembles a newsspool, so that is probably where the choice of word
comes from. And perhaps also some of the confusion.


  Best regards,

   Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 14:59:40 +0100, Richard wrote:

>> nnml does not store in mbox format:
 
>> ,----[ 6.3.13.3 Mail Spool <http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194> ]
>> |
>> | If you use this back end, Gnus will split all incoming mail into files,
>> | one file for each mail, and put the articles into the corresponding
>> | directories under the directory specified by the nnml-directory
>> | variable. The default value is `~/Mail/'.

> So what format? Maildir?

No, that would be nnmaildir.

nnml stores mail in its own format, call it nnml-format if you wish -
i.e. each article in a file by itself and with a .overview and a .marks
file for each group.

> What is a "nnaml-directory"?

nnml-directory is where the email (files and directories) are stored.

> Maybe I'm overthinking it.

Or under-, I dunno... ;-)

> But "nnml"?

What about "nnml"? It's just the name of a backend to store email in.

> My comments are also reflective of the times we see the same questions
> here and in #emacs : clearly it isnt at all clear.

You'll need to say _what_ isn't clear.

> As it is nnfolder, nnml and some others seem to be some sort of
> abstract gnus only concepts.

Abstract is perhaps a little much, but they are Gnus concepts
(backends). What did you imagine they were?

> I'm just voicing the difficulties and many others find trying to
> configure gnus.

That is fine, but I find it very hard to understand what exactly it is
you don't comprehend, so my attempts at helping are quite feeble, I'm
afraid.

> One cant improve it if one doesnt know what something is;) What is nnml?

I just quoted you half of the page in the manual that answers that
question, and even included the link:
http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194 - what else do you need?
(I'm not being sarcastic, I actually want your answer.)

> If i was to start I think some sort of overview of Linux/*IX mail would
> go a long way. e.g What IS incoming mail?

I would understand that as "mail in the place that Gnus is supposed to
fetch it from".

> It might seem obvious to some but it really isn't to many. Is incoming
> mail in /var/spool?

On many systems, yes.

> What about if the system is configured to deliver mail locally e.g to
> ~/Mail? How does that work with nnml backend?

Then you would configure Gnus to get incoming mail from there and put it
somewhere else (as Gary described it in this thread, under ~/Mail.Gnus/
for instance).

You could also configure Gnus to read mail delivered to ~/Mail/
directly, if it is in a format that Gnus understands (maildir would be
an example).

(I wouldn't, because I would lose the gains that can be had when Gnus
knows it is the only one writing and I don't care to use multiple MUAs
on the same email, but ... different strokes for different folks).

>> I don't use IMAP, so I can't give any other examples than the ones
>> already posted.

> Most of the major nognus changes have been imap related.

I know. Sorry I can't be of any help there.


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:51:54 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>> Why is this a "spool" directory?
>
>> The word "spool" is throwing me. I thought "spool" meant it was spooled
>> to you and then stored in a backend .. like nnml.
>
> A "(news)spool" in news-related terms is usually where the articles are
> stored in a newsserver (the meaning used here).
>
> A mail-spool is usually where mail is stored locally until the user
> fetches it (/var/mail or /var/spool/mail).
>
> In the documentation nnml is described as the backend that most closely
> resembles a newsspool, so that is probably where the choice of word
> comes from. And perhaps also some of the confusion.

I think in the context it's incorrect but wouldnt put my mortgage on it
...

nnml-directory is not a spool really : the var/spool source is.

And checking values now, I see, and amazingly confusing, that

,----
| Its value is "~/.emacs.d/Mail/archive"
`----

How I dont know as I set

  (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")

bah ;) I need to start all over again ...

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:28:23 +0100, Richard wrote:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

>> A "(news)spool" in news-related terms is usually where the articles are
>> stored in a newsserver (the meaning used here).
 
>> A mail-spool is usually where mail is stored locally until the user
>> fetches it (/var/mail or /var/spool/mail).
 
>> In the documentation nnml is described as the backend that most closely
>> resembles a newsspool, so that is probably where the choice of word
>> comes from. And perhaps also some of the confusion.

> I think in the context it's incorrect but wouldnt put my mortgage on it
> ...

> nnml-directory is not a spool really : the var/spool source is.

The content of nnml-directory is similar to a newsSPOOL - from which
Gnus historically has been (and is) able to read directly, when pointed
at it.

The manual says:

,----[ 6.3.13.11 Comparing Mail Back Ends - http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_202.html#SEC202 ]
|
| nnml is the back end which smells the most as though you were actually
| operating with an nnspool-accessed Usenet system. (In fact, I believe
| nnml actually derived from nnspool code, lo these years ago.) One's mail
| is taken from the original spool file, and is then cut up into
| individual message files, 1:1. It maintains a Usenet-style active file
| (analogous to what one finds in an INN- or CNews-based news system in
| (for instance) `/var/lib/news/active', or what is returned via the `NNTP
| LIST' verb) and also creates overview files for efficient group entry,
| as has been defined for NNTP servers for some years now. It is slower in
| mail-splitting, due to the creation of lots of files, updates to the
| nnml active file, and additions to overview files on a per-message
| basis, but it is extremely fast on access because of what amounts to the
| indexing support provided by the active file and overviews.
|
`----


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 14:59:40 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>>> nnml does not store in mbox format:
>
>>> ,----[ 6.3.13.3 Mail Spool <http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194> ]
>>> |
>>> | If you use this back end, Gnus will split all incoming mail into files,
>>> | one file for each mail, and put the articles into the corresponding
>>> | directories under the directory specified by the nnml-directory
>>> | variable. The default value is `~/Mail/'.
>
>> So what format? Maildir?
>
> No, that would be nnmaildir.

nnmaildir is a format? I thought it was a back end that fed on Maildir?
Possibly silly wording issues only. I dont know at times.

>
> nnml stores mail in its own format, call it nnml-format if you wish -
> i.e. each article in a file by itself and with a .overview and a .marks
> file for each group.
>
>> What is a "nnaml-directory"?
>
> nnml-directory is where the email (files and directories) are stored.
>
>> Maybe I'm overthinking it.
>
> Or under-, I dunno... ;-)

Heh ...

>
>> But "nnml"?
>
> What about "nnml"? It's just the name of a backend to store email in.
>
>> My comments are also reflective of the times we see the same questions
>> here and in #emacs : clearly it isnt at all clear.
>
> You'll need to say _what_ isn't clear.

I think I have but not in a single coherent post. My mistake for
"butterflying" back and forth. mea culpa.

>
>> As it is nnfolder, nnml and some others seem to be some sort of
>> abstract gnus only concepts.
>
> Abstract is perhaps a little much, but they are Gnus concepts
> (backends). What did you imagine they were?
>
>> I'm just voicing the difficulties and many others find trying to
>> configure gnus.
>
> That is fine, but I find it very hard to understand what exactly it is
> you don't comprehend, so my attempts at helping are quite feeble, I'm
> afraid.

And I fully understand : I am not communicating my poor understanding
well as I'm -- confused ;)

>
>> One cant improve it if one doesnt know what something is;) What is nnml?
>
> I just quoted you half of the page in the manual that answers that
> question, and even included the link:
> http://gnus.org/manual/gnus_194.html#SEC194 - what else do you need?
> (I'm not being sarcastic, I actually want your answer.)

What I didnt understand is it proclaiming that its the "Mail Spool".

Its not. Its ONE such. And whether its even a spool is questionable
keeping in mind it defaults to fetching mail from the system spool.

Possibly that was the catalyst that started my confusion.
Possibly that explains where I was getting lost a little.

I must admit the mist is clearing : I will be the first to admit I was
lost in a cloud of my own confusion there for a while.

But whats not helping me is something like this


  (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
  (setq nndrafts-directory "~/Mail")
  (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")


and then starting Gnus and finding TWO Mail dirs. one in ~ and the other
in .emacs.d. The ~/Mail is fine : it shows an "active" file and a "mail"
dir. The one in .emacs has similar and ALSO an "incomingXXXXX"
file. Examining the value of nnml-directory it tells me the value is
... "~/.emacs.d/Mail/archive". Its at this point my eyes start to mist
over ...


Thanks for taking the time to hand hold!

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:46:44 +0100, Richard wrote:

>>> So what format? Maildir?
 
>> No, that would be nnmaildir.

> nnmaildir is a format? I thought it was a back end that fed on Maildir?
> Possibly silly wording issues only. I dont know at times.

Yes, the backend that uses the Maildir format is nnmaildir; that was
what I was trying to say.

[...]

> What I didnt understand is it proclaiming that its the "Mail Spool".

It is because you seem to only accept one use of the word "spool". Think
of it as a news spool just with mail in it, instead of a mail spool as
in /var/spool/mail/.

Sometimes it is more apparant than other times that Gnus originated as a
newsreader :-)

[...]

> But whats not helping me is something like this

>   (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>   (setq nndrafts-directory "~/Mail")
>   (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")

> and then starting Gnus and finding TWO Mail dirs. one in ~ and the other
> in .emacs.d.

You must have configured something else to point to ~/.emacs.d/Mail.
Perhaps your archive method?

I think you are staring at one thing in your configuration and ignoring
all the other stuff, which might actually the cause of what you are
seeing :-)


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:46:44 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>>>> So what format? Maildir?
>
>>> No, that would be nnmaildir.
>
>> nnmaildir is a format? I thought it was a back end that fed on Maildir?
>> Possibly silly wording issues only. I dont know at times.
>
> Yes, the backend that uses the Maildir format is nnmaildir; that was
> what I was trying to say.

So the format *was* Maildir. See how easy terminology cam confuse ;)
Maildir often confuses others news to Gnus because of the worry about
direct Maildir access to the Maildir folders compromising Dovecot which
stores in Maildir but offers an imap interface. But thats a side issue.

>
> [...]
>
>> What I didnt understand is it proclaiming that its the "Mail Spool".
>
> It is because you seem to only accept one use of the word "spool". Think
> of it as a news spool just with mail in it, instead of a mail spool as
> in /var/spool/mail/.

Yes, that might help --

>
> Sometimes it is more apparant than other times that Gnus originated as a
> newsreader :-)

Very true.

>
> [...]
>
>> But whats not helping me is something like this
>
>>   (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>>   (setq nndrafts-directory "~/Mail")
>>   (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")
>
>> and then starting Gnus and finding TWO Mail dirs. one in ~ and the other
>> in .emacs.d.
>
> You must have configured something else to point to ~/.emacs.d/Mail.
> Perhaps your archive method?
>
> I think you are staring at one thing in your configuration and ignoring
> all the other stuff, which might actually the cause of what you are
> seeing :-)

What you see is there is my nnml config. I have nothing else. All the
rest is imap related. I have no default archive settings either.

Nothing else nnml in my init.el or my custom.el.

As I said, the mist has cleared a little. Yes the words to clarify it
are there but buried deep amongst complex gnus only terminology - and
I'm no Gnus nOOb ... I just sometimes feel like it..

Now to figure out where .emacs.d/Mail is coming from.

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Adam Sjøgren]

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:29:36 +0100, Richard wrote:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:46:44 +0100, Richard wrote:
 
>>>>> So what format? Maildir?
 
>>>> No, that would be nnmaildir.
 
>>> nnmaildir is a format? I thought it was a back end that fed on Maildir?
>>> Possibly silly wording issues only. I dont know at times.
 
>> Yes, the backend that uses the Maildir format is nnmaildir; that was
>> what I was trying to say.

> So the format *was* Maildir.

The format of what? The format used by nnml is surely is not Maildir. If
you want to access something in the Maildir format, you should use
nnmaildir. Which is what I was trying to say, and what I - frankly -
thought we agreed on. I guess not.

[...]

>> You must have configured something else to point to ~/.emacs.d/Mail.
>> Perhaps your archive method?
 
>> I think you are staring at one thing in your configuration and ignoring
>> all the other stuff, which might actually the cause of what you are
>> seeing :-)

> What you see is there is my nnml config. I have nothing else.

You could be missing something ;-)

[...]

> Nothing else nnml in my init.el or my custom.el.

So nothing in your entire Emacs configuration mentions ~/.emacs.d/ or
~/.emacs.d/Mail?


  Best regards,

    Adam

-- 
 "Här kommer rädslan, gamle vän                               Adam Sjøgren
  När alla fjärilar i magen vaknar upp                   asjo@koldfront.dk
  Viskar välkommen hem"

Re: read mail in mbox files

[ernest]

On 18 Gen, 15:48, pmli...@free.fr (Peter Münster) wrote:
> ernest <nfdi...@gmail.com> writes:
> > If I understand correctly, this will copy the "spool" files in ~/.mail
> > to ~/Mail, and leave everything in ~/.mail unchanged. This is not
> > exactly what I wanted though.
>
> > The idea is that mbox being an open format one would say it
> > should be possible to use the same mailboxes with different MUAs,
> > for instance mutt and gnus, at the same time (maybe not
> > simultaneously, ok, but you get the idea). In theory it should be
> > easy, but in practice it is not.
>
> No problem if you don't use the 2 MUAs simultaneously and you don't use
> the incoming spools. The only problem with Gnus is the locking, that's
> why it uses some "movemail" program that locks correctly and saves the
> incoming email somewhere at $HOME.
>
> At least 2 options:
>
> 1.)
> /var/mail/user   ->   ~/.mail/*.spool  with procmail
> ~/.mail/*.spool  ->   ~/Mail/*         with Gnus
> Managing ~/Mail/* with Gnus or mutt, but not at the same time.
>
> 2.) Use maildir: no locking problems.
> /var/mail/user   ->   ~/Mail/...       with procmail
> Managing ~/Mail/... with Gnus or mutt, or both at the same time!

Ah, I think I finally got it!
First, I switched to maildir. Then I put this in .gnus.el:

(setq gnus-select-method	'(nnnil ""))
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
      '((nnmaildir "" (directory "~/Mail/"))))

Started gnus, hit L, and the maildir folders appeared right there.
Still need some adjustments, but I'm definitely on the right track
:)
Thanks to everyone.

Cheers,
Ernest

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Peter Münster]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> Now to figure out where .emacs.d/Mail is coming from.

Start first with "emacs -Q", so no site configuration file will be
loaded. Then you go on loading your configuration files one by one and
check when the value of nnml-directory changes.
-- 
Peter Münster

Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Glyn Millington]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:51:54 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>
>>> Why is this a "spool" directory?
>>
>>> The word "spool" is throwing me. I thought "spool" meant it was
>>> spooled to you and then stored in a backend .. like nnml.
>> A "(news)spool" in news-related terms is usually where the articles
>> are stored in a newsserver (the meaning used here).
>> A mail-spool is usually where mail is stored locally until the user
>> fetches it (/var/mail or /var/spool/mail).
>> In the documentation nnml is described as the backend that most
>> closely resembles a newsspool, so that is probably where the choice
>> of word comes from. And perhaps also some of the confusion.
>
> I think in the context it's incorrect but wouldnt put my mortgage on
> it ...
>
> nnml-directory is not a spool really : the var/spool source is.
>
> And checking values now, I see, and amazingly confusing, that
>
> ,----
> | Its value is "~/.emacs.d/Mail/archive"
> `----
>
> How I dont know as I set
>
>   (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")
>
> bah ;) I need to start all over again ...

Hi Richard,

Here's a snip from my .gnus file.  It may be totally irrelevant, becasue
I have een smewhat confused by this discussion!! - but it may help ;-)


--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;,----
;| MAIL SETTINGS AND MAIL SORTING ---------------------------------------------
;`----

; nnml is, as you know a mail backend - the nnml (I wonder if nnml stand
; for Not NorMaL) format is what results when gnus grabs mail from the
; two mail sources below. I use getmail to dump all my mail into
; /home/glyn/Mail/inbox; system mail goes to /var/spool/mail/glyn.  gnus
; grabs mail from both sources, I assume transmogrifies it by elisp-magic
; into nnml format, and then shoves it through my fancy-splitting
; set-up. (Just a fraction of that here!) I read the mail from the groups
; created by the fancy splitting - SLACKLIST, FREEBSD, FVWM etc etc

(setq 
       gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))
       mail-sources '((file :path "/home/glyn/Mail/inbox")
                      (file :path "/var/spool/mail/glyn")))

(setq nnmail-split-methods 'nnmail-split-fancy
        nnmail-split-fancy
      '(|

; system mail from Charlie Root
       (from ".*root@millingtons.org" "SYSTEM")
; diary entries
       ("Subject"  ".*Diary" "DIARY")


; Spam rejection

;       ("Subject"  ".*" "spam")
        ("Subject"  ".*lottery" "spam")
	("Subject"  ".*LOTTERY" "spam")
	("Subject"  ".*BEQUEST" "spam")
	("Subject"  ".*BALLOT" "spam")
	("Subject"  ".*NatWest" "spam")
	("Subject"  ".*OFFICE" "spam")
	("Subject"  ".*inches" "spam")
	("Subject"  ".*FUND" "spam")
	       
; linux etc Mailing lists.
        (any  ".*slackware-ot" "SLACKLIST")
	(any ".*slackware@mailman.*" "SLACKLIST")
        (any ".*pkg-annc-request.*" "SLACKLIST")
        (any ".*security@slackware.com" "SLACKLIST")
	; (any ".*freebsd.*" "FREEBSD")
        (any ".*FreshPorts.org" "FREEBSD")
        (any ".*fvwm\.org" "FVWM")
        (any ".*muse-el-discuss.*" "MUSE")
        (any ".*Facebook.*" "FACEBOOK")
        (any ".*spiked-central" "SPIKED")
;;catch the rest
"OTHER"))

--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

atb


Glyn

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:

> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:29:36 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:46:44 +0100, Richard wrote:
>
>>>>>> So what format? Maildir?
>
>>>>> No, that would be nnmaildir.
>
>>>> nnmaildir is a format? I thought it was a back end that fed on Maildir?
>>>> Possibly silly wording issues only. I dont know at times.
>
>>> Yes, the backend that uses the Maildir format is nnmaildir; that was
>>> what I was trying to say.
>
>> So the format *was* Maildir.
>
> The format of what? The format used by nnml is surely is not Maildir. If
> you want to access something in the Maildir format, you should use
> nnmaildir. Which is what I was trying to say, and what I - frankly -
> thought we agreed on. I guess not.

Aha : that was a misread. I thought you were offering nnmaildir as
another option.

>>> You must have configured something else to point to ~/.emacs.d/Mail.
>>> Perhaps your archive method?
>
>>> I think you are staring at one thing in your configuration and ignoring
>>> all the other stuff, which might actually the cause of what you are
>>> seeing :-)
>
>> What you see is there is my nnml config. I have nothing else.
>
> You could be missing something ;-)
>
> [...]
>
>> Nothing else nnml in my init.el or my custom.el.
>
> So nothing in your entire Emacs configuration mentions ~/.emacs.d/ or
> ~/.emacs.d/Mail?
>

Nothing with regard to nnml ...

Maybe I am being overly optimistic to think that setting nnml-directory
to ~/Mail is enough to ensure that nnml is in , err, ~/Mail ;)

When its working perfectly I'll come back ..

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

Glyn Millington <wistanswick@linuxmail.org> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:51:54 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is this a "spool" directory?
>>>
>>>> The word "spool" is throwing me. I thought "spool" meant it was
>>>> spooled to you and then stored in a backend .. like nnml.
>>> A "(news)spool" in news-related terms is usually where the articles
>>> are stored in a newsserver (the meaning used here).
>>> A mail-spool is usually where mail is stored locally until the user
>>> fetches it (/var/mail or /var/spool/mail).
>>> In the documentation nnml is described as the backend that most
>>> closely resembles a newsspool, so that is probably where the choice
>>> of word comes from. And perhaps also some of the confusion.
>>
>> I think in the context it's incorrect but wouldnt put my mortgage on
>> it ...
>>
>> nnml-directory is not a spool really : the var/spool source is.
>>
>> And checking values now, I see, and amazingly confusing, that
>>
>> ,----
>> | Its value is "~/.emacs.d/Mail/archive"
>> `----
>>
>> How I dont know as I set
>>
>>   (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")
>>
>> bah ;) I need to start all over again ...
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Here's a snip from my .gnus file.  It may be totally irrelevant, becasue
> I have een smewhat confused by this discussion!! - but it may help ;-)
>
>
>
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> ;,----
> ;| MAIL SETTINGS AND MAIL SORTING ---------------------------------------------
> ;`----
>
> ; nnml is, as you know a mail backend - the nnml (I wonder if nnml stand
> ; for Not NorMaL) format is what results when gnus grabs mail from the
> ; two mail sources below. I use getmail to dump all my mail into
> ; /home/glyn/Mail/inbox; system mail goes to /var/spool/mail/glyn.  gnus
> ; grabs mail from both sources, I assume transmogrifies it by elisp-magic
> ; into nnml format, and then shoves it through my fancy-splitting
> ; set-up. (Just a fraction of that here!) I read the mail from the groups
> ; created by the fancy splitting - SLACKLIST, FREEBSD, FVWM etc etc
>
> (setq 
>        gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml ""))
>        mail-sources '((file :path "/home/glyn/Mail/inbox")
>                       (file :path "/var/spool/mail/glyn")))
>


Thanks for the examples. its amazing how many different ways people get
this going.

My "dummy" question of the minute here is:-

mail-sources : how does nnml know its got control of them? What about
other mail backends?

The docs say the mail *backends* look there.

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Leonidas Tsampros]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> Gary <gnus@garydjones.name> writes:
>
>> Funny. I didn't see the OP. Anyway...
>>
>> Richard Riley wrote:
>>> ernest <nfdisco@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> This is my setup: I use fetchmail to get mail from
>>>> different POP/IMAP servers, then split the incoming
>>>> mail with procmail into different mbox files in ~/Mail.
>>>> What I'd like is gnus to work directly on these mbox
>>>> files. Is this possible? What backend do I need?
>>>> I'd say I don't even want a backend, because I don't
>>>> want to copy mail anywhere!
>>
>>> You're not alone! This is *probably* the nnml backend.
>>>
>>>    (setq gnus-select-method '(nnml "nnml"))
>>>
>>> That said I dont know for sure ;)
>>
>> I asked something similar before, but never really got anything that
>> worked so asked on the other gnus list (basically, the dev
>> list). Leonidas Tsampros said the following:
>>
>> ,----[ Leonidas Tsampros ]
>> | My primary select methos is a local university nntp server we have and
>> | as the secondary methods I have the following:
>> |
>> | (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")
>> |                                       (nnimap "10.6.0.20")))
>> |
>> | Then I have these in my .conf:
>> |
>> | (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail.Gnus")
>> | (setq mail-source-delete-incoming t)
>> |
>> | (setq mail-sources '((directory :path "~/Mail"
>> |                                 :suffix "")))
>> |
>> | So, Emacs now reads all Mail on all mboxes under ~/Mail, and 'ingests'
>> | them into the nnml backend which is under "~/Mail.Gnus".  Now at this
>> | point and in order to emulate procmail's behaviour, I use fancy
>> | splitting:
>> |
>> | ;; fancy mail splitting
>> | (setq nnmail-resplit-incoming t)
>> | (setq nnmail-split-methods 'nnmail-split-fancy)
>> | (setq nnmail-split-fancy
>> |       '(|
>> |        ("list-id" "ding\\.gnus\\.org" "mail.gnus.ding")))
>> `----
>>
>> But, rather embarassingly, I haven't had time to try it out yet.
>>
>>> But a point : despite using Gnus for a few years now I am not clear
>>> on what "incoming mail" means in the context.  Possibly it looks in
>>> /var/spool/mail. But since your mail is already there, I dunno.
>>
>> Does the above help, Richard?
>
> Yes & No ;(
>
> It doesnt use spam-split.
>
> But it DOES explain the "incoming" and "nnml" backend better!
>
> Had it mentioned how and why ~/Mail got its mail (system mail) all the
> better. But a good set up.
>

Previously I was using a combination of fetchmail feeding my postfix
and postfix was feeding procmail which was doing splitting to different
mbox files under ~/Mail. Then, and as shown above, I have set
mail-sources to point there (~/Mail). Then Gnus takes all the messages
from there and 'ingests' them into the nnml backend I use.

I read your other questions on this thread, but I cannot answer what
happens in case you have different mail backends concurrently. Since one
can have multiple mail backends through secondary select methods and
also multiple mail-sources (you can see the relevant manual section),
this is an important question. I'm confused now!

Also, please note that the mail backends in Gnus represent how mails and
other metadata about them (marks/headers etc) are stored in the disk for
Gnus consumption. I consider them like different types of warehouse
organisation. You can compare this behavior with other MUAs too, like
Outlook that uses the well known pst files or Kmail (at least some 3.x.x
version I was using for some time) was maintaining some extra files for
metadata per ~/Mail/mbox file.

So in this sense, the MUA is not restricted to only use the plain old
mbox or Maildir format. They are just two popular to store collections
of electronic mail messages (citing wikipedia's article on mbox).

If someone other has more information or sees any error in the above
explanation, feel free to correct me please, as the above are mostly
*MY* POV on how mail works.

>>
>> Potentially I suppose one could do away with procmail, and set
>> mail-sources to /var/spool/mail, and it will end up split into
>
> Thats my current set up.
>
>> ~/Mail.Gnus. @ernest I'd be very happy if you posted the results of
>> whatever you do, as I have a similar current setup to you, and the same
>> desire to read my email in mbox files using gnus.
>
> I'm interested why mbox? You mean existing mbox?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info-gnus-english mailing list
> info-gnus-english@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-gnus-english

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Glyn Millington]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> Glyn Millington <wistanswick@linuxmail.org> writes:
>
>> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>>
>>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:51:54 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why is this a "spool" directory?
>>>>
>>>>> The word "spool" is throwing me. I thought "spool" meant it was
>>>>> spooled to you and then stored in a backend .. like nnml.
>>>> A "(news)spool" in news-related terms is usually where the
>>>> articles are stored in a newsserver (the meaning used here).  A
>>>> mail-spool is usually where mail is stored locally until the user
>>>> fetches it (/var/mail or /var/spool/mail).  In the documentation
>>>> nnml is described as the backend that most closely resembles a
>>>> newsspool, so that is probably where the choice of word comes
>>>> from. And perhaps also some of the confusion.
>>> I think in the context it's incorrect but wouldnt put my mortgage
>>> on it ...
>>> nnml-directory is not a spool really : the var/spool source is.
>>> And checking values now, I see, and amazingly confusing, that
>>> ,---- | Its value is "~/.emacs.d/Mail/archive" `----
>>> How I dont know as I set
>>> (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")
>>> bah ;) I need to start all over again ...
>> Hi Richard,
>> Here's a snip from my .gnus file.  It may be totally irrelevant,
>> becasue I have een smewhat confused by this discussion!! - but it
>> may help ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> ;,---- ;| MAIL SETTINGS AND MAIL SORTING
>> --------------------------------------------- ;`----
>> ; nnml is, as you know a mail backend - the nnml (I wonder if nnml
>> stand ; for Not NorMaL) format is what results when gnus grabs mail
>> from the ; two mail sources below. I use getmail to dump all my mail
>> into ; /home/glyn/Mail/inbox; system mail goes to
>> /var/spool/mail/glyn.  gnus ; grabs mail from both sources, I assume
>> transmogrifies it by elisp-magic ; into nnml format, and then shoves
>> it through my fancy-splitting ; set-up. (Just a fraction of that
>> here!) I read the mail from the groups ; created by the fancy
>> splitting - SLACKLIST, FREEBSD, FVWM etc etc
>> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")) mail-sources
>> ((file :path "/home/glyn/Mail/inbox") (file :path
>> "/var/spool/mail/glyn")))
>>
>
>
> Thanks for the examples. its amazing how many different ways people
> get this going.
>
> My "dummy" question of the minute here is:-
>
> mail-sources : how does nnml know its got control of them? What about
> other mail backends?

I don't use any other mail backends.  Are you wanting to use more than
one?  


atb


Glyn

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

Glyn Millington <wistanswick@linuxmail.org> writes:

> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>
>> Glyn Millington <wistanswick@linuxmail.org> writes:
>>
>>> Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 15:51:54 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why is this a "spool" directory?
>>>>>
>>>>>> The word "spool" is throwing me. I thought "spool" meant it was
>>>>>> spooled to you and then stored in a backend .. like nnml.
>>>>> A "(news)spool" in news-related terms is usually where the
>>>>> articles are stored in a newsserver (the meaning used here).  A
>>>>> mail-spool is usually where mail is stored locally until the user
>>>>> fetches it (/var/mail or /var/spool/mail).  In the documentation
>>>>> nnml is described as the backend that most closely resembles a
>>>>> newsspool, so that is probably where the choice of word comes
>>>>> from. And perhaps also some of the confusion.
>>>> I think in the context it's incorrect but wouldnt put my mortgage
>>>> on it ...
>>>> nnml-directory is not a spool really : the var/spool source is.
>>>> And checking values now, I see, and amazingly confusing, that
>>>> ,---- | Its value is "~/.emacs.d/Mail/archive" `----
>>>> How I dont know as I set
>>>> (setq nnml-directory "~/Mail")
>>>> bah ;) I need to start all over again ...
>>> Hi Richard,
>>> Here's a snip from my .gnus file.  It may be totally irrelevant,
>>> becasue I have een smewhat confused by this discussion!! - but it
>>> may help ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>> ;,---- ;| MAIL SETTINGS AND MAIL SORTING
>>> --------------------------------------------- ;`----
>>> ; nnml is, as you know a mail backend - the nnml (I wonder if nnml
>>> stand ; for Not NorMaL) format is what results when gnus grabs mail
>>> from the ; two mail sources below. I use getmail to dump all my mail
>>> into ; /home/glyn/Mail/inbox; system mail goes to
>>> /var/spool/mail/glyn.  gnus ; grabs mail from both sources, I assume
>>> transmogrifies it by elisp-magic ; into nnml format, and then shoves
>>> it through my fancy-splitting ; set-up. (Just a fraction of that
>>> here!) I read the mail from the groups ; created by the fancy
>>> splitting - SLACKLIST, FREEBSD, FVWM etc etc
>>> (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nnml "")) mail-sources
>>> ((file :path "/home/glyn/Mail/inbox") (file :path
>>> "/var/spool/mail/glyn")))
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the examples. its amazing how many different ways people
>> get this going.
>>
>> My "dummy" question of the minute here is:-
>>
>> mail-sources : how does nnml know its got control of them? What about
>> other mail backends?
>
> I don't use any other mail backends.  Are you wanting to use more than
> one?  
>

I do : nnml and nnimap.

Maybe not a good idea. But somehow, in a galaxy far far away, I was
under the impression that  nnml was the easiest way to get local system
email (root/cron jobs etc). The rest I sync with gmail via offlineimap.

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 19:29:36 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>
>>> asjo@koldfront.dk (Adam Sjøgren) writes:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 18:46:44 +0100, Richard wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> So what format? Maildir?
>>
>>>>>> No, that would be nnmaildir.
>>
>>>>> nnmaildir is a format? I thought it was a back end that fed on Maildir?
>>>>> Possibly silly wording issues only. I dont know at times.
>>
>>>> Yes, the backend that uses the Maildir format is nnmaildir; that was
>>>> what I was trying to say.
>>
>>> So the format *was* Maildir.
>>
>> The format of what? The format used by nnml is surely is not Maildir. If
>> you want to access something in the Maildir format, you should use
>> nnmaildir. Which is what I was trying to say, and what I - frankly -
>> thought we agreed on. I guess not.
>
> Aha : that was a misread. I thought you were offering nnmaildir as
> another option.
>
>>>> You must have configured something else to point to ~/.emacs.d/Mail.
>>>> Perhaps your archive method?
>>
>>>> I think you are staring at one thing in your configuration and ignoring
>>>> all the other stuff, which might actually the cause of what you are
>>>> seeing :-)
>>
>>> What you see is there is my nnml config. I have nothing else.
>>
>> You could be missing something ;-)
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Nothing else nnml in my init.el or my custom.el.
>>
>> So nothing in your entire Emacs configuration mentions ~/.emacs.d/ or
>> ~/.emacs.d/Mail?
>>
>
> Nothing with regard to nnml ...
>
> Maybe I am being overly optimistic to think that setting nnml-directory
> to ~/Mail is enough to ensure that nnml is in , err, ~/Mail ;)
>
> When its working perfectly I'll come back ..
>

problem solved.

gnus-message-archive-method was, as documented, expanded into real
methods in the .newsrc.eld.

gnus-update-message-archive-method was set to t but this does
not alter the archive methods in the newsrc if you alter something like
nnml-directory. I removed the offending parts of the .newsrc.eld by hand
(always hairy) and now have it all "clean as a whistle".

Oh yes, one other typo cause an issue : nndraft-directory works better
than nndrafts-directory ... ;)

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Richard Riley]

Richard Riley <rileyrg@googlemail.com> writes:

> gnus-update-message-archive-method was set to t but this does
> not alter the archive methods in the newsrc if you alter something like
> nnml-directory. I removed the offending parts of the .newsrc.eld by hand
> (always hairy) and now have it all "clean as a whistle".
>
> Oh yes, one other typo cause an issue : nndraft-directory works better
> than nndrafts-directory ... ;)


I spoke too soon. drafts are now defaulting to
~/.emacs.d/drafts/drafts

I removed any nndraft parts of my .newsrc.eld and have 

  (setq nndraft-directory "~/Mail")

in my init. Scuppered once again. Any ideas welcome.

Re: read mail in mbox files

[Gary]

Richard Riley wrote:
> Gary writes:

>> @ernest I'd be very happy if you posted the results of whatever you
>> do, as I have a similar current setup to you, and the same desire to
>> read my email in mbox files using gnus.
>
> I'm interested why mbox? You mean existing mbox?

Basically because yes, I have a lot of existing email in mbox files, and
also because although those files could be split out into maildir format
(there are one or two tools to do this), emails tend to be small and
Windows is rather poor at handling small files, in that each takes up
more space than is necessary (typically 4096 bytes on large discs, these
days) and if you've got a *lot* of them, like in maildir, that's a lot
of wasted space. Really, it's just a preference of mine.